Is this the last sign before Christ's return?

[Davy]

Paul clearly stated in 1 Thessalonians 5:3, (NRSV), "When they say, 'There is peace and security,' then sudden destruction will come upon them, as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and there will be no escape!"

If sudden destruction is to instantly come upon them--the ungodly people who do not accept Christ as their Savior, does that mean this is the last sign? Considering the world scene, it is in financial turmoil, literally all over the world, then there is the threat of terrorism. It is quite possible this global recession may have some significance to this prophecy.

When the financial world gets their head above this deluge of debt, and a hand on terrorism, they will have an opportunity to celebrate and announce to the world, "We finally have peace and security!" Of course this is only a symbolic gesture, as human governments will never rid the earth of financial uncertainty or conflict. But, if will be a significant event when world leaders realize the world is pulling out of this financial mess and a PR opportunity to pat themselves on the back (even if it was their greed and negligence that got us here in the first place) then they would be able to make some collective announcement along the lines of what Paul was inspired to write.

 

[David777]

Hello Davy.

There are numerous signs that give us a clear picture
of the state of the world before Christ returns.

Here is one that I do not believe we have seen so
far. Has the church experienced a great falling away?

2 Thessalonians 2
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come,
unless the rebellion comes first (falling away), and the man of
lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

David How do you define this falling away? You see Christians replacing WORD with commentaries, Refusing to believe GOD and HIS WORD. Christians living no different from the world. Christians choosing money and riches over faith. Christians trying to work their way instead of walking by faith. Christians putting everything else before the WORD, refusing to trust GOD, and instead believing whatever the devil shows them.

 

[David777]

David How do you define this falling away? You see Christians replacing WORD with commentaries, Refusing to believe GOD and HIS WORD. Christians living no different from the world. Christians choosing money and riches over faith. Christians trying to work their way instead of walking by faith. Christians putting everything else before the WORD, refusing to trust GOD, and instead believing whatever the devil shows them.

My definition is the same as yours.

An increasing lust for the world and all it contains.

Certainly not fasting and prayer.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Then, David, you are seeing a great falling away all around you

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

What would it look look if we approached these things as spiritual instead of literal.

If we listen to Jesus when he says he is the Day then he is the "Day of the Lord".There are no day's of the Lord but there are the last days and those would be the days before the last Day.

If we simply believe him and take him at his word then every time you read the word Day your brain should flash JESUS.
Jesus also said he is the Light so the light is a Day also.Jesus never ends so he is "the last Day".

Jesus said he is the Resurrection so there is Resurrection on the last Day.Well if you start believing what Jesus said and start believing he IS the Truth/Day/Light/Resurrection that we live and move and have our being in then anything that is not Jesus is a liar.
If what my eyes see disagrees with the Truth then I should pluck it out so that my eye be single and full of light.
So something can be true but not Truth.Jesus said I go to prepare a place for you that where I am you may be also.
Do you know the Way?

If my eyes and brain disagree with Truth then they are liars and a thief only comes to rob,kill and destroy.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Oops,I'm the wicked because I listen to my eyes and ears and I call that which is temporary Truth,how can I escape this darkness?
Oh that the scales would fall away from my eyes like the apostle Paul.I can't stop imagination from spewing doubt,fear and rebellion, I can almost see nations in my mind battling for control of me.They flash images in my mind and expect me to do their bidding.

I know I will believe the words that came out of his mouth are spirit and they are life and this revelation(the one whom God sent) will bring life and destroy those wicked imaginations that mock God by the brightness of this new light that my eye can see..

John 5:25 is not about days,it's about an hour because if you start reading scripture believing that the resurrection "now is" as your new reality it won't take long for the scales to fall from your eyes.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

There has been something stopping this revealing or falling away for 2000 years but it seems to be gone now.

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

IT WOULD SEEM THAT THE FALLING AWAY HAS BEGAN....How many have left the church for tv church or just quit all togather due to ministers tickling the ears and the soul not being fed because of it..to many churches in my area have closed thier doors due to lack of attentence and the giving of tithes ..we will surley see a greater version of this soon but i believe it has began.and we are entering the last days ..The word says that as in the days of sodom we will be when we see the return of Christ ..if you watch the news youll see it has began or is very close to it..Rev

 

[jari]

falling away is not believing Jesus as the way anymore, this is caused by the Son of perdition:


2 Thessalonians 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

but the son of perdition has not been revealed yet. Though the mystery of lawlesness has been long at work. (verse 7)


don't mistake the restrainer (spoken about in Verse 7) for being the church it self. it cant be for the church it self was waiting for removal of the restrainer.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Can you explain why the church is waiting for this restrainer to be removed?

The restrainer is the one who is holding back the evils of the world. When this restrainer is removed then all hell breaks loose and the antichrist is in power.

So who do you say is the restrainer if not the bride? I didn't say the restrainer is the church...I said the bride.

 

[jari]

Can you explain why the church is waiting for this restrainer to be removed?

The restrainer is the one who is holding back the evils of the world. When this restrainer is removed then all hell breaks loose and the antichrist is in power.

So who do you say is the restrainer if not the bride? I didn't say the restrainer is the church...I said the bride.

because it was to be sign for the church that day of the Lord (Rapture) would come after the son of perdition is revealed. the church was instructed as they wait for day of the Lord to wait and see this to happen.

When Lord comes He will destroy that wicked as well rapture church:
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


that's why church couldn't have been the restrainer it self.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Ok I can agree with most of what you said But. The church is not the bride. The bride will come out of the church I believe. Those who are walking in the anointing of JESUS. Those walking in the WORD. The rest will go through the tribulation and await HIS coming. Only those who are overcomers are part of the bride. Scary thought..going through the tribulaton....

I give all of Matt 25 as basis for what I say here. If anyone wants to be part of the bride...get up and walk in the anointing wherewith you are anointed. Walk in LOVE. Walk in all of the WORD. Whatever you do today is in preparation for what you will do in eternity. Be faithful in the gifts and callings you are given so you can be a ruler over much in eternity. Not just a door keeper.

Hmmm A doorkeeper? Not an outside door anyway. grin

 

[jari]

Ok I can agree with most of what you said But. The church is not the bride. The bride will come out of the church I believe. Those who are walking in the anointing of JESUS. Those walking in the WORD. The rest will go through the tribulation and await HIS coming. Only those who are overcomers are part of the bride. Scary thought..going through the tribulaton....

I give all of Matt 25 as basis for what I say here. If anyone wants to be part of the bride...get up and walk in the anointing wherewith you are anointed. Walk in LOVE. Walk in all of the WORD. Whatever you do today is in preparation for what you will do in eternity. Be faithful in the gifts and callings you are given so you can be a ruler over much in eternity. Not just a door keeper.

Hmmm A doorkeeper? Not an outside door anyway. grin

you don't believe salvation is by grace and cannot be lost?

sounds like you use mat 25 for basis of belief that you must earn your place in heaven.....

i see you must believe in pre-trib theory also...

 

[El Hombre viejo]

LOL Of course not. By grace are ye saved... I don't believe it can be lost What I am saying is...Not all of the church is the bride. Those Christians who are not ready when JESUS calls HIS bride are still saved but will miss the marriage feast. They wil not be caught up at the rapture but will go through the tribulation period

 

[jari]

LOL Of course not. By grace are ye saved... I don't believe it can be lost

What I am saying is...Not all of the church is the bride. Those Christians who are not ready when JESUS calls HIS bride are still saved but will miss the marriage feast. They wil not be caught up at the rapture but will go through the tribulation period

ok but that doesn't sound to agreed with 1 Thessalonians 5:4

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

 

[Davy]

Hello Davy.

There are numerous signs that give us a clear picture
of the state of the world before Christ returns.

Here is one that I do not believe we have seen so
far. Has the church experienced a great falling away?

2 Thessalonians 2
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come,
unless the rebellion comes first (falling away), and the man of
lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.

Hi David777:

Your comment seams to suggest that this is a future even, yet the bible shows it has already occurred and continues to this day!

This man of lawlessness is not a single person, nor is it just a future event. 2 Thessalonians 2:7, says: (NIV) "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work." Thus, he has existed for many centuries. Obviously, no literal man has lived that long. So this must represent a group of people. People who display all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and are associated with Satan! as stated in 2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10.

Notice who Jesus associated with the works of the Devil in John 8:44, (NIV): "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire." The bad religious leaders of his day. Remember what Jesus said in Matthew 7:22, 23: "Many will say to me on that day, (The time of the end) 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" The man of lawlessness is a group of bad religious leaders who mislead many with powerful works, but only for their own selfish ends! They started to appear during the end of the first century and have existed ever since misleading fellow Christians for their own ends.

 

[jari]

Davy it doesn't say man of lawlessness is already here but it says he is supposed to be revealed. The secret lawless power has been at work for long however, like it says.

 

[David777]

Hello Davy.

Are you sda?

2 thessalonians 2:3-4
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless
the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed,
the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every
so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the
temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

The word used is "man", this is singular in this case.

This "man" takes his seat in the temple of God and
displays himself as God. One man only may make this
claim and take the seat in the temple. This grand culmination
of satan's strategy over millennia, satan wants you to
worship him as God.

It is future tense since this "man" "in his time" will be revealed.
He has not been revealed as yet for his time has not yet
arrived. Of course we have had many antichrists, those who
deny Jesus. But this fellow is the antithesis of Jesus himself,
the exact opposite in fact. You would do well to also
notice;

9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity
of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders...

Name one antichrist from the past who had "power and signs and
false wonders". Your example must win the world's attention, this
fellow must also be worshiped as God.

Your claim that "man" means "men" is very poor English
comprehension. Just simply read the scripture and try not to
read into the scripture, take the simple sense of what is written.