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Is Your Hope of Salvation Inspired By a Lost Soul?

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I'd always think that if God knows our beginning and end, our eternity to hell or heaven then why does God asks us to choose between hell and heaven?

Few days ago I came across a controversial news about Jarawa Tribes living in Andaman and Nicobar Islands (province of India). When I searched about them in Youtube, I came to know that they are completely alien people and they have no interaction with people like us. Think about such kind of indigenous tribes. Think about an impossible task of taking the gospel to them!

Who will preach to them and in which language? Who can translate the bible in their language? And how long will it take to achieve this impossible task? Can they understand if we show a movie like 'Passion of Christ' to them? Are they themselves responsible for their way to hell? I asked God, how can they be?

Then God told me "Ask your forefather, Adam?

God knew the beginning and the end and God knew that Adam will disobey and Sin will come from one Man Adam. But creating Sin and spreading to generations was completely choice of Adam himself. God never wanted Adam to disobey Him but He knew Adam will disobey.

Three scriptures come to my mind to convince myself of the greatest gift of salvation

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" (Ephesians 2:8)

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:" (Deuteronomy 30:9)

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." (Romans 10:9)

Our Ticket to heaven is the gift of God which comes by grace through faith and not by our works. Secondly, it is completely upon us to take the choice of reaching heaven or ending up in Hell.

I haven't made sure how much real the hell is! but there is biting and gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire of darkness of darkness.

In Romans 10:9 the word "if" is very personal, it's our independent choice. Two disciples come into my mind when I talk about this two-letter word "if". One is Judas the Iscariot and the other is Peter. Both did deceive Jesus. One by identifying Him for money and the other misidentifying Him for his own life. The former committed suicide and went to hell and the latter waited on the Lord, asked forgiveness and ended up in heaven.

Both of them figured their destiny by their own personal choice and the two-letter strong "if" word made the difference. Both of them heard the same gospel but the former never made a choice or was too late to accept Jesus but the latter recognized "Jesus" as the only Savior and though Peter fell, he rose up and secured his salvation.

During my early days of knowing and accepting Christ as my personal savior, I was very zealous and I was very upset with my Pastor having alter call every two weeks and I would think why this stuff among believers and that too not on Sunday service but on Friday bible study session; but after few months, I understood it's significance only when I backslid. Thanks to God for having such kind of great shepherds to lead the sheep to heaven.

So Today is the day. No matter what you did , how many times you fell, confess your sins and HE will Save You.

Let not Death overtake your hope of salvation.
 
Member
I'd always think that if God knows our beginning and end, our eternity to hell or heaven then why does God asks us to choose between hell and heaven?

Few days ago I came across a controversial news about Jarawa Tribes living in Andaman and Nicobar Islands (province of India). When I searched about them in Youtube, I came to know that they are completely alien people and they have no interaction with people like us. Think about such kind of indigenous tribes. Think about an impossible task of taking the gospel to them!

Who will preach to them and in which language? Who can translate the bible in their language? And how long will it take to achieve this impossible task? Can they understand if we show a movie like 'Passion of Christ' to them? Are they themselves responsible for their way to hell? I asked God, how can they be?

Then God told me "Ask your forefather, Adam?

God knew the beginning and the end and God knew that Adam will disobey and Sin will come from one Man Adam. But creating Sin and spreading to generations was completely choice of Adam himself. God never wanted Adam to disobey Him but He knew Adam will disobey.

Three scriptures come to my mind to convince myself of the greatest gift of salvation

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" (Ephesians 2:8)

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:" (Deuteronomy 30:9)

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." (Romans 10:9)

Our Ticket to heaven is the gift of God which comes by grace through faith and not by our works. Secondly, it is completely upon us to take the choice of reaching heaven or ending up in Hell.

I haven't made sure how much real the hell is! but there is biting and gnashing of teeth in the lake of fire of darkness of darkness.

In Romans 10:9 the word "if" is very personal, it's our independent choice. Two disciples come into my mind when I talk about this two-letter word "if". One is Judas the Iscariot and the other is Peter. Both did deceive Jesus. One by identifying Him for money and the other misidentifying Him for his own life. The former committed suicide and went to hell and the latter waited on the Lord, asked forgiveness and ended up in heaven.

Both of them figured their destiny by their own personal choice and the two-letter strong "if" word made the difference. Both of them heard the same gospel but the former never made a choice or was too late to accept Jesus but the latter recognized "Jesus" as the only Savior and though Peter fell, he rose up and secured his salvation.

During my early days of knowing and accepting Christ as my personal savior, I was very zealous and I was very upset with my Pastor having alter call every two weeks and I would think why this stuff among believers and that too not on Sunday service but on Friday bible study session; but after few months, I understood it's significance only when I backslid. Thanks to God for having such kind of great shepherds to lead the sheep to heaven.

So Today is the day. No matter what you did , how many times you fell, confess your sins and HE will Save You.

Let not Death overtake your hope of salvation.
Interesting post.

There was a book, I think you may still be able to find the unabridged version, called 'The Gospel in the Stars'. Basically it expounds on how even the stars telll the story of creation and salvation. That's how the wise men found the star that they followed to Bethlehem.

All of creation reflects GODs goodness and all creation recognizes HIM.

Romans 1:18-21 (New International Version)

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27949">18</sup> The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27950">19</sup> since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27951">20</sup> For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27952">21</sup> For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.





Those in isolated places can see GOD in HIS creation and choose to worship HIM Even without you going to them.


As an example; When the first white man came to North America they found the 'indians' worshipped a Great Spirit. A one God. Of course being a spiritual people they attributed all natures forces with spirits too but.... a single great spirit..... A King of kings?
 
Member
Interesting post.

There was a book, I think you may still be able to find the unabridged version, called 'The Gospel in the Stars'. Basically it expounds on how even the stars telll the story of creation and salvation. That's how the wise men found the star that they followed to Bethlehem.
There is a DVD called: "The Star of Bethlehem" that explains all the relations of the stars to creation and the gospel.
 
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Member
Interesting post.

There was a book, I think you may still be able to find the unabridged version, called 'The Gospel in the Stars'. Basically it expounds on how even the stars telll the story of creation and salvation. That's how the wise men found the star that they followed to Bethlehem.

There is a DVD called: "The Star of Bethlehem" that explains all the relations of the stars to creation and the gospel.
Thanks I'll look for it
 
Member
My wife has that dvd and its really informative to the nature of the bethlehem star..ive not seen it yet but even the kids found it interesting...Rev
 
Member
Hi Jonahmano, welcome to TalkJesus, so you think God knew Adam and Eve would sin and God knows what everyone is going to do?

Have you considered the concept of freewill, and what happened to Satan! Satan was already in heaven, in fact the bible seams to paint a picture that he was a very prominent and important angel in heaven. He was clearly created perfect, and he had God's favor. But because he was also given freewill, so individuals could "choose" to serve God out of pure love not compulsion, he chose to rebel against God. Furthermore, he also swayed many angels in heaven to follow him in his rebellion against God. He caused a great war in heaven and untold pain and misery on the earth. Remember, Adam and Eve sinned because of the intervention of Satan, and that is why all mankind fell under sin. Do you really think a loving God would allow all this to happen if he could have dealt with just one individual at the beginning?

Also, why did God test Abraham if he knew he would offer up his son, that seams like a pointless test to me, but only if God did not know and wanted to test Abraham's faith.
 
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davy

If God doesn't know our future thoughts and actions, He is not amnscient and therefore cannot be God.
God has already put plans in place because of the decision you and I will make, he already knows.
Why is it that Jesus was appointed Lamb to be slain before time began, if God was not aware of all things?

Hi Jonahmano, welcome to TalkJesus, so you think God knew Adam and Eve would sin and God knows what everyone is going to do?

Have you considered the concept of freewill, and what happened to Satan! Satan was already in heaven, in fact the bible seams to paint a picture that he was a very prominent and important angel in heaven. He was clearly created perfect, and he had God's favor. But because he was also given freewill, so individuals could "choose" to serve God out of pure love not compulsion, he chose to rebel against God. Furthermore, he also swayed many angels in heaven to follow him in his rebellion against God. He caused a great war in heaven and untold pain and misery on the earth. Remember, Adam and Eve sinned because of the intervention of Satan, and that is why all mankind fell under sin. Do you really think a loving God would allow all this to happen if he could have dealt with just one individual at the beginning?

Also, why did God test Abraham if he knew he would offer up his son, that seams like a pointless test to me, but only if God did not know and wanted to test Abraham's faith.
 
Member
Hi Jonahmano, welcome to TalkJesus, so you think God knew Adam and Eve would sin and God knows what everyone is going to do?

Have you considered the concept of freewill, and what happened to Satan! Satan was already in heaven, in fact the bible seams to paint a picture that he was a very prominent and important angel in heaven. He was clearly created perfect, and he had God's favor. But because he was also given freewill, so individuals could "choose" to serve God out of pure love not compulsion, he chose to rebel against God. Furthermore, he also swayed many angels in heaven to follow him in his rebellion against God. He caused a great war in heaven and untold pain and misery on the earth. Remember, Adam and Eve sinned because of the intervention of Satan, and that is why all mankind fell under sin. Do you really think a loving God would allow all this to happen if he could have dealt with just one individual at the beginning?

Also, why did God test Abraham if he knew he would offer up his son, that seams like a pointless test to me, but only if God did not know and wanted to test Abraham's faith.

I too have thought about why God feels the need to test believers if He already knows what they were going to choose but i try to no longer put too much thought about this and many other things concerning the Lord that i don't understand because at end of the day i'm finite and so my mind and the way i think and reason is also finite and God is Infinite. God is omniscient and therefore He knows all things.
 
Member
I too have thought about why God feels the need to test believers if He already knows what they were going to choose but i try to no longer put too much thought about this and many other things concerning the Lord that i don't understand because at end of the day i'm finite and so my mind and the way i think and reason is also finite and God is Infinite. God is omniscient and therefore He knows all things.
Whoa whoa WHOA!! You kids are really taking this down the wrong path.
First. Consider...Why did GOD create man in the first place?
HE wanted a family right?

Second...Consider....HE knew we would fall before HE made us, so, HE provided a SAVIOR so HE could save HIS family.

Third Consider HE asked Abraham to offer up his son, knowing he would, why?, so in turn HE could offer up HIS SON.

We are the people of the BLESSING. We are covenant people. What does that all mean?

Until you know what 'blessing' means, until you know what Covenant is, you are waaaaay beyond your depth in discussing anything beyond simple salvation. In fact, kids, the concept of salvation is sadly under estimated in our understanding.

It all comes down to GOD's love for us. GOD is LOVE and HE loves us far far beyond our understanding. We're here to get to know HIM, and until we get to know HIM we cannot glorify HIM.

Therefore I suggest we stop discussing ideas and start digging into WORD and asking the WORD to open up the WORD to us.
All this intellectual gymnastics is nothing but a rabbit trail.

Really! :shock:
 
Member
Whoa whoa WHOA!! You kids are really taking this down the wrong path.
First. Consider...Why did GOD create man in the first place?
HE wanted a family right?

Second...Consider....HE knew we would fall before HE made us, so, HE provided a SAVIOR so HE could save HIS family.

Third Consider HE asked Abraham to offer up his son, knowing he would, why?, so in turn HE could offer up HIS SON.

We are the people of the BLESSING. We are covenant people. What does that all mean?

Until you know what 'blessing' means, until you know what Covenant is, you are waaaaay beyond your depth in discussing anything beyond simple salvation. In fact, kids, the concept of salvation is sadly under estimated in our understanding.

It all comes down to GOD's love for us. GOD is LOVE and HE loves us far far beyond our understanding. We're here to get to know HIM, and until we get to know HIM we cannot glorify HIM.

Therefore I suggest we stop discussing ideas and start digging into WORD and asking the WORD to open up the WORD to us.
All this intellectual gymnastics is nothing but a rabbit trail.

Really! :shock:
I agree 100%, i'm still a baby in christ and so i shouldn't have said anything because i'm just not yet equipped to and so i spoke from a lack of understanding. Thanks for the loving rebuke El Homebre Viejo . Bless you
 
Member
All this intellectual gymnastics is nothing but a rabbit trail.

Really! :shock:
I have found personally that this is so true! Ive always enjoyed taking things apart and i have this appetite to know how and why things work. I've learned 1st hand what happens when you try to 'figure out' things in scripture without having a solid base.

As for the questions you guys are on about remember this. As we read through scripture, sometimes something springs up right off the page. They may be easy to resolve or sometimes further scripture will resolve it for you. Milk goes down easy but meat needs some chewing before it will go down. Im no expert, so i just ask God to help me when i get to areas that seem 'beyond my pay grade'.
 
Member
Hi, Macca, so you think God is omniscient? Omniscient is a medieval Latin word meaning "all-knowing or knowing everything." If this is true about God, why did God endow man with free-will to determine his own future, and why does the bible contain the account of King Saul.

King Saul was chosen by God to lead His people, the nation of Israel. At the start he was a humble man and clearly had God's favor. (1 Samuel 10:20, 21) But, in the war against the Amalekites, Saul transgressed God's command by sparing the best of their flock and herd as well as their king, Agag. When asked why he had not obeyed, Saul shifted the blame onto the people. Only after Samuel emphasized the serious nature of the sin and said that, because of it, God was rejecting him as King, did Saul acknowledge his error. Later Samuel put Agag to death. After that, Samuel parted from Saul and they had no further association with him. (1 Samuel 15:1-35)

Now, if God was omniscient and knew this was going to happen, why did God say in 1 Samuel 15:11, (NASB): "I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following Me and has not carried out My commands." And also 1 Samuel 15:35, (NASB) says: "Samuel did not see Saul again until the day of his death; for Samuel grieved over Saul. And the LORD regretted that He had made Saul king over Israel." If anything, this to me just shows the amazing gift God has bestowed not only on man but also the angels in heaven, because like man, not all of them continued to serve God even though they were created perfect in heaven.
 
Member
Hi, Macca, so you think God is omniscient? Omniscient is a medieval Latin word meaning "all-knowing or knowing everything." If this is true about God, why did God endow man with free-will to determine his own future, and why does the bible contain the account of King Saul.

Davey, you seem to focus on things that are for us to learn from to show God is not omniscient.
10* Only I can tell you the future
before it even happens.
Everything I plan will come to pass,
for I do whatever I wish.

New Living Translation. (Is 46:10). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.

there are several other places where scripture suggests God changed His mind, but we are to learn from the things that "caused" Him to change His mind.
By all means keep your belief that God is not omniscient, but then he's not an all powerful God. He is a semi-powerless god, who is subject to the foibles of humanity.
If God is not all knowing, why would have in scripture: 9*For God saved us and called us to live a holy life. He did this, not because we deserved it, but because that was his plan from before the beginning of time—to show us his grace through Christ Jesus. 10*And now he has made all of this plain to us by the appearing of Christ Jesus, our Savior. He broke the power of death and illuminated the way to life and immortality through the Good News.
New Living Translation. (2 Ti 1:8-10). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.
To me this suggests He knew of our choices before we were born.
If He knew of our choices, He put His plans in place before we were born.
 
Member
You make an interesting point Macca, however the scripture in Isaiah 46:10, is referring to God being able to predict the future by manipulating current events to arrive at his specified will and purpose.

The comment made by Paul at 2 Timothy 1:8-10, according to Adam Clark's commentary, which states "Before the world began--Προ χρονων αιωνιων. Before the Mosaic dispensation took place, God purposed the salvation of the Gentiles by Christ Jesus; and the Mosaic dispensation was intended only as the introducer of the Gospel. The law was our schoolmaster unto Christ." It does not refer to an eternity in the past, only after man's fall in to sin and death, when it became necessary for them to be redeemed out of God's undeserved kindness.

It also occurred to me, as prompted by a resent comment in another thread. The bible often speaks about a book of life or remembrance. Malachi 3:16, 17, (NASB) says: "Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, and the LORD gave attention and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear the LORD and who esteem His name. "They will be Mine," says the LORD of hosts, "on the day that I prepare My own possession, and I will spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him." The book, or scroll, of life refers to the record of Jehovah's servants who come in line to receive the gift of everlasting life. However, the bible also says names can be "blotted out" of that book. Exodus 32:32, 33, (NASB) says: "But now, if You will, forgive their sin-and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!" The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book" This really shows if God knows everything that is going to happen, why are names entered into this book and then when necessary removed???
 

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