Jews In The Holocaust

[Beetow]

International Holocaust Memorial Day 2022 falls on Thursday, January 27.

Were I a Jew, I would not want the Holocaust remembered because it raises too
many painful questions about the so-called chosen people's popularity with God.

One has to ask, in point of fact there has been more than one rabbi ponder: How is
it that so many of Moses' people were caught up in the Holocaust? Where was God
during all that? Why didn't He step in and do something to protect His chosen
people?
_

 

[B-A-C]

... God has punished the Jews all through the Bible. The were in captivity by the Babylonians, Egyptians, Assyrians and even ruled by the Romans.
When God's people turn away from Him... A great number of them tend to die. 23,000 died in one day because of worshipping a golden calf.

I'm not God obviously, and I don't know the answer... but I do wonder, how many of those Jews had lost their religious roots?
How many were Orthodox Jews? How many were now atheists? How many have become Muslims? How many would have never come to Jesus? I tend to think God was there.
Did God put Hitler where he was? I don't know, but the Bible says he put Pharaoh were he was.

Yes, approximately 7 million died, but Israel wasn't a nation then, It is now, and depending on what source you believe, the current population of Israel is about 9 million.
That is still a lot of people. Some estimates say there are still over 30 million Jews in diaspora.

Perhaps the Jews are better off now than they were before WWII ?

 

[Beetow]

God has punished the Jews all through the Bible.

To find a reason for that one need look no further than Ex 34:6-7, Lev 26:3-38,
Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69. In other words: the Jews, as a people, have
brought quite a bit of misfortune upon themselves in accordance with the covenant
that their ancestors agreed upon with God per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and
Deuteronomy.

A covenant is essentially a contract. Well; if God were to fail to fulfill His end of the
agreement; then He would be in breach of contract; which is not only unethical, but
also uncivil. Long story short: the covenant requires Him to lower the boom on His
people for failure to honor their end of the agreement; and you can see the extent
of the damage for yourself in the scripture references in the above paragraph.

There are numerous blessings that God is contractually obligated to fulfill too; so
the covenant isn't all one-sided; viz: compliance with the covenant accrues
blessings; while breaching the covenant accrues curses.

Anybody who has read the Old Testament can attest that God came down on His
own people quite often for breaching the covenant; and just as often quite cruelly.
The curses that Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69 list are very
disturbing; and when examining them, one cannot help but realize they're reading
a synopsis of the Jews' history.
_

 

[Keithw]

International Holocaust Memorial Day 2022 falls on Thursday, January 27.

Were I a Jew, I would not want the Holocaust remembered because it raises too
many painful questions about the so-called chosen people's popularity with God.

One has to ask, in point of fact there has been more than one rabbi ponder: How is
it that so many of Moses' people were caught up in the Holocaust? Where was God
during all that? Why didn't He step in and do something to protect His chosen
people?
_

The Israelite religion were apostocised before Jesus came. Sending Gods son to his death out of hatred was the last straw--Jesus told them off in Matthew 23 and at verse 38 clearly shows they were cutoff of being Gods chosen, But God is so loving he left the door open to them in verse 39--They must bless the one whom God sent to them. Its been over 1950 years they outright refuse and still await their Messiah. They served a single being God-YHWH(Jehovah)- they served the true God when serving correctly. Never a trinity while serving the true God.
The JW,s voluntereed to go in the concentration camps-They refused to stand on both sides of a war blowing each others heads off. 1John 3:10-12) no slaughtering of brothers) Where the darkness had no problem accomplishing that. They even killed for a mass murderer named Hitler, their own supposed brothers in Christ.

 

[Beetow]

.
The status of God's chosen people has its advantages; but also its disadvantages;
viz: the status of God's chosen people is not something to be proud of; but rather,
something to be afraid of because the covenant's God is not the kind of judge
influenced by favoritism. No; if anything, Moses' people run the risk of being judged
even more severely than Gentiles because of their privileged position and the
insider's knowledge they were given of His likes and dislikes.

• Amos 3:1-2 . . Hear this word that Yhvh has spoken against you, O children of
Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying:
You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you
for all your iniquities. (cf. Luke 12:42-48)

This is an ancient principle illustrated not only in the Jews' history, but also taught
by Christianity.

• Luke 12:47-48 . .That servant who knows his master's will and does not get
ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But
the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten
with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded;
and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be required.
_

 

[Beetow]

FAQ: Do you mean to say there are actually Christians out there believing it
was the Jews' own fault that they were rounded up like cattle, stripped of
their dignity, their property, their wealth, and their possessions, enslaved,
starved, deprived of basic human necessities, tortured, subjected to
Frankenstein medical experiments, worked to death, and gassed, shot, and
incinerated by the millions?

A: If the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God is binding; then
yes; the Jews, as a corporate people, are definitely at fault for what
happened to them.

The covenant obligates Him to protect them from misfortune when they're
compliant with it; but the same time the covenant also obligates God to
lower the boom on them when they're not compliant with it. There's really
no mystery to this: it's all spelled out in black and white at Ex 34:6-7, Lev
26:14-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:15-69. (cf. Deut 29:14-28)

If there is only one good thing to come out of the Holocaust is that it proves
to the world that God is reliable, viz: He can be trusted to honor His
commitments.
_

 

[B-A-C]

No; if anything, Moses' people run the risk of being judged
even more severely than Gentiles because of their privileged position and the
insider's knowledge they were given of His likes and dislikes.

Hmmm.... there is a lot of scripture that might disagree with this. But still, some of Israel will be saved. Not all, but a "remnant".

Rom 9:27; Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE SONS OF ISRAEL BE LIKE THE SAND OF THE SEA, IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED;

( This is a quote of Isa 10:21;22; )

Rom 11:25; For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
Rom 11:26; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, "THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
Rom 11:27; "THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
Rom 11:28; From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
Rom 11:29; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Rom 11:30; For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,

"all" Israel? All of Israel that is the remnant.

 

[Born Again 2004]

To find a reason for that one need look no further than Ex 34:6-7, Lev 26:3-38,
Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69. In other words: the Jews, as a people, have
brought quite a bit of misfortune upon themselves in accordance with the covenant
that their ancestors agreed upon with God per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and
Deuteronomy.

A covenant is essentially a contract. Well; if God were to fail to fulfill His end of the
agreement; then He would be in breach of contract; which is not only unethical, but
also uncivil. Long story short: the covenant requires Him to lower the boom on His
people for failure to honor their end of the agreement; and you can see the extent
of the damage for yourself in the scripture references in the above paragraph.

There are numerous blessings that God is contractually obligated to fulfill too; so
the covenant isn't all one-sided; viz: compliance with the covenant accrues
blessings; while breaching the covenant accrues curses.

Anybody who has read the Old Testament can attest that God came down on His
own people quite often for breaching the covenant; and just as often quite cruelly.
The curses that Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69 list are very
disturbing; and when examining them, one cannot help but realize they're reading
a synopsis of the Jews' history.
_

I think there is a WHOLE lot more to it than that .
So, there is God, the Supreme being, more so than we can contemplate or the Bible reveals to us.

And, there are the Jews.
Who knows; who are we to say.
But, it seems to be clear that God has labeled them His chosen people.

What does that mean, don't know!
But, from scripture: I think it is pretty clear Christians should take care of them, and God is arranging for an everlasting place of importance for them!

 

[Beetow]

FAQ: How can it possibly be that God would cause an event whose collateral
damage led to the deaths of all those other people too besides the Jews?

A: We're not saying God engineered the Holocaust. All we're saying is: He stood by
and did nothing to prevent a number of His own people being taken in it. In other
words: the essential thing that Moses' people brought upon themselves was the
loss of God's providence. I think God took advantage of Hitler's agenda as an
opportunity; viz: a convenient means of throwing His people to the wolves like He
did in the Old Testament with Nebuchadnezzar.

NOTE: It's not all that unusual for Christians to lose out on God's providence too;
and thus end up in hot water themselves.

• 1John 1:6 . . If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the
darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
_

 

[Born Again 2004]

FAQ: How can it possibly be that God would cause an event whose collateral
damage led to the deaths of all those other people too besides the Jews?

A: We're not saying God engineered the Holocaust. All we're saying is: He stood by
and did nothing to prevent a number of His own people being taken in it. In other
words: the essential thing that Moses' people brought upon themselves was the
loss of God's providence. I think God took advantage of Hitler's agenda as an
opportunity; viz: a convenient means of throwing His people to the wolves like He
did in the Old Testament with Nebuchadnezzar.

NOTE: It's not all that unusual for Christians to lose out on God's providence too;
and thus end up in hot water themselves.

• 1John 1:6 . . If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the
darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
_

Simply said: because you don't know God or understand His Universe!

 

[BlessedBeyondBelief]

FAQ: How can it possibly be that God would cause an event whose collateral
damage led to the deaths of all those other people too besides the Jews?

A: We're not saying God engineered the Holocaust. All we're saying is: He stood by
and did nothing to prevent a number of His own people being taken in it. In other
words: the essential thing that Moses' people brought upon themselves was the
loss of God's providence. I think God took advantage of Hitler's agenda as an
opportunity; viz: a convenient means of throwing His people to the wolves like He
did in the Old Testament with Nebuchadnezzar.

NOTE: It's not all that unusual for Christians to lose out on God's providence too;
and thus end up in hot water themselves.

• 1John 1:6 . . If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the
darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
_

Whose to say God didn't step in or the holocaust would've have been a 100 year operation or until the full extinction of the jews?
No one knows. (As horrific as it was)Things can always be worse. We only can judge what has happened but we never see what would or could have happened.

 

[Beetow]

.
FAQ: Supposing there is no one to blame for the loss of Jewish life in the Holocaust
but the Jews themselves? If so; then how many of them would've had to breach the
covenant to put them all in so much danger?

A: It's surprising how few Jews it takes to ruin it for all the rest. For example the
Incident at Ai in the 7th chapter of Joshua. The insubordination of one insignificant
Jewish man-- just one --caused God to stop assisting Joshua's army in battle. As a
result, 36 men were needlessly killed in action; and ultimately capital punishment
was inflicted upon not only the insubordinate man himself, but also his sons and his
daughters. God's accusation? "Israel has sinned" (Josh 7:11)

See that? God didn't accuse the perpetrator; no; He accused Israel. In other words:
in that particular incident; the sin of just one Jew under Joshua's command became
the sin of all the Jews under his command; viz: the whole kit and caboodle-- lock,
stock, and barrel; and Israel could proceed no further with its conquest of Canaan
until the guilty man was executed.

And then there's the case where Saul alone caused a three-year famine, and
another case where David's conduct cost the lives of 70,000.

Another possibility is that the generation caught by the Holocaust, was caught not
only due to their own breaches of the covenant, but also due to breaches
committed by generations preceding them.

• Ex 34:6-7 . . Then Yhvh passed by in front of Moses and proclaimed: Yhvh, Yhvh
God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in loving-kindness
and truth; who keeps loving-kindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity,
transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished: visiting
the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and
fourth generations.

That statement is included in the covenant, so God is morally obligated to honor it
lest He be found in breach of contract. But it just goes to show that sins have a way
of snow-balling from one generation to the next till the snowball is so big that it
triggers an act of God; which is disturbing because it tells me that it's not
impossible that the Jews of today are endangering the Jews of tomorrow by their
current breaches of the covenant-- breaches that according to Ex 34:6-7, God will
by no means sweep under the rug.

Wouldn't it be awful if the next Holocaust took place right inside the Jews' own
homeland? I sincerely believe that Saddam Hussein's SCUDS were a wake-up call.
Next time; incoming missiles just may contain nuclear warheads instead of high
explosives; and many among Jacob's people will be poisoned to death with
radiation instead of pesticide.

(According to stats I found online, the State of Israel has experienced 1,380,053
cases of Covid 19 resulting in 8,243 deaths; and a very large percentage of those
cases are fully vaccinated. Why hasn't their God's covenanted providence been
protecting His people?)

I believe it's okay to pity the Jews per Lam 1:12; but I do not believe it is
appropriate to let them get away with playing the victim all the time; the
meanwhile diverting attention away from their own chronic failure to honor the
covenant in a manner consistent with God's requirements.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
FAQ: If true that the Jews, as a people, brought the Holocaust upon themselves in
accordance with the language of the covenant that their ancestors agreed upon
with God; then why don't they own up to it instead of always going about playing
the victim and acting so indignant?

A: Well; sad to say: the Jewish people, on the whole, are famous for their obtuse
attitudes; not only in the Bible; but in real life too. It's so common and so chronic
that we're forced to conclude that their attitudes are actually quite systemic.
Finding a Jew who will admit they are wrong-- wrong about anything --is like
searching for the Loch Ness monster and the lost city of Atlantis.

The average John Que and Jane Doe Jew is so defensive, so reactive, so stiff
necked, so adamant, so self-righteous, so arrogant, and so infected with a chosen
people superiority complex; that they simply cannot tolerate criticism; not even
criticism coming straight from the mouth of the very God with whom they boast an
elite association; for example:

• Zech 7:11-12 . . But they refused to listen; and they turned a rebellious shoulder;
and they made their ears heavy, not to hear. And they made their heart [as hard]
as a shamir, [in order] not to listen to the Torah and to the words that the Lord of
Hosts sent, through His spirit by the earlier prophets. And there was great anger
from the Lord of Hosts.

• Dan 9:5-6 . .We have sinned and have dealt iniquitously; we have dealt wickedly
and have rebelled, turning away from Your commandments and from Your
ordinances.

• Dan 9:10-11 . .And we have not hearkened to the voice of the Lord our God, to
follow His teachings, which He placed before us by the hand of His servants, the
prophets. And all Israel have transgressed Your teaching, turning away, not
heeding Your voice, and the curse and the oath, which are written in the Law of
Moses, the servant of God, have befallen us, for we have sinned against Him.

Jews have been playing the victim card for decades, and getting away with it too;
so it really riles them whenever somebody dares to suggest that the misfortunes
that have overtaken them down through the years, as well as the problems that
plague them right now, are due to exactly what Daniel and Zechariah said. For
example:

The covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God requires Him to preserve
peace in the land of Israel when His people are compliant. Well; the land has been
in a state of war since the day of its inception in 1948 and nobody is safe over
there; and were Israel not allied with the USA and Britain, I fear the Arab world
would crush it practically overnight.

The covenant also obligates God to restore Israel's borders when they are
compliant. Well; the State of Israel doesn't even have control over the Temple
Mount let alone its covenanted borders.

The covenant also obligates God to provide the State of Israel with abundant rain
when the people are compliant. Well; if not for ground water and desalination,
Israel wouldn't have much of an agriculture. Alas, the historical Jordan River has
been reduced to a toxic trickle of its former self because so much water is pumped
out of it for irrigation
_

 

[Born Again 2004]

.
FAQ: If true that the Jews, as a people, brought the Holocaust upon themselves in
accordance with the language of the covenant that their ancestors agreed upon
with God; then why don't they own up to it instead of always going about playing
the victim and acting so indignant?

A: Well; sad to say: the Jewish people, on the whole, are famous for their obtuse
attitudes; not only in the Bible; but in real life too. It's so common and so chronic
that we're forced to conclude that their attitudes are actually quite systemic.
Finding a Jew who will admit they are wrong-- wrong about anything --is like
searching for the Loch Ness monster and the lost city of Atlantis.

The average John Que and Jane Doe Jew is so defensive, so reactive, so stiff
necked, so adamant, so self-righteous, so arrogant, and so infected with a chosen
people superiority complex; that they simply cannot tolerate criticism; not even
criticism coming straight from the mouth of the very God with whom they boast an
elite association; for example:

• Zech 7:11-12 . . But they refused to listen; and they turned a rebellious shoulder;
and they made their ears heavy, not to hear. And they made their heart [as hard]
as a shamir, [in order] not to listen to the Torah and to the words that the Lord of
Hosts sent, through His spirit by the earlier prophets. And there was great anger
from the Lord of Hosts.

• Dan 9:5-6 . .We have sinned and have dealt iniquitously; we have dealt wickedly
and have rebelled, turning away from Your commandments and from Your
ordinances.

• Dan 9:10-11 . .And we have not hearkened to the voice of the Lord our God, to
follow His teachings, which He placed before us by the hand of His servants, the
prophets. And all Israel have transgressed Your teaching, turning away, not
heeding Your voice, and the curse and the oath, which are written in the Law of
Moses, the servant of God, have befallen us, for we have sinned against Him.

Jews have been playing the victim card for decades, and getting away with it too;
so it really riles them whenever somebody dares to suggest that the misfortunes
that have overtaken them down through the years, as well as the problems that
plague them right now, are due to exactly what Daniel and Zechariah said. For
example:

The covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God requires Him to preserve
peace in the land of Israel when His people are compliant. Well; the land has been
in a state of war since the day of its inception in 1948 and nobody is safe over
there; and were Israel not allied with the USA and Britain, I fear the Arab world
would crush it practically overnight.

The covenant also obligates God to restore Israel's borders when they are
compliant. Well; the State of Israel doesn't even have control over the Temple
Mount let alone its covenanted borders.

The covenant also obligates God to provide the State of Israel with abundant rain
when the people are compliant. Well; if not for ground water and desalination,
Israel wouldn't have much of an agriculture. Alas, the historical Jordan River has
been reduced to a toxic trickle of its former self because so much water is pumped
out of it for irrigation
_

With concerning the relationship between the Jew and God and how we Christians should respond, I think you need to separate the Old Covenant and the New Covenant a bit more!

And also, as far as the Jew , they didn't create the Holocaust , Hitler did!

 

[B-A-C]

then why don't they own up to it instead of always going about playing
the victim and acting so indignant?

Rom 11:25; For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
Rom 11:26; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, "THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."

It seems God Himself has hardened their hearts, at least for a while.

A: It's surprising how few Jews it takes to ruin it for all the rest. For example the
Incident at Ai in the 7th chapter of Joshua. The insubordination of one insignificant
Jewish man-- just one --caused God to stop assisting Joshua's army in battle. As a
result, 36 men were needlessly killed in action; and ultimately capital punishment

Of course this didn't just happen to the Jews. Sodom and Gomorrah were Gentile cities. (there were no "Jews" per se at this time).
Nineveh was a Gentile city, and Babylon was a Gentile city. The Egyptian chariot drivers that chased the Jews in the Red sea were Gentiles.
The story of Achan, son of Carmi is interesting in many ways. It is interesting that Rahab ( a Gentile of the same time-frame ) was spared when Jericho ( a Gentile city ) fell.

 

[Beetow]

.
NOTE: Desalination is a desperate measure. Israel won't need it when God's
providence takes the reins in that land.

• Isa 35:6-7 . .Water will gush forth in the wilderness and streams in the desert.
The burning sand will become a pool, the thirsty ground bubbling springs. In the
haunts where jackals once lay, grass and reeds and papyrus will grow.

Much of Israel today remains barren desert. When God's providence kicks in, the
whole land of Israel will become arable.

• Isa 35:21-2 . .The desert and the parched land will be glad; the wilderness will
rejoice and blossom. Like the crocus, it will burst into bloom; it will rejoice greatly
and shout for joy. The glory of Lebanon will be given to it, the splendor of Carmel
and Sharon; they will see the glory of The Lord, the excellency of our God.

Lebanon's glory of old was timber; especially cedars (1Kng 4:33). Sharon was
known for its flowers (Song 2:1) and Carmel for its orchards (Isa 33:9). How God
will get timber, flowers, and orchards to flourish in the Negev should be interesting.
_

 

[Reba1]

Orthodox Jews?

are anitchrist as the muslims are


Wasnt about 7,000,000 other persons slaughtered at that time?

 

[Born Again 2004]

.
NOTE: Desalination is a desperate measure. Israel won't need it when God's
providence takes the reins in that land.

• Isa 35:6-7 . .Water will gush forth in the wilderness and streams in the desert.
The burning sand will become a pool, the thirsty ground bubbling springs. In the
haunts where jackals once lay, grass and reeds and papyrus will grow.

Much of Israel today remains barren desert. When God's providence kicks in, the
whole land of Israel will become arable.

• Isa 35:21-2 . .The desert and the parched land will be glad; the wilderness will
rejoice and blossom. Like the crocus, it will burst into bloom; it will rejoice greatly
and shout for joy. The glory of Lebanon will be given to it, the splendor of Carmel
and Sharon; they will see the glory of The Lord, the excellency of our God.

Lebanon's glory of old was timber; especially cedars (1Kng 4:33). Sharon was
known for its flowers (Song 2:1) and Carmel for its orchards (Isa 33:9). How God
will get timber, flowers, and orchards to flourish in the Negev should be interesting.
_

You seem not understand or respect God's character or Perfection!

 

[Beetow]

.
A number of observant Jews sincerely believe that the deaths of six million of their
fellows via German atrocities during the second world war satisfied certain
teachings and predictions in the 53rd chapter of Isaiah's prophecy. A rabbinic
interpretation of that chapter proposes, in so many words, that the fate of God's
people at the hands of Hitler's minions accomplished the salvation of the world.

The interpretation is a bit involved so I won't go into it here; but suffice to say that
the interpretation provides, for some, the only rational explanation as to why God
stood by and did nothing to prevent so many of His own people from being rounded
up like cattle, stripped of their dignity, their property, their wealth, and their
possessions, enslaved, starved, malnourished, deprived of basic human necessities,
tortured, subjected to Frankenstein medical experiments, worked to death, and
gassed, shot, and incinerated by the millions by Nazi mad men.

The error of that interpretation is so obvious that it's almost below me to point it
out; to wit: Judaism regards human sacrifice as a breach of the covenant that
Moses' people agreed upon with God; and also sincerely believes that human
sacrifice is an abomination.

There are astute Bible scholars of the opinion that the Jewish genocide of the last
century was only a taste of one to come in the future when a super powerful
political figure, known to just about everybody as the anti-Christ, will target God's
people with another mass extinction. They say his won't be confined to Europe like
the last one, but will encompass the entire globe so that Jews won't be safe
anywhere on the planet.

Those scholars also believe that the present State of Israel isn't permanent; but
that it will be conquered and the Jews lose control of their homeland all over again.
I don't know for myself whether those scholars are right, but if they are, then it
would appear that the future of God's people at this point in time is looking mighty
grim, to say the least.
_

 

[Reba1]

Do the jewish people/leaders have control of Jerusalem? Do they have control of temple mount? Yet many say they have control of their home land.