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is the earth only 6,000 years old?

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Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." THERE IS A TIME LAPSE, A GAP, between the events in Gen. 1:1 and Gen. 1:2.There could be millions of years between the two verses. No one knows for how many years the earth was laid waste.

Genesis 1:2 , in the King James, reads, "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep...."
The word "was" should properly be translated "became," as we see from the oldest manuscripts below:
(1) Chaldee - became desert and empty.
(2) Septuagint - became unfurnished and empty.
(3) Aramaic - became ruined and uninhabited.
(4) Vulgate - became dreary and empty.


We do know from Isaiah 45:18 that God did not create the earth in a state of waste to begin with. "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it, he hath established it, he created it NOT IN VAIN, he formed it to be inhabited...." by Dr. A. Ray Stanford
 
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i would think for there to be a timelaps betweeb the first and second day espisaly as some say a million year gap. it would seem you would have to have the days go by to count the gap, and as of yet he said it was only the first day. so how would you figure a million years time.you cant count time unless you have days to count time with.
how could you messure the amount of time spent betwen days, without tim moving forward by way of days.
 
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I wonder?

Is it really necessary to know how old the Earth is?

I do not think anyone has any real idea just how
old it is.

Even the Bible does not provide the answer.

Why is this question so important?

I also know that Science cannot prove its age either.

It certainly is older than 4-6 thousand years.
 
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I believe the Earth is millions/billions of years old and, like David suggested, don't think it's very important.
 
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Indeed - the Bible says nothing regarding the actual age... The 6000 year theory is one of those conclusions that arise when taking a literal approach to every word in the Bible. That is, every word is literally true. Please note that this is different from inerrancy of the Bible, which means that the Bible is without error.

Two subtle differences which cause alot of grief in our fellowship, in my opinion.

Consider - in Psalms God is described as having wings in which we can hide. Literally true? Does God have wings? Of course not, but the concept which is one of protection - protect me as a mother bird would wrap its wings around its young.

My opinion at least.
 
Member
In the beginning.

Does it not say that the Earth was formless and void. How long was it formless and void for before God moved over the surface of the deep?
This occurred before the first day in Genesis.

It is clear that the Earth existed before the first day in my opinion.
But, I do believe in the six days of creation.

How long was Adam in the garden of Eden before Eve arrived? No time interval is expressed in these passages. How long was Adam with Eve
before they chose to disobey God?

It is possible for gaps in time to exist within the above areas.

Finally, our Bible is not a Science text, nor a human history textbook.
It is the exact truth regarding the creation of mankind, mankinds fall into sin, then God's powerful and loving offer of redemption through His son Jesus Christ.

If God left periods of time within creation then that is what He has done. Did He create the Earth in new condition or in aged condition, I do not know. Did the universe exist before God created life in the six days? We cannot know the answers to these questions.

Anyone that is more concerned with how old the Earth is, has missed the invisible, immortal, revelation of the wonder that is Jesus. This is what the Bible reveals to us, God is in a race to save as many as possible before judgement day. This judgement has to occur, God is absolutely just, He must judge.
 
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Well then, let's have a look at it; see if it is so or not. Shall we? Below is the original post and its thesis. If Gap:THEN amount of time uncertain=not revealed how old
Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." THERE IS A TIME LAPSE, A GAP, between the events in Gen. 1:1 and Gen. 1:2.There could be millions of years between the two verses. No one knows for how many years the earth was laid waste.

Genesis 1:2 , in the King James, reads, "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep...."
The word "was" should properly be translated "became," as we see from the oldest manuscripts below:
(1) Chaldee - became desert and empty.
(2) Septuagint - became unfurnished and empty.
(3) Aramaic - became ruined and uninhabited.
(4) Vulgate - became dreary and empty.


We do know from Isaiah 45:18 that God did not create the earth in a state of waste to begin with. "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it, he hath established it, he created it NOT IN VAIN, he formed it to be inhabited...." by Dr. A. Ray Stanford
Games G gives us three verses Gen.1:1 and Gen.1:2 with Isaiah 45:18. As his interpretive theory has it: in Gen.1:1 a habitable earth is created and an unrevealed amount of time transpires: in v.2 because was should be translated became Then we are to insert some form of a desert scape (Chaldea), un-furnishment and emptying (Septuagint), a ruination and depopulation (Aramaic), or some kind of drearyization and emptying (Vulgate). Then the rest of the Genesis narrative picks up from that point in v.2. Now, because we are in wonder what to make of this, Is.45:18 is presented with the due citation of a Dr. A. Ray Standford. This verse is the proof text for the verb and verb-tense change hypothesized. Is that fair enough? That's about all I see there. Well, you do say laid waste and did not create in a state of waste to begin with at the start and finish of your article. So now, let us test it!

Rule one in interpretive efforts: CONTEXT is KING. We have the context of the Gen.1:1-2:3 in which to test this first. And then we might have any scriptural teaching anywhere else, that might be fitted into this Good-habitable/destroyed-uninhabitable/remade-good scenario. A big issue is weather or not was should rather be translated became. That ought first to be generally demonstrated (the possibility of it), then the desirability of it (assuming that was is also possible). Last, it is quite fair to use Is.45 as that larger context of Bible teaching. Will this interpretive idea fly? let's see!

From Gen.1:2-5 we have light created to shine on a mass of stuff called tohume, the deep, out of which the heavens are separated in their midst Gen.1:6-8, then: the dry land from waters below, and plants in the new-earth Gen.1:9-13, next: to the new-heavens God creates the light holders (sun, moon, and stars) and from that point the light comes from those, marking time Gen.1:14-19, after this: air, sea and land animals in a couple of days Gen.1:20-31, last: the Sabbath is given. Now of great import is the tohume; out of its mass all the heavens of space and the physical bodies that populate it, as well as all dry land with the plants and animals are developed by creation and forming which gives it meaning and purpose in God's design. Assuming we have a reforming, does "became desert and empty", do justice to that? How about, "became unfurnished and empty"? This one possibly can: "became ruined and uninhabited." The last one is pretty funny, I think: "became dreary and empty"; not fit for party-animals.

Taking the only one that could possible work with the context let's see how good it does! Tohume=uninhadited? Too obviously, yes. Tohume=ruined? I don't think so. There is no form to it at all, and the immensity of its void is way too vast to imply a simple ruining. If any one thinks to use this interpretation to account for fossils and radio-dating procedures, then Tohume stands in the way of that, at least in the proceeding context. It's not looking to good. But "was" and the tohume being called heaven and earth, as it held them in its bosom, it a natural for the context.

Let's look at Isaiah, for even though there are problems with the "ruined" idea, it might be required to make sense of Isaiah. Cyrus, a Persian king, is addressed by God as well as his people that Cyrus will allow to escape and rebuild Jerusalem. Lots of great truths are expressed there, and creation is used to mark the difference of the true God with idols: "12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded." Among such references is v.18, "18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else." The point in the Isaiah context is as creator he can do these things with his people who he has a plan for in their land. This is for Cyrus and God's people. OK, so does it teach a ruination of a once-inhabited world into a tohume that had to be made over? Well, how about just supporting the became as opposed to the was? God created the heavens and earth in 6 days (complete scriptural agreement on that). If he recreated it, it was uninhabitable for 5 days, so the 4 days were decreasingly formless and if they are allowed, then day one's Tohume must be allowable also. That pretty much negates the use of Isaiah to support "become". Neither God, nor Isaiah, meant any such thing. He created the formless mass and then worked on it starting with light to bring out his design: for the purpose that man might live in it. There is just no rational consistent reason to put a gap there. If you study it out, neither the Genesis context nor the Bible context will allow it. It is a force fit that breaks down on close examination.

If you would like to read an article giving the natural reading of the Genesis text a chance to speak for itself and yet take in the science implications, I recommend you to 1)Creation’s 1st day: Material and light, 2)Creation's 2nd Day, 3)Creation’s 3rd Day: earth/seas/plants, 4)Creation’s forth Day: Solar system/Deep space, and lastly 5)CREATION’S DAY FIFTH: Life in seas-n-Life on the wing. All articles I have posted in Bible Study Hall forum here at TJ. Have a look at them. The context (both, narrative and biblical) I believe is not violated in it. It is my own work...leave a comment.
 
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Dear James G, I really should have put this in above. Sorry about that, but let me put it in here. Your thesis was very well constructed and it is eminently testable using context.
If Gap:THEN amount of time uncertain=not revealed how old
What I need to put up to it is a contrary thesis, for then it too will be constructed just as well and also testable. So then we have thesis 1) If GAP: THEN:amount of TIME is UNCERTAIN: THEREFORE:It is not revealed how old the earth is The contrary thesis should then become: thesis 2) If NO GAP: THEN: amount of TIME is CERTAIN: THEREFORE: It is revealed how old the earth is That should about do it. If the first thesis is logical the second is as well. Now, there might be other issues casting uncertainties into the mix, (that would be another thing) but as far as this one goes: it is good.

The condition we tested was GAP or NO GAP, and my findings were NO GAP...therefore without any other issues we must say the age of the earth and universe is revealed. Now the data of the Scriptures put that in the area of 6000 years ago.

Now that is a very short time. If the Bible is divine testimony and unerring and authoritative truth: Then observational and experimental science ought to be able to discriminate between some score billions of years and say less than 10 thousands of years. Now to my mind this is the real issue scientifically. You would think it ought to be possible. Now that would make a lie out of one or the other "science" positions: they both can not be true. Now for someone who knows the Bible is true, this just gets me excited about science.
 
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I do not worry about such things, Oh I used to, I was led down that road, found it going the wrong way.

Men used to live long lives, close to a thousand years, then as sin kept hammering us our life spans grew shorter, and God finally set a maximum life span of 120 years, and none of us ever reach that now.

I figure our entire life is but a second to God. We are like little ants running around, busy with life, wondering , but the creation is beyond my understanding.....

So I just accept God created the Universe, we are his perfect creation and he holds us dear......I hold to that.

No more needed for me. One day we will know, meanwhile it is dangerous to assume things. Many things in science also take faith, but the word of God is the only thing that actually speaks to us......so no longer worried about it.

Kit
 
Active

RJ

By who's time?

It really doesn't concern me at all, I know God is real.

The Bible says that a 1000 years to us is as a day to God. We really don't know if that is exact for sure, maybe a 1000 of our years is but a millisecond for God. I think that the latter is more likely because God has always been eternal and there is no time and sapce as we know it in his realm.

It is pretty hard to deny the fossel records of Dinosaurs so, what does that mean?

The earth is really old but eternity is for ever!
 
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Member
By who's time?

It really doesn't concern me at all, I know God is real.

The Bible says that a 1000 years to us is as a day to God. We really don't know if that is exact for sure, maybe a 1000 of our years is but a millisecond for God. I think that the latter is more likely because God has always been eternal and there is no time and sapce as we know it in his realm.

It is pretty hard to deny the fossel records of Dinosaurs so, what does that mean?

The earth is really old but eternity is for ever!

God does speak of dinosaurs in the story of Job. His first way or creation so to speak. He is very proud of them. So they must have lived at the time of man or why would he have spoken of something to Job that would have had no understanding? But he could have been speaking of things past. But for sure God knew all about them. The words do seem to be of the present of the time, not the past.

Kit
 
Loyal
Some people believe an indeterminable amount of time could have passed between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2 . Perhaps millions or billions of years. Another thought is God could have created the earth to "look" older than it really is.
 
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I think you guys missed the point james g made. He said there was time gap between gen 1 verse 1 & 2. He didnt say days were anything else than days as we know it.

just to clear up the confusion not sure if i got it right either.

am i right this what james is saying?

i have asked my self similar questions before... im not sure what is correct interpreation of the verses
 
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evolution teachers want people to believe the earth is millions of years old. in teacher editions of text books it says to stress its millions of years old. study the history on this and you will find only evoloution teaches this however thru recent history i.e. 1900's to now evolutionists have said the earth is older and older. meaning say in 1950s is so many million years old but in 1990's its many more million years old. science is what can be proven, however what science teaches today is theories.
christians have never in history i can find said its millions of years. except the gap theoryists.
going back to teaching of facts instead of theory. no one was around millions of years ago. or even 6000 years ago, so either way, its speculation. a mere theory and nothing else.
i have a theory, the bible says in the begining because its unknown to a man from generation to generation. and yet, He is still God. How many "documented and recorded histories" have been destroyed? saying in the begining shows he was, and is, and is to come, from everlasting to everlasting.
 
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Genesis 1:1
says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." THERE IS A TIME LAPSE, A GAP, between the events in Gen. 1:1 and Gen. 1:2.There could be millions of years between the two verses. No one knows for how many years the earth was laid waste.


james g, howdy. i wanna point out something in your words. you state there is matter in factly a time lapse, a gap even, between gen 1:1 and gen 1:2. then you continue to say there COULD be millions of years.... your words sound like words from a modern day science text book teaching on evolution. you state something as a fact and then proceed to say well its possible. futher more you say no one knows for sure how many years the earth was laid waste. so you dont know either but you wanna tell it?
not trying to be mean, but it is, or it aint.
 
Member
Evolutionists desperately need an old earth to prop up their increasingly faltering theory of evolution, so they will fight tooth and nail. If the earth is not at least millions of years old, evolution does not have the time necessary to even be remotely possible. As it is, evolution is mathematically all but impossible, even with millions or billions of years added to the equation.

Soon enough this debate will be ended as we head into the Tribulation when Anti-Christ has no use for its deception anymore and will toss it aside like the tattered lie that it is, in exchange for his demands of worship as God.

Christian, don't waste your time arguing, debating, or even contemplating this. It's purpose is to deceive the unwary on a path to hell, confuse a Christian into doubt and neutrality, cause you to rage at unbelievers, or outright cause the Christian to become shipwrecked altogether.

Which of these goals do you wish to see fulfilled in your life?
 
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Evolutionists desperately need an old earth to prop up their increasingly faltering theory of evolution, so they will fight tooth and nail. If the earth is not at least millions of years old, evolution does not have the time necessary to even be remotely possible. As it is, evolution is mathematically all but impossible, even with millions or billions of years added to the equation.

Soon enough this debate will be ended as we head into the Tribulation when Anti-Christ has no use for its deception anymore and will toss it aside like the tattered lie that it is, in exchange for his demands of worship as God.

Christian, don't waste your time arguing, debating, or even contemplating this. It's purpose is to deceive the unwary on a path to hell, confuse a Christian into doubt and neutrality, cause you to rage at unbelievers, or outright cause the Christian to become shipwrecked altogether.

Which of these goals do you wish to see fulfilled in your life?

If one is going to argue that the Earth isn't around 4.5 billion years old, one might as well argue that our sun is not a star or question the theories of gravity or evolution by natural selection, both of which are supported by mountains of evidence, and both of which are unequivocally accepted by every reputable scientist working in these fields.
I think that resistance to well-established scientific consensuses might marginalize Christians, and place them on a road to irrelevance where they will only share the company of Muslims, who deny the plain facts of our common ancestry with the other species for the same reasons, namely that they consider the science to conflict with their holy book.

I think we oughtn't take a dismissive attitude towards the sciences. They led us out of the Dark Ages, brought us modern medicine, air-travel and countless other discoveries that have transformed all of our lives for the better.

Donnie
 
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If one is going to argue that the Earth isn't around 4.5 billion years old, one might as well argue that our sun is not a star or question the theories of gravity or evolution by natural selection, both of which are supported by mountains of evidence, and both of which are unequivocally accepted by every reputable scientist working in these fields.
I think that resistance to well-established scientific consensuses might marginalize Christians, and place them on a road to irrelevance where they will only share the company of Muslims, who deny the plain facts of our common ancestry with the other species for the same reasons, namely that they consider the science to conflict with their holy book.

I think we oughtn't take a dismissive attitude towards the sciences. They led us out of the Dark Ages, brought us modern medicine, air-travel and countless other discoveries that have transformed all of our lives for the better.

Donnie

Donnie,

We all choose what we believe, Christians and atheists alike.

Don't fall into the trap that is setup to make us believe that there is a set of unified and objective consensus within the scientific community that make up for the whole naturalistic "doctrines."

Every discovered fact know to man can be made to fit agendas and politics. Has been throughout human history, and will continue to be that way as long as mankind is the source.

(Note: The above two paragraphs are the summary of what I learned in the end after having a very accepting attitude (opposite of dismissive) towards the scientific/naturalistic world-view)

That is what makes the Christian Bible unique, it's a revelation from God that explains *in detail* why we (mankind) do what we do to ourselves, to each other (think war, oppression, judging, etc.), and to the earth. It explains the different meaning of the concept of love, hatred, guilt, pride, shame, that governs how we act and react to situations in our lives.

The Christian Bible was not written so we can determine the age of the earth, it is much more important than that. It is written so we can have hope beyond death (what do the scientific community offer in that regards?) and a purpose to which we can orient our lives, including to help others. And most importantly, to reconcile us with God who created us.

So I invite you also to study (not just read) the Bible for yourself.
 
Member
Donnie,

We all choose what we believe, Christians and atheists alike.

One mustn't confuse a belief with a fact.

You can choose to believe that after death some exquisite bliss may await whatever is left of your person.
You may choose to believe that if one prays to the wrong God, a far less desirable fate awaits after the shedding of this veil of tears.
You may choose to believe that awareness may survive the destruction of your brain, but for none of these propositions there is the slightest bit of evidence. It just says so in an old collection of books.
You may choose to believe that all who think Jesus is divine will go to Hell.
It says so (twice) in another old book, favored by people born in the Middle East.

One doesn't get to choose whether the plague bacillus is a conduit for disease.
One doesn't get to choose whether the Earth orbits the sun, whether a car will keep moving once the gas tank reaches empty, and one doesn't get to choose whether we share a common ancestor.

In short, your are entitled to your own opinions, not to your own facts.

Donnie
 
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