Jesus Christ-the God of the Old Testament

[judge not]

The voice in the Garden of Eden talking to Adam and Eve was none other than Jesus of the New Testament I read.
He was also the voice from the burning bush speaking to Moses.
And when God appeared to people in the OT manifested as a man it was Jesus Christ.
I didn't realize this in my early Bible reading days. The Old Testament God sounded authoritative and ruthless at times condemning people to extinction in a rage of fury.against their sins. Jesus seemed just the opposite with His message of love and mercy. Like good cop, bad cop.
Do you agree Jesus was the one in the Old Testament that rained down plagues and fired lightning at the evil ones? Destroying the world with the flood.
And then Jesus in the New Testament seems to have a different character of love, peace, giving, healing and sacrificing.

Do you think they are the one and the same?

 

[B-A-C]

Exod 3:14; God told Moses he was "I am"
John 8:58; Jesus said he was "I am".

Rev 21:6; God says he is the alpha and omega.
Rev 1:8; Jesus says he is the alpha and omega.

Gen 1:1; God created the heavens and earth.
John 1:3; Jesus created everything.

They are the same God.

Heb 13:8; Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

 

[B-A-C]

if all you knew about Jesus was...
He said he would tell some people who thought they were Christians " depart from me, I never knew you".
that He called the Pharisee's a brood of vipers.
That He drove the money changers from the temple with a whip.
That He said " wide is the path to destruction, narrow is the path to eternal life".
That He said some people will perish and burn in anguish for eternity.
That He said it would be better for Sodom and Gomorrah than for some people .

Would you think he was a good cop or a bad cop?

Do you think world disasters of modern times are caused by a different God than the God of the Bible?

 

[farout]

I am not sure I agree with you, it could have just as easily been the Holy Father could it not? I feel it was the Holy Father at the burning bush because Moses could not look upon the bush, and he had to have a mask on his face when he came down. Other places in the Old Testament people actually looked upon the represenative of God, which whould seem to be Christ in my opinion.

 

[judge not]

if all you knew about Jesus was...
He said he would tell some people who thought they were Christians " depart from me, I never knew you".
that He called the Pharisee's a brood of vipers.
That He drove the money changers from the temple with a whip.
That He said " wide is the path to destruction, narrow is the path to eternal life".
That He said some people will perish and burn in anguish for eternity.
That He said it would be better for Sodom and Gomorrah than for some people .

Would you think he was a good cop or a bad cop?

Do you think world disasters of modern times are caused by a different God than the God of the Bible?

I think He would be a fair cop, but the same cop as in the OT
He is talking about disrespect and non repentance from sin-the same character as in the OT

 

[judge not]

I am not sure I agree with you, it could have just as easily been the Holy Father could it not? I feel it was the Holy Father at the burning bush because Moses could not look upon the bush, and he had to have a mask on his face when he came down. Other places in the Old Testament people actually looked upon the represenative of God, which whould seem to be Christ in my opinion.

I thought so also. But then I read John 5:37 - " And the Father Himself, who sent me, has testified of me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form "

 

[DHC]

Hello all.

Many times people saw God in the Old Testament, Jacob even wrestled with God!

God the Father cannot be seen.

Jesus Christ is the one in the visions of Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekial, e.t.c.

Jesus Christ is the physical manifestation of God in both the Old and New Testaments.

The prophets always describe Jesus as one like the son of a God or a son of man.

The kingdom that mankind exists within and the kingdom to come, are the kingdoms given to Jesus Christ by the Father.

 

[clark thompson]

Jesus is God, it is that simple.

 

[james1523]

The Person manifested in the old Testament was not Jesus Christ.
Strictly speaking, Jesus Christ did not exist until He was born of the Virgin Mary.
Jesus Christ is the infinite and timeless God constrained to finite and time-bound humanity.
Before Jesus Christ was born, God was not constrained to humanity.

However the old testament contains many references and types pointing to Christ.

If the one in the Old Testament is not Jesus Christ, then who is it? Of course it is God. But remember that man's form is a copy of God's, both inward and outward, because mankind was made in His image.
So it is no surprise that the form of God in the old testament should look like a man.
But this man is not Jesus Christ, not until Jesus was born from the Virgin Mary.

The important thing to realize is that although God is Trinity, when we look at God we only see one Person. God is 3, yet One. To say otherwise is Tri-Theism, a pagan 3-god deity concept. Only pagan religions represent God as more than one visible person. But God has never visibly revealed or manifested Himself to anyone in either old or new testament, as more than 1 person.
If anyone saw God's form in the old testament, they were looking at the Father, Son, and Spirit, all three, in one.
Jesus Christ is the embodiment of the complete Trinity, Father, Son, and Spirit, in human flesh not merely just the Son (Col 2:9).

 

[farout]

The Person manifested in the old Testament was not Jesus Christ.
Strictly speaking, Jesus Christ did not exist until He was born of the Virgin Mary.
Jesus Christ is the infinite and timeless God constrained to finite and time-bound humanity.
Before Jesus Christ was born, God was not constrained to humanity.

However the old testament contains many references and types pointing to Christ.

If the one in the Old Testament is not Jesus Christ, then who is it? Of course it is God. But remember that man's form is a copy of God's, both inward and outward, because mankind was made in His image.
So it is no surprise that the form of God in the old testament should look like a man.
But this man is not Jesus Christ, not until Jesus was born from the Virgin Mary.

The important thing to realize is that although God is Trinity, when we look at God we only see one Person. God is 3, yet One. To say otherwise is Tri-Theism, a pagan 3-god deity concept. Only pagan religions represent God as more than one visible person. But God has never visibly revealed or manifested Himself to anyone in either old or new testament, as more than 1 person.
If anyone saw God's form in the old testament, they were looking at the Father, Son, and Spirit, all three, in one.
Jesus Christ is the embodiment of the complete Trinity, Father, Son, and Spirit, in human flesh not merely just the Son (Col 2:9).

James: Colossians chapter1. Makes it very clear Jesus was indeed involved with creation, so He was in existance before being concieved. It's easy to misunderstand that Jesus was always and the T has always been. That would be like you without having a life sorta to speak of. But I doubt anyone can fully explane how the God head really is, because we are so limited in our understanding.

 

[DHC]

But God has never visibly revealed or manifested Himself to anyone in either old or new testament, as more than 1 person.

Hello James.

What do you make of the following then.

Matthew 3
16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens
were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

There are three distinct entities in the verses above.

God the Father utters, "This is my beloved Son...".
The Spirit of God descending as a dove, the Holy Spirit.
Of course we have Jesus Christ the Son in the water.

All three divine persons are present at the same instance.

 

[james1523]

Hello James.

What do you make of the following then.

Matthew 3
16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens
were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

There are three distinct entities in the verses above.

God the Father utters, "This is my beloved Son...".
The Spirit of God descending as a dove, the Holy Spirit.
Of course we have Jesus Christ the Son in the water.

All three divine persons are present at the same instance.

Hello DHC,

Yes they are all present but there is only one visible person. God has never visibly manifested Himself in more than one person. Because He is One God. All the pagan religions worship more than 1 god and their gods are visibly more than one because they are nothing more than exalted human beings, animals or demons. When we come to God we only deal with one person - Christ. If we deal only with the Spirit we are New Age, if only with the Father we are Muslim or Jewish. If only 1, 2 or 3 as separate beings we are oneness, bitheist or tritheist not Trinitarian. Jesus is the only way to the true God because He is the true God (Father, Son and Spirit) in human flesh.

 

[DHC]

Hello DHC,

Yes they are all present but there is only one visible person. God has never visibly manifested Himself in more than one person. Because He is One God. All the pagan religions worship more than 1 god and their gods are visibly more than one because they are nothing more than exalted human beings, animals or demons. When we come to God we only deal with one person - Christ. If we deal only with the Spirit we are New Age, if only with the Father we are Muslim or Jewish. If only 1, 2 or 3 as separate beings we are oneness, bitheist or tritheist not Trinitarian. Jesus is the only way to the true God because He is the true God (Father, Son and Spirit) in human flesh.

Hello James.

Genesis 18
1 And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet
them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

 

[james1523]

Hello James.

Genesis 18
1 And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet
them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

Hello DHC, Genesis 19:1 expressly says they are angels. The Father and the Spirit are never said to be angels or men - to do so would be highly blasphemous. This is said to be the 2 angels who came to Abraham in the heat of the day at Hebron, and the third is the Son of Man. Or , possibly 3 angels - in the Talmud they are said to be Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael. Hebrews 13:2 indicates they were angels.

The Father and the Spirit are said never to assume human form:
John 5:37 says "And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,

But DHC, we do not need old testament scriptures for this - the strongest and most irrefutable proof of what I'm saying, is that God (Father, Son and Spirit) has already come to Earth visibly as (and in) a single Man (Jesus Christ), and did not come as a group of 2 or 3 different people. The virgin Mary did not have triplets. The Father is not a separate human or angelic being, but the Father is in the Son (John 14:11). I am fairly sensitive to this matter because can you believe there was once a pastor's wife who prayed and worshipped to 7 God's, she believed in a 7-inity based on the scripture that refers to "seven spirits of God", and who knows what or how many evil spirits were being invoked, but without understanding that Jesus Christ as a single man, is the visible manifestation and expression of the complete Trinity. If we aim for Christ, we get the whole God, but if we aim for anything or anyone other than Christ, we miss God completely. Why do some call upon and invoke the spirits of numerous saints?, even address the Trinity separately (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) as if there are 3 different gods? Because for them Christ alone is not enough, and they don't realize that Christ is everything, "I AM" , alpha and omega, and "all in all". So they feel it necessary to invoke Christ's mother, or Christ's best friends (apostles), in order to achieve what they want to achieve.

 

[DHC]

Hello DHC, Genesis 19:1 expressly says they are angels. The Father and the Spirit are never said to be angels or men - to do so would be highly blasphemous. This is said to be the 2 angels who came to Abraham in the heat of the day at Hebron, and the third is the Son of Man. Or , possibly 3 angels - in the Talmud they are said to be Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael. Hebrews 13:2 indicates they were angels.

The Father and the Spirit are said never to assume human form:
John 5:37 says "And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,

But DHC, we do not need old testament scriptures for this - the strongest and most irrefutable proof of what I'm saying, is that God (Father, Son and Spirit) has already come to Earth visibly as (and in) a single Man (Jesus Christ), and did not come as a group of 2 or 3 different people. The virgin Mary did not have triplets. The Father is not a separate human or angelic being, but the Father is in the Son (John 14:11). I am fairly sensitive to this matter because can you believe there was once a pastor's wife who prayed and worshipped to 7 God's, she believed in a 7-inity based on the scripture that refers to "seven spirits of God", and who knows what or how many evil spirits were being invoked, but without understanding that Jesus Christ as a single man, is the visible manifestation and expression of the complete Trinity. If we aim for Christ, we get the whole God, but if we aim for anything or anyone other than Christ, we miss God completely. Why do some call upon and invoke the spirits of numerous saints?, even address the Trinity separately (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) as if there are 3 different gods? Because for them Christ alone is not enough, and they don't realize that Christ is everything, "I AM" , alpha and omega, and "all in all". So they feel it necessary to invoke Christ's mother, or Christ's best friends (apostles), in order to achieve what they want to achieve.

Hello James.

Thanks for the reply and sorry there was a delay in my reply.

'Now the Lord appeared to him' (Genesis 18:1)

It does not say James, 'Now an angel(s) appeared to him'.

You quoted from (Genesis 19) to support your argument.

Here is the text from (Genesis 19).

'Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening'

Here the two persons are identified as angels, whereas in (Genesis 18)
the verse states 'the Lord appeared'.

I can only read what the text says James.

 

[brakelite]

Hello James.

Thanks for the reply and sorry there was a delay in my reply.

'Now the Lord appeared to him' (Genesis 18:1)

It does not say James, 'Now an angel(s) appeared to him'.

You quoted from (Genesis 19) to support your argument.

Here is the text from (Genesis 19).

'Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening'

Here the two persons are identified as angels, whereas in (Genesis 18)
the verse states 'the Lord appeared'.

I can only read what the text says James.

So David, are you saying that all three personages represented the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? If this were so, then what of Jesus declaration that no-one has ever seen the Father but the Son?

 

[james1523]

Hello James.

Thanks for the reply and sorry there was a delay in my reply.

'Now the Lord appeared to him' (Genesis 18:1)

It does not say James, 'Now an angel(s) appeared to him'.

You quoted from (Genesis 19) to support your argument.

Here is the text from (Genesis 19).

'Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening'

Here the two persons are identified as angels, whereas in (Genesis 18)
the verse states 'the Lord appeared'.

I can only read what the text says James.

Hello DHC. The Lord appeared in verse 1 and then a further 2 men appeared. That is the Lord plus 2 others (probably angels). No doubt, these 3 men could represent the Lord, the law and the prophets. This is analogous to the 3 men appearing to the disciples at the transfiguration - Jesus, Moses and Elijah. (therefore, "3 men", is not always indicative of the Trinity).

The Father and the Spirit are never said to be men or angels. That would be blasphemy. Only the Son of God became a man, not the Father or the Spirit.

The ultimate proof is that God is visible only in one man Jesus Christ, not 3 men. Therefore my point stands - God only manifests Himself visibly as one person. That is because He is not 3 Gods but 1 God in 3 persons.

 

[Trax]

The voice in the Garden of Eden talking to Adam and Eve was none other than Jesus of the New Testament I read.
He was also the voice from the burning bush speaking to Moses.
And when God appeared to people in the OT manifested as a man it was Jesus Christ.
I didn't realize this in my early Bible reading days. The Old Testament God sounded authoritative and ruthless at times condemning people to extinction in a rage of fury.against their sins. Jesus seemed just the opposite with His message of love and mercy. Like good cop, bad cop.
Do you agree Jesus was the one in the Old Testament that rained down plagues and fired lightning at the evil ones? Destroying the world with the flood.
And then Jesus in the New Testament seems to have a different character of love, peace, giving, healing and sacrificing.

Do you think they are the one and the same?

Living Water

Jeremiah 2:12-13 Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD.
(13) For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them
out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

John 4:7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith
to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.



Rules over the sea:

Psalms 89:8-9 O LORD God of hosts, who is a strong LORD like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about
thee? (9) Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.

Mark 4:37-39 And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was
now full. (38) And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and
say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish? (39) And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and
said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.

Jesus is the Christ, fully man and fully God. The Son of man and the Son of God.John 5:25-27 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall
hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. (26) For as the Father hath life in
himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; (27) And hath given him authority to
execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

In John 5:25-27, Jesus claims both deity and humanity. As God, He'll raise the dead.
As man, He'll judge mankind.