Israel was promised a never ending earthly kingdom?/ The Church is promised a home in heaven.?

[Dave M]

Israel as God's chosen people

not sure what you mean by this? we are all chosen by God in whom believes in Jesus. Not all of Israel believe in Jesus, were they chosen? Look at all the pharaies, Jesus called them sons of the devil, were they chosen??

I guess in a sense we can say Israel is God chosen people to bring salvation to all ,as it came to them first, but are not Gentiles chosen as well since we are also offered salvation? God did use Israel to show us the Law and to point the whole OT to Christ.

Now I understand Jesus was Jewish and they chose that race to bring the savior of the world into the world. Making them a chosen race

I think the most important point should be on faith in Jesus as the chosen, and not a skin color, but I do see in the OT God does use that term a lot, so I have to study more to understand it better

 

[B-A-C]

Ruth 1:4; And they took for themselves Moabite women as wives; the name of the one was Orpah, and the name of the other, Ruth. And they lived there about ten years.

Josh 2:1; Then Joshua the son of Nun sent two men as spies secretly from Shittim, saying, “Go, view the land, especially Jericho.” So they went and entered the house of a prostitute whose name was Rahab, and rested there.

 

[complete]

Subject heading:- 'Israel was promised a never ending earthly kingdom?/ The Church is promised a home in heaven.?'

Hello @Dave M,

Redeemed Israel will indeed inhabit the land promised to their forefathers, all of it, and not a part as they do at present, they will be priests unto God among the nations during the millennial reign of the Overcomer with Christ. (Exodus 19:5-6; Revelation 20:1-6; )

* The company which will inhabit the New Jerusalem ('The Bride') which will come out of heaven to the new earth will consist of the Overcomers of faith from all generations who will be resurrected to reign with Christ for 1,000 years (Hebrews 11; Revelation 21-22:5)

* The Church which is the Body of Christ will enjoy their spiritual blessings in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 1:3 & Ephesians 4:12)

* I do find it hard to get my head around the details of end time events, and the order in which things will take place, but I praise God that what matters is that He knows.
* Christ Jesus our risen Lord must reign until all enemies are placed under his feet (1 Corinthians 15:15-28), then God will be all in all,
* Then there will be a new heaven and a new earth wherein dwells righteousness.

That is something to look forward to, isn't it?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Sue D.]

@complete -- are you referring to Israel Now? In the Old Testament Abraham was called out by the Lord God to go to the land of His promising. Canaan.

You're right -- we might not understand the end times events, but God knows all and is in control.

The Church will be gathered up and out of here at some point , meeting Christ in the air and will be with Him from then on. And at some point the 1,000 yr reign of Christ will take place. The Church Will be coming back with Him and rule righteously with Him.

Real eternity begins with the New Jerusalem being brought down by God.

 

[PloughBoy]

"Ruth was a "Moabite" and "Rahab" was a "prostittute"! And both was "Jesus maternal Grandparents" design by GOD. Now that we do know.

 

[Sue D.]

not sure what you mean by this? we are all chosen by God in whom believes in Jesus. Not all of Israel believe in Jesus, were they chosen? Look at all the pharaies, Jesus called them sons of the devil, were they chosen??

I guess in a sense we can say Israel is God chosen people to bring salvation to all ,as it came to them first, but are not Gentiles chosen as well since we are also offered salvation? God did use Israel to show us the Law and to point the whole OT to Christ.

Now I understand Jesus was Jewish and they chose that race to bring the savior of the world into the world. Making them a chosen race

I think the most important point should be on faith in Jesus as the chosen, and not a skin color, but I do see in the OT God does use that term a lot, so I have to study more to understand it better

You're referring to my comment that Israel are God's chosen people. That's going back to Genesis 12: 1 - 4 and then to ch 17: 1-10 or so. Abrams name is changed to Abraham and Sarai changed to Sarah. Abraham and Sara give birth to Isaac and Isaac and his future wife give birth to Jacob and Essau. Jacob proceeds to have 12 sons and one daughter by 4 different wives. Not four wives at the same time, but one dies and then he marries another, etc. At some point, Jacob's name is changed to Israel and the 12 sons become the 12 tribes of Israel. They are referred to as the Children of Israel because they are. And that started way back when God called Abraham to leave his country and go where God showed him -- the land of Canaan. One of the tribes was that of Judah from which Jesus was born -- the Jews.

And, yes, to your other comments.

And, yes, ' faith in Jesus' applies to Everyone. Jews / Gentiles / Everyone.

There's a lady at church who shared that she's part Jewish. Don't know what her maiden name is. She was part of the Lutheran church for a while -- another lady who'd also been at that church was sharing Scripture with her and led her to the Lord. Her Jewishness doesn't really make any difference to her. She had to be born again just like everyone else.

 

[Reba1]

God said the kingdom would be ever lasting. We know David's kingdom ended . To my understanding that eliminates that God was speaking about a earthly or human kingdom. Jesus Christ is King He is the King of kings

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

 

[Reba1]

This point of view comes from a Dispensationalism theology I am learning. The more I learn about Dispensationalism the more I dis-agree with it, seems to have a lot of followers

What point are you referring to?

 

[Dave M]

What point are you referring to?

the title of the thread, not what you said

 

[Reba1]

the title of the thread, not what you said

Thanks

 

[Sue D.]

@Dave M -- you've brought up dispensationalism theology -- simply means that the Bible is divided into various time-periods. Nothing non-Biblical about it.

Let's define a 'dispensation' A divinely appointed order or age -- some go by 7 'orders' innocence, conscience, human government , promise and law.

Other's go by the 'age' of the law of the Old Testament and the 'age' of grace in the New Testament.

Dispensationalism =belief in a system of historical progression , as revealed in the Bible consisting of a series of stages in God's self revelation and plan of salvation.

Dispensational theology deals with an evangelical approach to subjects like Biblical covenants / Israel / the Church. I'm getting this info from some articles I've been looking up.
Take some time to Google 'dispensation' / dispensationalism / dispensational theology. Very good articles.

What is it about dispensationalism that you disagree with. Maybe that's something we could look into more in FB Messenger?!

 

[Dave M]

Sue this thread is about one of the main things I disagree with, maybe we can start here

why do you think this statement is true, I find it false, do you consider the kingdom of God the same thing as the Kingdom of heaven??

"Israel was promised a never ending earthly kingdom?/ The Church is promised a home in heaven.?"

 

[Dave M]

I would agree with the thread topic heading.

why what scripture would you use to support it?

thanks

 

[Sue D.]

@ Dave M

To answer your question -- yes, I believe they are the same thing. That the Kingdom of God is the same thing as the Kingdom of Heaven.

All born again believers are part of the Kingdom of God -- and our future home will be in the Kingdom of heaven.

 

[B-A-C]

To answer your question -- yes, I believe they are the same thing. That the Kingdom of God is the same thing as the Kingdom of Heaven.

All born again believers are part of the Kingdom of God -- and our future home will be in the Kingdom of heaven.

Matt 25:1; "Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins,
Matt 25:11; "Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.'
Matt 25:12; "But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.'

Matt 13:24; Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
Matt 13:29; "But he *said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.
Matt 13:30; 'Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn."

Matt 13:47; "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;
Matt 13:48; and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away.
Matt 13:49; "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,
Matt 13:50; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Not everyone in the kingdom stays in the kingdom.
There are foolish virgins in the kingdom, there are tares in the kingdom, there are bad fish in in the kingdom.

Matt 13:40; "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
Matt 13:41; "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Matt 13:42; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Four parables, and nearly an entire chapter are dedicated to saying not everybody in the kingdom is smart virgin, a good fish, wheat, or a good faithful steward.

 

[Dave M]

Mathew seems to use the kingdom of heaven while the other gospels refer to it as the kingdom of God, some try to divide the two and say one is for Jews and the other is for Gentiles one being a earthly kingdom and the other being a heavenly kingdom for the gentiles, because the gentiles were never promised a earthly kingdom. thats why I asked you that question @Sue D.


Luke 16-16, 17
16. The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the gospel of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.
17. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

Mathew 11-11,13
11. Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet even the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12. From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subject to violence, and the violent lay claim to it.
13. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
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Mathew 13-11,13
11. He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
12. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.
13. This is why I speak to them in parables:

Mark 11
11. He replied, “The mystery of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to those on the outside everything is expressed in parables

Luke 8-10
10. He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that,

 

[Reba1]

The Scriptures tell us exactly what the kingdom of God is.

Mathew 13-11,13
11. He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
12. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.
13. This is why I speak to them in parables:

Mark 11
11. He replied, “The mystery of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to those on the outside everything is expressed in parables

Luke 8-10
10. He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that,


Rom_14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

2000 years ago the Israel was under oppression . They were under the political control of Rome. Rome gave them enough self control to cook them in the pot like the frog. God choose this time to send Jesus , they would not accept His kingdom they wanted a king in a palace. Some one to set on a man made throne. Even when He Himself told them :
Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

2000 years later so many folks are still not willing to accept the simple truth of Rom_14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

We, just as those before want to be physically rescued blinding us to Him .

Mat_6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 

[Sue D.]

@ Dave M. -- your first sentence I'd agree with -- 'some' use Kingdom of heaven and 'some use Kingdom of God. And, yes, it Is / can be confusing.

It might depend on how a person views Israel and the Church.

It might sound like I'm trying to side-step an 'issue' , but , in the long-run -- everyone comes to salvation the same way -- by placing their faith in the sufficiency of the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross. That He is the Son of God.

And, maybe, the parable of the ten virgins -- some of the parables I've never really understood -- but are we ready , spiritually, for Christ to return. Or for our own death. Are we so busy with living life that we 'put off' making a decision For salvation that we're caught unprepared? Do people believe that since their parents are good Christians or that they go to the family church that they can go to heaven on those merits? Shirt-tail salvation.

And, we Can know Now that we Are saved and going to heaven.

 

[Sue D.]

@B -A-C -- aren't you taking away eternal security?

 

[Dave M]

It might depend on how a person views Israel and the Church.

yes indeed , maybe you share how you view them , I would love to here everyone on this thread views. me it is really simple, ...........

Israel was how salvation was brought to all people, and now we are all one flock under the same shepherd, it not about the skin color, it all about faith in Christ. I see no difference in a un-believing Jew, compared to a un-believing Gentile, Nor do I see any difference in a believing Jew compared to a believing gentile.

John 10:16
And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.