Is there a limit to God's forgiveness?

[Born Again 2004]

Yes, all I am saying is:

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Matthew 12: 31-32

 

[Curtis]

Am I missing something here? Are we saved by grace alone, or are there other things we must do to be saved? If there is, then we are not saved by grace, but by grace + something else, which would include works!!! Thank God we are saved by grace alone + nothing!!! If we want to be able to have "access" to this grace by which we are saved that requires faith!!! No body is saved by faith, because faith has works connected to it. We are only saved by grace through faith. We are not saved by faith through grace!!!
No body turns from sin and then gets saved, we turn from sin after we are saved, which is called sanctification.(to make holy)

 

[B-A-C]

Are we saved by grace alone, or are there other things we must do to be saved?

The words "grace" and "alone" do not appear together in the same verse anywhere in the Bible. (At least in the 16 versions I have)

Jas 2:14; What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:17; Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
Jas 2:20; But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Eph 2:8; For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10; For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Matt 19:16; And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?"
Matt 19:17; And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Jas 2:21; Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

Matt 5:16; "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

1 Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

1 Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

John 15:10; "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

 

[Born Again 2004]

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

Faith is a gift of God, comes from God alone and no other. Heb 12:2 says "...Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith". And Rom 12:3 says " ... God has allotted to each a measure of faith.” You don't perform for or manufacture you faith! It is free and from God!

Jas 2:17; Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

This is also true but not what you think. If you are truly "Born Again", with Christ in you, you will have works that reveal your salvation. I believe in Jesus with all my heart and believe that he is in me.
I profess this and openly, tell others, this is one of the works that James was referring to!

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:29...Thomas saw and believed; we have not seen and believe, that is grace through faith, a gift from God alone and we are blessed!

 

[Curtis]

The words "grace" and "alone" do not appear together in the same verse anywhere in the Bible. (At least in the 16 versions I have)

Jas 2:14; What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:17; Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
Jas 2:20; But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Eph 2:8; For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10; For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Matt 19:16; And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?"
Matt 19:17; And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Jas 2:21; Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

Matt 5:16; "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

1 Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

1 Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

John 15:10; "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Faith always has "works" connected to it as a sign that that person really does have faith. Faith is a Spirit and it is one of the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

These all are recognizable through actions (works) if a man truly has faith, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus said you would know them by their fruits. The fruits of the Spirit do NOT come from man, but from the Spirit dwelling inside that person.
As God the Father promised in the Old Testament..........

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

All works of faith are by God's Spirit that dwells within man. Man can lay no claim to any works of his own no matter how much he wants to!!!

Jesus lived under the Old Testament even though the Gospels are in the New Testament. Jesus telling someone to keep the commandments was the standard way for a man to get saved. The Old Testament is know as the law of works. No one will be saved by the "works" of the law!!! The law was only given to show man he could NOT keep it!!!!

Abraham being justified by works is not him becoming saved by his actions!!

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Abraham's faith in God's Word to him caused him to offer up his son. With out the Word of God in which he had faith in he could have never offered up his only son!!! How do I know this?

Jesus said, "I can of my own self do nothing....!!! (John 5:30) Jesus then tells man, "without me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)

Abraham learn the greatest lesson anybody could ever learn and that was......

Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

The same person who gave Abraham his promises (the Word of God), would be the same person who would "perform" those promises.

The word, "keep, keepeth, keeps" means to guard and protect. Protect from what? the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, the lusts of other things that would enter in and choke the Word so it does not produce it actions (works) in our life!!!!

 

[B-A-C]

The same person who gave Abraham his promises (the Word of God), would be the same person who would "perform" those promises.

Even if this is true, something, somewhere is being "performed" by someone.

Jesus said, "I can of my own self do nothing....!!! (John 5:30) Jesus then tells man, "without me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)

I am not disputing this at all. But even WITH Him there are trees that bear bad fruit, and no fruit at all.

Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Go always keeps His part, that doesn't mean we don't have to keep ours.

... The one verses that says saved by grace... not by "works"... doesn't say... not by obedience, not by keeping the commandments,
not by prayer, not by good morals, not by faith, not by the Holy Spirit, there are many other things here we are saved by.
But it's not works... and it's not grace alone.

 

[Born Again 2004]

BAC , as a Christian I want to please God; that is not of my own doing but driven by whom is in me! I am not conceited enough to think that anything I do pleases God. I am not righteous but the one in me is! The only pleasure for God in all this, is that his son lives in me. What you fail to grasp it is only God that could devise a foolproof plan to defeat the Devil, it is by his grace alone...all of him and none of us....it simply couldn't work any other way, less we where to boast and the Devil could have a chance. God did this before the foundation!

 

[Curtis]

I am not disputing this at all. But even WITH Him there are trees that bear bad fruit, and no fruit at all.

The tree does not come from the person, it comes from the "seed" which is the Word of God. It's fruit dose not come from the man but from the Spirit that produces it.

 

[Curtis]

Even if this is true, something, somewhere is being "performed" by someone.

God does the performing, and man does the "believing". This all comes about by way of we are "co workers" with God. Man has the authority, and God has the power to perform mans authority.

 

[Lanolin]

Oh! This old debate again!

Faith without works is dead.
Thats all James said, well the gist of it in his letter. He should know he was the Lords brother!

 

[Lanolin]

God does the performing, and man does the "believing". This all comes about by way of we are "co workers" with God. Man has the authority, and God has the power to perform mans authority.

Um that sounds like the reverse of what actually happens. GOd has the authority and man is given the power to peform that authority as we are His hands and feet.

Did you not read the story of David and Goliath? GOd didnt kill Goliath, David did..but David was so close to God he knew what to do and gave glory to God. He also had lots of practice killing LIONS and BEARS. To protect his sheep.

Even Gideon who was afraid and weak, showed up where God wanted him to and obeyed Him, Gideon didnt tell God what to do. God told him.

 

[Lanolin]

The tree does not come from the person, it comes from the "seed" which is the Word of God. It's fruit dose not come from the man but from the Spirit that produces it.

Yes but if you know anything about gardening and Im thinking from your posts you know precious little, to bear GOOD fruit you need right conditions and also pruning, mulching, manuring and sometimes other fruit trees around some fruit trees are dioecious meaning they not self fertile. No fruit tree bears good fruit without extra care taken by the gardener!

 

[Born Again 2004]

Oh! This old debate again!
Faith without works is dead.
Thats all James said, well the gist of it in his letter. He should know he was the Lords brother!

No debating truth; hasn't change in over two thousand years!

 

[Curtis]

Um that sounds like the reverse of what actually happens. GOd has the authority and man is given the power to peform that authority as we are His hands and feet.

Did you not read the story of David and Goliath? GOd didnt kill Goliath, David did..but David was so close to God he knew what to do and gave glory to God. He also had lots of practice killing LIONS and BEARS. To protect his sheep.

Even Gideon who was afraid and weak, showed up where God wanted him to and obeyed Him, Gideon didnt tell God what to do. God told him.

Luke 10:19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you.

Act 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Man has the "authority", and the Holy Spirit (God) is power to back up man's authority.

2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Treasure in Jars of Clay
2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Curtis]

No fruit tree bears good fruit without extra care taken by the gardener!

Who do you suppose is the "gardener"?

1Co 3:9 For we are fellow workmen (joint promoters, laborers together) with and for God; you are God's garden and vineyard and field under cultivation, [you are] God's building. (AMP)

 

[Curtis]

GOd didnt kill Goliath, David did

You might want to re-read who delivered David.

1Sa 17:37 David said, The Lord Who delivered me out of the paw of the lion and out of the paw of the bear, He will deliver me out of the hand of this Philistine. And Saul said to David, Go, and the Lord be with you!

Who would you say delivered David. It was not David!!!

 

[Born Again 2004]

How wonderful that there are no impossibilities for our God! We are on his time table that he devised and stared before creation.

 

[Hekuran]

I am not conceited enough to think that anything I do pleases God. I am not righteous but the one in me is! The only pleasure for God in all this, is that his son lives in me.

God takes pleasure in all his creation and he delights in you, born again 2004. You write as if you were a worthless carcass with nothing good or admirable to offer at all. I don't think the Bible supports that view.

God knows our every weakness and failing, and yet still considers us precious enough to send his son to redeem us. God loved us as we were, God loves us as we are, God loves us as we will be.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Romans 3:10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
Of course God loves me, even before I found Jesus; he loves even those who reject him.
Either I didn't say it properly or you miss-read what I said, or you believe in legalism.
The very fact that he sent his son is proof that we can do Nothing, no work to gain righteousness or his kingdom.
We are not worthy but, he who is inside a Christian is!
Do you believe you are saved by Christ being in you or by what you do?

 

[B-A-C]

Php 2:12; So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
Php 2:13; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Php 2:14; Do all things without grumbling or disputing;
Php 2:15; so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world,

WE are the one who "work out" our salvation. We are the ones who "prove ourselves to be blameless".

Do you believe you are saved by Christ being in you or by what you do?

Both. You can't be saved without faith in Jesus, but you also can't be saved if you're continuing to live in sin.

1 Pet 1:6; In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
1 Pet 1:7; so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Our faith isn't just what we say. Our faith is what we we do. Faith itself is a work. How we act, and the choices we make when we are going
through trials is what "proves" our faith.