Jehovah's Witnesses: Cult, One True Church, Neither?

[Christ4Ever]

To respect a young brothers desires on another thread, I decided to move this question, here in order to open dialogue with someone who happens to be a Jehovah's Witness. Posing it as a Poll Question, would allow others to include comments if they so desire or if not so bold as to profess their belief in JW openly may yet still be able to make note of this in poll without feeling put upon by the comments that may follow.
C4E

Ephesians 4:15 [15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:

Galatians 1:9 [9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 [3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Matthew 24:23-26 [23] Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not. [24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. [25] Behold, I have told you before. [26] Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.

Acts 4:12 [12] Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Revelation 22:18-19 [18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: [19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

 

[Stickz]

I, personally, view the Jehovah's Witnesses no differently than I do any other "Christian" group. They profess Jesus Christ, and I agree with them myself on certain aspects of the Bible, but do disagree on others. I disagree with them on enough that I could not begin to go to one of their churches.

 

[lawrenceb]

There is so much that could be said about the scriptural errors that this group (the JW's) is fundamentally involved with.

This brief comment is intended to relate with many others on this site which banter about the issue of bible "versions."

The JW's are known to recruit with both the AV (Authorized Version, the King James Bible), and their own copyrighted "version," the NWT (New Word Translation), which was anonymously authored "in-house" by five JW's back in the 1950's.

You can guess which book more fully supports their objectives and which therefore is their book of choice.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I, personally, view the Jehovah's Witnesses no differently than I do any other "Christian" group. They profess Jesus Christ, and I agree with them myself on certain aspects of the Bible, but do disagree on others. I disagree with them on enough that I could not begin to go to one of their churches.

First one must be able to find out how "Jesus Christ" is defined before one can lump them together as a "Christian group". What do they profess Jesus Christ as being? Was He just an enlightened person? Is He the Son of God, but with no divinity attached? Is He God incarnate? So what do we profess Jesus Christ as being? Is it the same Christ Jesus, or another outside of Scripture? Which of cause will lead to many other questions. So, one at a time at least on this thread.

The care necessary, for the believers to avoid deception now a days, is that there are many life preservers in the water, but only one will save you. We can use the same terms and Jesus Christ is one, but are we using the same dictionary? Therein is the problem and one folks would do well to be aware of. As Paul said in 2 Corinthians 11:4 "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]." It is too easy to accept out of love what others have to say, if they use the right words. Believe me, or don't believe me, but believe Holy Spirit through Paul when he wrote Galatians 1:6 "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:" There were Jews who were trying to tie up the Church at Galatia to Jewish Law. How serious was this? Enough so that he repeated one verse over again, to make the point Galatians 1:8-9 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. [9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

So do I take this a bit serious, enough to provide a closer examination, especially if the influence of their words or their claims can be found at TJ? You bet ya I do. Let's bring it to the light of day to examine. But I won't be the one to start explaining their positions. I opened this to allow them to state their case. There are enough Apologists here at TJ to address the question at hand.

If I've replied a bit heavy handed or you may perceive it as such. I apologize brother. It is not intended in that fashion.
YBIC
C4E

 

[Acebopata]

I wouldn't call the Jehovah's Witnesses the one true church any more then I'd call the Roman Catholics or the Missionary Baptist the Lord's one true church. That being said, there are other so called churches such as the Joel Osteen church that one could at the current time refute as the Lord's true church.

There are certain disqualifies to weather a church is pleasing to the Lord. I have a small checklist that must be meet before I can call any church a part of the Lord's work. Here is that list.

A. The church must preach against sin and be doing the Lord's will
B. The church must not be actively participating and or promoting luwed acts, occultic natures, and foul language.
C. The church must be public to visitors and willing to welcome those who wish to join.
D. The church must not commit fraud.
E. The church must worship God, who sent his son to die for the salvation of those who repent and believe
F. The church must not promote idolatry, including blab it and grab it, idolship worship, and national worship.

Now the test is not if the church messes up once or twice on these items, but continually messes up on these issues with no repentance of the mistake.

 

[David777]

Hello Christ4Ever, nice to see you active on TJ.

When ever I hear the cliche "true church" the alarm bells sound.

Witnesses deviate from biblical Christianity in several areas.
I will discuss some of their major doctrinal errors.

First, like all the cults, they deny the Trinity.
They believe there is one God, Jehovah.
Jesus, is actually Michael the Archangel,
the first of God's creation, who became
flesh at the incarnation. After the resurrection,
He returned to heaven as Michael the Archangel.

(1) The Holy Spirit is not God but an active force
much like electricity or fire.

(2) Second, Witnesses deny the bodily resurrection of Christ,
but instead believe He was raised as a spirit and manifested
Himself several times in different materialized bodies.

(3) Third, they deny the existence of hell and eternal punishment,
but believe in total annihilation after death. Only the elite ruling class,
the 144,000, are allowed to go to heaven. The faithful Jehovah's
Witnesses remain unconscious after death till they are resurrected
in the Millennium. Those who are not in the organization are annihilated
after death.

(4) Fourth, Witnesses have a works-oriented salvation. Salvation is not
based upon a relationship with Christ, but found in the organization.
One must serve the society, and depending on one's faithfulness and
absolute obedience, one may be saved.

(5) Fifth, they believe that Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 and established
His throne in heaven. At Armageddon, God will destroy all evil, and abolish
all the world's governments, and establish a new Paradise on earth.

Then the living and resurrected Jehovah's Witnesses will inherit Paradise earth.
The 144,000 mentioned earlier will rule with Jesus. At this time all unbelievers
who have died will be raised (with some exceptions) and will study under the
Witnesses during the Millennium, a period of a thousand years.
Studying with them will be the unbelievers who have survived Armageddon.
After the thousand years, their faith will be tested because God will release
Satan from the abyss. At that point all unbelievers will have to choose between
Satan or Jehovah. Those who reject Jehovah will be annihilated.

 

[Michelle71]

Well, I guess the only real thing I would have in common with the JW's is that there is one true God, who is Jesus' Father and God. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who is actually listed as Jehovah in the Biblical Texts.

Other than that, well, Jesus is not Michael the Arch Angel. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. He was the first of creation from the foundation of the world. He is the right hand of God who He made all things through...and that would include Michael the Arch Angel (who is actually who Jesus uses as the protector of Israel. IMO, Michael the Arch Angel is the top dog in the order of God's faithful angels, and he has command over the legions of angels down the list.)

Dan 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

As far as the 144,000, well those are Jews who are sealed either shortly before, or simutaniously with the 6th seal of Rev. That has nothing to do with the Gentile nations. They are sealed on earth to remain a witness of God. The redeemed in Christ are who will be ruling and reigning with Christ, and that number is much larger than a meager 144,000!

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Jesus will be ruling with a rod of iron, which indicates there will be those left that will not willingly submit with their whole hearts to His Lordship and Salvation of their souls. There has to be someone to rule over...can't see those people being sold out born again Christians.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
Rev 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Vs 29 is talking about the churches, not the 144,000 sealed Jews.

 

[David777]

Of all the cults and distorted Christian church movements the
Jehovah's witnesses are the ones I feel the most empathy for.

They are driven hard by their organization, salvation is
impossible for the JWs unless they conform and obey.

This iron clad obedience is to the JW organization above all.

My faith is in Jesus not a church or organization, so I am
at liberty to choose my place of worship.

There theology is pathetic, not supportable outside
of JW literature. They are prisoners of this cult and
deeply deceived. It pains me when they knock on the door,
no matter how or what I say they refuse correction and leave.

There theology is so simple and wrong and plainly so, I am
surprised that they do not spot the heresies. There level
of devotion to the JW movement is beyond reason. They
are very nice people to meet, polite, friendly and deceived.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Hello Christ4Ever, nice to see you active on TJ.

Thanks brother, but not really me
The Spirit moves me to read certain threads, then to write, pray on it, and finally to reply. not always so quickly!

On this particular thread, I'm still waiting for the individual to step up; "come out of the weeds" so to speak. This can be difficult for them since this site can really be anathema to them in more ways then one.
YBIC
C4E
Proverbs 27:17

 

[Strypes]

They are a mind control cult. Sad but true.

They believe all of Christendom (Methodist, Baptist, and everybody else) are in league with satan. They actually practice (roll play) their rejection of anything you say to them.

I have done a lot of research on this particular cult and one of the first things they want you to do if you study with them is to trick you into denying the Holy Spirit and accept what they call "the faithful and discreet slave" as the sole provider of spiritual "food".. Only through them do you receive "spiritual food at the proper time"... belittling the Holy Spirit to a THING and replacing the Holy Spirit's role in the lives of their followers.

When I began my quest to understand them, I had hopes of finding common ground and to prove they were indeed part of the body of Christ. I was so clueless. Common Ground should have been at Calvary.

Their "jesus" is not Jesus at all. Therefore their God "Jehovah" is not God but an imposter. Their "jehovah" is a false god and mean tyrant who is impossible to please and very demanding of your time and resources.

There is no common ground. They are a very dangerous cult.

 

[JehovahDaughter]

I never really understood this group; but I knew while I was growing up, my parents would always warn me not to open the door and have discussions with them, when I was home alone. I guess I understand why they were so particular about what to do when JWs visited. It is quite easy to indcotrinate young children into pretty much anything. I believe that they just might be like any other cult; however something to admire about them is their persistence; the way they keep going to the same people in the same neighbourhoods to preach what they believe is the gospel, every saturday.

 

[Eddy Fire]

when I was younger than today I did think that because they had a name that sounded like it was a cut above the rest and seemed more respectful to who they call Jehovah, that they might actually be a group who really are christian sort of people.

I later learned that they were were more zealous to get the word they had out and about than other christian groups or churches as I understood them all to be at the time and that they faithfully went door to door trying to tell others about whatever it was they were trying to tell others about and that they put up with a lot of rudeness

so to my ignorant understanding they were at least as good as the rest of them out there
I had friend whose parents were JW's and while they were very nice to me and seemed very relaxed with their sons, the friend I had only served to lead me further astray from any moral and legal standards than I was already going

since then I have visited the JW's salons where they get groomed for the weekend marketing talk and it was an eye opener as to how they go about preparing and instructing their faithful little workers each week

nowadays I will talk to them about the Lord Jesus Christ and they seem to agree a lot but with almost empty agreement as if they are numbed to it or if they have been warned and practiced how to respond to people like me

I always ask them to come around any time and chat about the Lord and the wonders of creation etc but so far none ever have

I do pray and seek the Lord if and when they come doorknocking with a child in tow which they often do - and I ask the Lord to give me seed and truth for that young soul as it may be the only place they ever get it

 

[farout]

JW's are a cult; but theu are sure they are not. They are lost and without Jesus Chhrist. The one thing that tells you that a religion, cult, or whatever.

WHO DO THEY SAY JESUS IS !

When they deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ, and a cult will, then you know what they are. They will use their twisted New World Translation, they call a bible. . Ask then do they have any hope of going to heaven? They have no clue where they are going. The best thing is not to answer the door for them. If you find a Watch Tower, pick it up and put it in the trash.

farout

 

[Boanerges]

When they deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ, and a cult will, then you know what they are. They will use their twisted New World Translation, they call a bible. . Ask then do they have any hope of going to heaven? They have no clue where they are going

Amen x 10! They are a works based religion that has reinvented the Bible into a confused twisted mess. The new world translation was compiled with a Strong's Concordance and little or no knowledge of Greek and Hebrew.
I once had a neighbor who was fairly high up in that organization; he was both well meaning and confused. He told me that the reason they "re-worded" the scriptures in their "translation" so as not to give the wrong impression of what was being said. In other words, they changed the Word of God to say what they believed instead of changing what they believe to it.
These folks (oft called scripture twisters) are very dangerous, and love to pray on young Christians. Some have told me they were sat on a "witness strand", and grilled from every point of view (Baptist, Pentecostal, Non Demom, and etc) so that they could confuse, then convert. If they cannot do the job, they are taught to bring in reinforcements (others with more experience) to corrupt that young believer.

One last thing: they do not just knock on your door out of zeal, they must earn God's acceptance (or so they think).

 

[gglearner]

I used to believe everyone who comes in the name of christ. When I Started reading the bible, holy spirit started showing me true belivers. Thank you God for showing talk jesus website. I am learning so many things from this website. God bless everyone.

 

[spirit1st]

They think JESUS is just a mere angel . Not the begotten Son , our Creator and Creator of all that was ever Created.
they have lowered Him to Much less than God and no more than a Angel.

They just use people.
1Ti_3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh

Heb_2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
This shows no angels going to be in power over the world to come

But our LORD JESUS is . Because He is Creator.

Eph_1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Eph_3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Col_1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Rev_4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

 

[DHC]

[h=3]Isaiah 9:6 (NASB)
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.[/h]

Jesus Christ is God Himself, the very God of the Old Testament.

As Spirit1st quoted in the post above;

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,
whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Creation itself including mankind were created by Jesus and for Jesus, make no mistake!

 

[Boanerges]

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

This one verse derails their whole belief system. Here we see the Father calling the Son "Ho' Theos" or Most High God.

 

[B-A-C]

They qualify as a cult for two reasons. First they deny the deity of Jesus. (They say he isn't God).
Second, they teach Jesus did not rise from the dead in flesh, but spirit only. (see 1 John 4:1-4; ) to see what the Bible says about this.
Also much of their teaching is found in a separate publication "The WatchTower" which of course, is not the Bible.

 

[james1523]

Doctrinal error doesn't qualify a group as being a "cult" in the modern sense of the word. It is to do with their practices. Even a doctrinally correct church can be a cult if it behaves in such a way. Those churches that require pastor's permission to marry, for example. Ignoring the false doctrine for a moment, according to their practice I believe JW are a cult.