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Is there Salvation?

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jiggyfly there was a reason why I only mentioned that I did research and did not supply the verses. I did save everything on my computer for later reference though.

I don't want to lead you in your own search, I want the Spirit of God to do that, because only then will you believe that what you find is the truth. If you do your research look at the whole chapter and not just one verse, look at the circumstances under which it was written, to whom and why.

I use a program called e-sword - the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge, I believe it is a free program. This program have a lot of cool features that makes it easy to look for something - try it. I also searched the web to see what others say and what parts of the Bible they used.

I wish you luck.

Blessings!

Thats not why I am asking, I want you to support your theory with scriptures as stated in the forum rules. It's been my experience that many people believe what they do as a result of having been taught by tradition and develope a wrong mindset. Tradition has a way of twisting the scriptures.

Here's my previous posts,

Another scripture to consider.
Colossians 1:18-20
18*Christ is the head of the church, which is his body. He is the first of all who will rise from the dead,* so he is first in everything. 19 For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, 20*and by him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of his blood on the cross.

So where do the scriptures mandate that you can only be born-again if you do it before you experience a physical death of the natural body and one other point I want to make about this scripture is Jesus does not say enter but rather see the kingdom of God. He also does not say that all who are born-again will see the kindom but rather inorder to see the kingdom you must first be born-again. I think we seem to have a serious need here to identify what exactly Jesus has said and clarify in order to identify what is truth.

So I am trying to get you to support your thought with scriptures, at the moment I am not undecided
 
jiggyfly

You say - "at the moment I am not undecided" - meaning that you made up your mind - meaning that you believe what you believe until you are convinced otherwise.

In this case I am sorry but I can't convince you otherwise only the Spirit of God can.

Please understand when I say that I don't want to debate this issue anymore. I started making a list of everything that I have and in the middle realized that you will question everything and it will not solve anything. If we can't agree there is nothing to do. People reading this must make up there own minds.

With Love!
Blessings!
 
Ann, it says in the Bible and mentioned alot of times by Jesus. will be deception , it will run rampant. It states in the word of God, Mt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. Thank-you Ann, i pray many who read this will seek out His truth....

Praise the Lord!!

debbi
 
jiggyfly

You say - "at the moment I am not undecided" - meaning that you made up your mind - meaning that you believe what you believe until you are convinced otherwise.

In this case I am sorry but I can't convince you otherwise only the Spirit of God can.

Please understand when I say that I don't want to debate this issue anymore. I started making a list of everything that I have and in the middle realized that you will question everything and it will not solve anything. If we can't agree there is nothing to do. People reading this must make up there own minds.

With Love!
Blessings!

But one should post scriptures that support their belief.I think that it is still part of the forum rules too. I'm am trying to get you to question what you have been taught by tradition. If your mind is made up then there's nothing more to discuss between us. God bless
 
There is not a solitary verse in the New Testament to support the idea of second chances, either after death or after His appearing. It is only wish-ful thinking on the part of some, I'm afraid.
all the best...
 
Does Everybody get to hear gospel?

This thread seems heading in the same direction as a previous thread by Jiggy on Tradition & Truth, consequent to which Chad started a new thread on Eternal hell. I will not get into it again, since the scripture is very clear and unambigous on 'no second chances after death'. I leave it there for people to study and find out the truth since a lot has already been said about this.
My intention is to bring to the notice of forum that God can never be accused of being unjust in getting people to serve in hell just because they never heard the gospel. It seems apparent that there are many who have never heard the gospel and therefore by the criteria of unbelief will go to hell unjustly since they never got a chance to believe.
If this were so wouldn't God be acting unjustly?
Praise God that this is never so. He in His wisdom has provided everybody a chance while on on earth.
Consider the following verses:

John 1:9 "That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world".
God's light is provided,, in some manner, to everyone being born.

Romans 1:18-22 "18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19. because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21. because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22. Professing to be wise, they became fools"


Psalms 19:1-4 "1. The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork.
2 Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language Where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their words to the end of the world. In them He has set a tabernacle for the sun"


These verses make it quite clear that God has not left anybody, anytime unaware of Himself and His ways.

Still if somebody has a doubt, consider Romans 2:5-16: "5. But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6. who "will render to each one according to his deeds":
7. eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8. but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness; indignation and wrath,
9. tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
10. but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11. For there is no partiality with God.
12. For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13. (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
14. for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15. who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

16. in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel."


Those who did not have God's written law will also be judged by how they responded to the call of their conscience and the law God has written in their hearts. How they behaved when they knew something to be wrong.

These passage make it clear that God is just and equitable in His judgements.


So the crux of the matter is that nobody leaving this earth will be able to say I did not know the truth even if the gospel, as we know and preach, was not available to them.

Therefore this obviates the need for anybody to cry for a 'second chance'.
aksd
 
This thread seems heading in the same direction as a previous thread by Jiggy on Tradition & Truth, consequent to which Chad started a new thread on Eternal hell. I will not get into it again, since the scripture is very clear and unambigous on 'no second chances after death'. I leave it there for people to study and find out the truth since a lot has already been said about this.
My intention is to bring to the notice of forum that God can never be accused of being unjust in getting people to serve in hell just because they never heard the gospel. It seems apparent that there are many who have never heard the gospel and therefore by the criteria of unbelief will go to hell unjustly since they never got a chance to believe.
If this were so wouldn't God be acting unjustly?
Praise God that this is never so. He in His wisdom has provided everybody a chance while on on earth.
Consider the following verses:

John 1:9 "That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world".
God's light is provided,, in some manner, to everyone being born.

Romans 1:18-22 "18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19. because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21. because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22. Professing to be wise, they became fools"


Psalms 19:1-4 "1. The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork.
2 Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language Where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their words to the end of the world. In them He has set a tabernacle for the sun"


These verses make it quite clear that God has not left anybody, anytime unaware of Himself and His ways.

Still if somebody has a doubt, consider Romans 2:5-16: "5. But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6. who "will render to each one according to his deeds":
7. eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8. but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness; indignation and wrath,
9. tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
10. but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11. For there is no partiality with God.
12. For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13. (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
14. for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15. who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

16. in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel."


Those who did not have God's written law will also be judged by how they responded to the call of their conscience and the law God has written in their hearts. How they behaved when they knew something to be wrong.

These passage make it clear that God is just and equitable in His judgements.


So the crux of the matter is that nobody leaving this earth will be able to say I did not know the truth even if the gospel, as we know and preach, was not available to them.

Therefore this obviates the need for anybody to cry for a 'second chance'.
aksd

So how does 1Peter3:18-21 fit into your belief?
1Peter 3:18-21
18*Christ also suffered when he died for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners that he might bring us safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.*
19*So he went and preached to the spirits in prison—20 those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood.* 21*And this is a picture of baptism, which now saves you by the power of Jesus Christ’s resurrection. Baptism is not a removal of dirt from your body; it is an appeal to God from* a clean conscience.
 
After looking at all the posts, I am closing this thread.

Thank you for your scriptures everyone. We have enough evidence through Word that anything added at this point will cause debate.

The Bible says that we must be born again to see the kingdom of God and if everyone were given second chances after death, then we would have serial killers and rapists in heaven along side the people who have devoted their lives to following in the footsteps of Jesus.

God Bless.
 
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