Is this the best TRINITY passage of Scripture?

[John Zain]

John 14:
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
<SUP>16</SUP> And I will pray (to) the Father, and He will give you another Helper,
that He may abide with you forever —

<SUP>17 </SUP>the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him
nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

<SUP>18</SUP> I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

<SUP>23</SUP> … and We (God) will come to him and make Our home with him.

<SUP>26</SUP> But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name,
He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

The Greek word here for ”another” is ”allos” meaning ”another of the same kind”.

This passage teaches so much more than only the Trinity, doesn't it?

And what do you think? ... Does the “We (God)” refer to …
2 Persons: Jesus and the Holy Spirit, or 3 Persons: all of the Trinity?

 

[Brother Mike]

The Trinity...

Trinity is a made up word.....Much like "Slain in the Spirit"

It is also the subject of much silly debate, even to the splitting of silly and unlearned believers....and whole denominations of the silly and unlearned.

We will put everything on hold, and go to war over something nobody can fully understand, and they lie if they say they do...

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Jesus was a man filled with God (Holy Spirit) Jesus was the word, and here before time.. Jesus was here before everything, for he said "I AM"

Jesus never claimed to be God, but did say if you see him, you saw the father. The scripture also said Jesus thought it not robbery to think he is equal with God.. the same mind we are told to have.

Jesus sits on the right hand of God. Jesus called him father and prayed to God.. yet Jesus operates as God...

The Holy Spirit, is the Spirit of God. The same Holy Spirit Jesus had, we have access to and in the same capacity for Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to us..

Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Now Jesus said we are one with each other, and one in him as he is one in God...

That would make us part of the trinity, if you want to use that word..

Now the word was manifested and made flesh... The word, Jesus..

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

We are also made from the Word, just like Jesus, we are flesh, but just like the flesh of Jesus we age and grow older, but who we really are (Spirits) never grow older but stronger in the Word.

Now if anyone wants to say there is a "Trinity" doctrine... I can prove with scripture there is not... If any want to say Jesus is God, and God alone.. I can prove different with scripture..

Things will become more clear once we are able to see things for what they are... and not limited to natural understanding...

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[John Zain]

Now if anyone wants to say there is a "Trinity" doctrine... I can prove with scripture there is not...
If any want to say Jesus is God, and God alone.. I can prove different with scripture..

Okay, why is there not a Trinity doctrine in my favorite passage John 14:16-26?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
What do you mean by "Jesus is God, and God alone"?

They say your 1 John 5:7 is a bogus verse (added).

I’d say Jesus claimed to be God in His “I AM” statements.
The Jews knew Jesus was claiming to be God, and wanted to kill Him for it.
Jesus said He was “the Son of God”, and to many this means “God”.

Re: “not robbery”
Jesus not only was humble, but was extremely limited in His human body
(compared to Father God).

Why Jesus prayed to the Father all the time is rather a long story.

Re: everybody “in” everybody (sounds like an orgy)
Can’t there be different meanings of “in”?
Jesus taught everything by parables; how about some play on words here?

 

[Brother Mike]

My point was........

My point was.........

This topic has been debated for years here.......... BTW.. welcome to Jesus Talk...

If you want to believe in a Trinity Doctrine... fine by me... I have scriptures to prove that it is true..

If you want to say that Jesus is God, and there is no 3 separate Entities.. then there are scriptures that can be used for that..

To fight over it, or debate it... I have no scriptures for that...

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[John Zain]

This will clear up any confusion concerning the arrival of the Holy Spirit: <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

“But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive;
for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.” (John 7:39)

“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father,
the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.” (John 15:26).

“But now I go away to Him (Father God) who sent Me … It is to your advantage
that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you …“ (John 16:5-7).

“… when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth …” (John 16:13).

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

The Greek word here for ”another” is ”allos” meaning ”another of the same kind”.

This passage teaches so much more than only the Trinity, doesn't it?

And what do you think? ... Does the “We (God)” refer to …
2 Persons: Jesus and the Holy Spirit, or 3 Persons: all of the Trinity?

I believe it would refer to all three and also teaches more.In fact I feel term "Trinity" may be to limiting to describe this reality.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Surely,some one will say that these things are taken out of context.
I would remind them that scripture is spiritual.It must be spiritually discerned.Scripture also shows patterns and cycles and cycles of patterns and patterns of cycles.

 

[John Zain]

TCH ...

You sound like a reasonable guy to talk to ... so I'll ask you:

How do you feel about the importance of believing in the Triune Godhead (i.e. Trinity)?

 

[stephen]

Reading this the thought comes to mind.....Jesus was in the Jordan waters. The Holy Spirit descended upon Him like a dove. The voice of God the Father was heard to speak...."This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased"

John 3.13-16.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Whats important to me is that it explains many scriptures that would not make sense if read literally and only with a belief in absolute linear time.
More importantly it confirms a pattern that shows itself in the micro all the way to the macro which is consistent with both scripture and known science.

On the micro level:
An atom consists of 3 particles of energy a neutron,proton and electron.
So in this universe it takes three (energy) particles to make 1 particle of matter.

The mid level:
The family unit is of the same pattern.
Father,son,Holy Spirit manifests as Husband,wife and offspring.
There is the similar pattern in Christ,Bride of Christ and offspring.

The macro level:
Earth,water and sky make our "one" world.Our five senses detect a three dimensional world.
Jesus is returning for a perfected bride company culminating in the wedding supper,the new heavens and earth and the new Jerusalem.
I could really go off and speak of three's within three's but I'm not sure it would be edifying to anyone.

Incidentally I have never taken the time to study any"Trinity" Doctrines so I don't know how many there are or what they actually say.


Not understanding the concept is not going to cause God to reject someone.
I doubt that not having a full understanding would keep some one from being an effective witness about the edifying subjects most of us do agree on.

 

[brakelite]

Here is my favourite scripture for revealing the relationship between Jesus and His Father.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
When considered in the light of the rest of the NT, it is clear that the Spirit spoken of here is a personality, not just a force. A personality that grieves, convicts, pleads, implores, loves, empowers, guides, informs, shares truth, grants wisdom, gives gifts.

Also, it is clear that Jesus is not a created being, but eternal, both past and present, and has always been with the Father, the Holy Spirit likewise. God is love. If God as some may suggest is but one entity, then His love is negated because love in essence cannot exist without someone to share it with.

The amazing privilege offered us is that we can be God's temple, a home for the Holy Spirit just as Jesus was. In this we are offered a position equal to Jesus, as adopted children. ( I now await the bricks over my term 'equal' :shock

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

The amazing privilege offered us is that we can be God's temple, a home for the Holy Spirit just as Jesus was. In this we are offered a position equal to Jesus, as adopted children. ( I now await the bricks over my term 'equal'

I was thinking of saying I'll get stoned with you but that doesn't have the same meaning anymore.

So I'll just say I agree we are now part of the trinity as a son company.
We are also the bride of Christ,under the authority and wielding the authority of the son himself.

John 14:12 "I can guarantee this truth: Those who believe in me will do the things that I am doing. They will do even greater things because I am going to the Father.

We are continually called to do as he did and only an equal one could.

 

[sojourn4Christ]

1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (Authorized Version)