Is suicide a sin? Do you go to hell for it?
- Thread starter s.i.e.
- Start date
Hello S.I.E.
Your question seems incomplete.
You will need to supply more information.
I understand predestination in regards to Jesus Christ and the election of Jew and Gentile. On this the scripture is clear.
Certainly not predestination regarding every human choice now that would be a strange option to take. I am not aware of any scripture that supports this. I have witnessed many incredibly bad choices made by humans of which God is certainly not the author.
Whether suicide is wrong, I have no scripture to quote, I have not found any. But many Christians regard suicide as the ''taking of life" even your own life as wrong.
I wonder what others think about this?
Your question seems incomplete.
You will need to supply more information.
I understand predestination in regards to Jesus Christ and the election of Jew and Gentile. On this the scripture is clear.
Certainly not predestination regarding every human choice now that would be a strange option to take. I am not aware of any scripture that supports this. I have witnessed many incredibly bad choices made by humans of which God is certainly not the author.
Whether suicide is wrong, I have no scripture to quote, I have not found any. But many Christians regard suicide as the ''taking of life" even your own life as wrong.
I wonder what others think about this?
The question is twofold: 1) is suicide a sin? and 2) do you go to hell for it?
My other words were just to try to unerstand the "why" of people's answers to the twofold question. It was just to offer some thoughts on how to spur the discussion. If those don't help folks with explaining the "why", please, just pass over them. I don't mean to confuse the issue...but I am interested in the "backup" for the "Yes's or No's".
For some folks, perhaps they would view something like this as clearly as you seem to, David777...and assume, like you, that the act of suicide is authored - pretty much exclusively by human action. Of course, I'm not so sure Calvinists can be doctrinally honest, and agree with you on that. Hence, my "secondary" question, to spur on some of the "why's or why not's" of this. Maybe not for you, but for some, that would be a germane topic.
Bottom line: I'm not trying to lead the witness here...I just want to know how people view this. If you feel I'm leading you, please ignore me, and just focus on the questions asked in the poll.
thanks
ps: David777 -- you didn't vote.
My other words were just to try to unerstand the "why" of people's answers to the twofold question. It was just to offer some thoughts on how to spur the discussion. If those don't help folks with explaining the "why", please, just pass over them. I don't mean to confuse the issue...but I am interested in the "backup" for the "Yes's or No's".
For some folks, perhaps they would view something like this as clearly as you seem to, David777...and assume, like you, that the act of suicide is authored - pretty much exclusively by human action. Of course, I'm not so sure Calvinists can be doctrinally honest, and agree with you on that. Hence, my "secondary" question, to spur on some of the "why's or why not's" of this. Maybe not for you, but for some, that would be a germane topic.
Bottom line: I'm not trying to lead the witness here...I just want to know how people view this. If you feel I'm leading you, please ignore me, and just focus on the questions asked in the poll.
thanks
ps: David777 -- you didn't vote.
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ForumAddict
Member
I will have to second David. The options are too limited. Depends if they are a Christian or not.
It's about as simple a question as I've asked on these forums.
What other options would you have put in the poll?
It's either a sin, or it's not. You either go to hell for it, or you don't.
Am I missing something?
Here, how 'bout I clear this up: let's assume, for the sake of this poll, that the person doing this is a Christian, or would call themselves a Christian.
ForumAddict
Member
The options provided do not take this into consideration.
If it were a Christian (or not) then yes it is a sin, and a Christian would not go to Hell, and a non Christian would.
well...thanks for allowing me to clarify that I am assuming we're talking about Christians here. I assumed since this was "Talk Jesus" that we might all have assumed that...but, that's a leap on my part. My apologies.
So, you're a "Yes. No." If you don't mind voting...I'm curious to look at the common responses once a group of people weigh-in on this.
Lastly - do you have any scriptures or other backup for the view that you're taking, that they're going to hell?
ForumAddict
Member
1. "I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish." John 10:28.
• This is an unconditional guarantee.
• Eternal life means saved for eternity.
• What does "never perish" mean?
2. "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." Philippians 1:6.
• Christ will perform His work in us to the Second Coming.
3. "The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD... Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand ... The LORD .. forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever." Psalms 37:23-28.
• Four times God tells us that He keeps us saved.
4. "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38,39.
• For a born again believer to be lost, he must somehow be separated from the love of God, and become an object of God's wrath. Paul says that this is impossible.
5. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." Hebrews 7:25. "to the uttermost" means "forever."
6. "By his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." Hebrews 9:12.
• Redemption means to buy back by paying a price. Since we have an eternal redemption, we are redeemed for all eternity.
7. "... receive the promise of eternal inheritance." Hebrews 9:15.
• Our inheritance is for eternity.
• Our eternal inheritance is promised by God.
8. "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly." 1 Corinthians 15:49.
• "Shall" means that it is a certainty that we will bear the heavenly image.
9. "To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 1:4,5.
• Six times God tells us that we are secure forever.
• "Fadeth not away" means perpetual.
10. "I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." 2 Timothy 1:12.
• Paul had committed the keeping of his soul to Christ. He was sure that Christ would keep him saved to his heavenly kingdom.
11. "The Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom..." 2 Timothy 4:18.
• The Lord will deliver us and preserve us.
12. "Who shall also confirm you unto the END, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful ..." 1 Corinthians 1:8,9.
13. "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." Colossians 3:4.
• Ye shall appear with Christ in glory, no if's or but's.
14. "This is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life." 1 John 2:25.
"In hope of eternal life which God, that cannot lie, promised.." Titus 1:2.
• God has promised eternal life to us, and He cannot lie.
15. "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37
• If we come to Jesus Christ for salvation, He will not cast us out of salvation.
16. "If our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." 2 Cor. 5:1.
• We know that if our body dies, we go to heaven for eternity.
• This is an unconditional guarantee.
• Eternal life means saved for eternity.
• What does "never perish" mean?
2. "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." Philippians 1:6.
• Christ will perform His work in us to the Second Coming.
3. "The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD... Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand ... The LORD .. forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever." Psalms 37:23-28.
• Four times God tells us that He keeps us saved.
4. "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38,39.
• For a born again believer to be lost, he must somehow be separated from the love of God, and become an object of God's wrath. Paul says that this is impossible.
5. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." Hebrews 7:25. "to the uttermost" means "forever."
6. "By his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." Hebrews 9:12.
• Redemption means to buy back by paying a price. Since we have an eternal redemption, we are redeemed for all eternity.
7. "... receive the promise of eternal inheritance." Hebrews 9:15.
• Our inheritance is for eternity.
• Our eternal inheritance is promised by God.
8. "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly." 1 Corinthians 15:49.
• "Shall" means that it is a certainty that we will bear the heavenly image.
9. "To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 1:4,5.
• Six times God tells us that we are secure forever.
• "Fadeth not away" means perpetual.
10. "I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." 2 Timothy 1:12.
• Paul had committed the keeping of his soul to Christ. He was sure that Christ would keep him saved to his heavenly kingdom.
11. "The Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom..." 2 Timothy 4:18.
• The Lord will deliver us and preserve us.
12. "Who shall also confirm you unto the END, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful ..." 1 Corinthians 1:8,9.
13. "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." Colossians 3:4.
• Ye shall appear with Christ in glory, no if's or but's.
14. "This is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life." 1 John 2:25.
"In hope of eternal life which God, that cannot lie, promised.." Titus 1:2.
• God has promised eternal life to us, and He cannot lie.
15. "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37
• If we come to Jesus Christ for salvation, He will not cast us out of salvation.
16. "If our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." 2 Cor. 5:1.
• We know that if our body dies, we go to heaven for eternity.
Dear S.I.E.
Just want to clear up this point S.I.E.
"and assume, like you, that the act of suicide is authored - pretty much exclusively by human action. Of course, I'm not so sure Calvinists can be doctrinally honest, and agree with you on that"
Black stocking Calvinists think that every human choice is the very will of God. Adam fell because it was God's will that he fell. That is the doctrine of the black stocking Calvinists. Of course suicide is the will of God S.I.E. You will have to do some research on this.
Five point Calvinists do not agree with this extension of God's will
they restrict it to election. They allow for some human choices.
I think there may be other variations on this theme in Calvinism, I am no expert on this. I restrict myself purely to the point of election and the scriptural proof.
Just want to clear up this point S.I.E.
"and assume, like you, that the act of suicide is authored - pretty much exclusively by human action. Of course, I'm not so sure Calvinists can be doctrinally honest, and agree with you on that"
Black stocking Calvinists think that every human choice is the very will of God. Adam fell because it was God's will that he fell. That is the doctrine of the black stocking Calvinists. Of course suicide is the will of God S.I.E. You will have to do some research on this.
Five point Calvinists do not agree with this extension of God's will
they restrict it to election. They allow for some human choices.
I think there may be other variations on this theme in Calvinism, I am no expert on this. I restrict myself purely to the point of election and the scriptural proof.
No one knows the answer to this question. This is just one of those things God left out of the bible for our own good.
If God said we go to hell if we commit suicide, imagine how more heartbroken family and loved ones would be when someone they love commits suicide? Imagine the destruction that would go on in their head. It would be to much for any of us to handle alone.
If God said it isn't counted against us on judgement day, then the suicide rate would sky rocket. They would sacrifice themselves in order to leave the world. They would just give up. People would be killing themselves for very stupid reasons, like if they are bored.
It does not say, because in this case the fear of the unknown keeps us from doing something stupid. It helps us stay in the fight. We are needed here, and won't be here if we killed ourselves.
However the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Unbelief and denial pretty much, anything that causes you to put yourself above God.
So all together, It is obviously a sin because it is murder and an act of hate against yourself and the entire world. If you go to hell for it depends on if you have accepted salvation or not. If you have, then yes. If you have not, then no. This is a possibility, but really no one can answer this question and back it up.
If God said we go to hell if we commit suicide, imagine how more heartbroken family and loved ones would be when someone they love commits suicide? Imagine the destruction that would go on in their head. It would be to much for any of us to handle alone.
If God said it isn't counted against us on judgement day, then the suicide rate would sky rocket. They would sacrifice themselves in order to leave the world. They would just give up. People would be killing themselves for very stupid reasons, like if they are bored.
It does not say, because in this case the fear of the unknown keeps us from doing something stupid. It helps us stay in the fight. We are needed here, and won't be here if we killed ourselves.
However the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Unbelief and denial pretty much, anything that causes you to put yourself above God.
So all together, It is obviously a sin because it is murder and an act of hate against yourself and the entire world. If you go to hell for it depends on if you have accepted salvation or not. If you have, then yes. If you have not, then no. This is a possibility, but really no one can answer this question and back it up.
thanks for those verses ForumAddict! Very thorough! I might guess that you are a "5-point Calvinist"...in that those verses speak to the idea that you can't lose your salvation? I wonder if you view the act of suicide to be human-authored, or something that somehow fits into God's design?
David777 -- good distinction between the spectrum within Calvinism. I believed that even 5-pointers would have laid the acts of man on God's design/will. I didn't know that 5-pointers would consider something like suicide to be authored by man. I'm not saying your wrong in saying that...but in my own experience in discussions with 5-pointers, I haven't gotten the sense that they would have agreed with the "authored by man" concept.
But like you, I'm no expert on Calvinism.
David777 -- good distinction between the spectrum within Calvinism. I believed that even 5-pointers would have laid the acts of man on God's design/will. I didn't know that 5-pointers would consider something like suicide to be authored by man. I'm not saying your wrong in saying that...but in my own experience in discussions with 5-pointers, I haven't gotten the sense that they would have agreed with the "authored by man" concept.
But like you, I'm no expert on Calvinism.
ForumAddict
Member
Yes you might, but you would be totally incorrect. I follow God and His Word, not man made 'ism's.
Ok Tennessee...didn't mean to put you on the defense. It was my (apparently blunt) way of asking you to share your heart more on this subject. What you decided to share, is that you follow God, not man.
Oki-doki then. Nothing more to learn from you, if you don't want to share it...and that's ok, if you're not ready or willing. It was a question from me to you, is all....not an accusation.
I hope to one day find my faith as pure and dissuaded from the culture that surrounds me, as you.
ForumAddict
Member
No offense was taken! Sorry, I didn't mean to come across that way! My sincere apologies.Ok Tennessee...didn't mean to put you on the defense. It was my (apparently blunt) way of asking you to share your heart more on this subject. What you decided to share, is that you follow God, not man.
Oki-doki then. Nothing more to learn from you, if you don't want to share it...and that's ok, if you're not ready or willing. It was a question from me to you, is all....not an accusation.
I hope to one day find my faith as pure and dissuaded from the culture that surrounds me, as you.
Life is too fast right at the moment and I need to slow down and smell the roses.
Brighthouse
Active
Have you considered, thou shalt not kill? 1 Cor 6:19-20 People sometimes think by killing self,that there life has now ended.True in this world it has. But since we will be spending so much more time in the Spirit realm,then we ever did in the natural realm,one should carefully consider this as well!
To those who do not believe in the Lord,I met one such man the other day,who like many has considered this,because times are so tough. Since I believe in Jesus,and I myself believe in heaven and hell,if I died, and should be wrong,I have nothing to lose!But if you die in unbelief and you are wrong!!
Well you will spend the rest of your days in not such a grand place! Killing is wrong, because killing is what the enemy looked to do to Jesus,the enemy got his way with Judas,to me killing oneself is the ultimate act of Betraying. Betraying means breaking ones faith,cutting oneself off from God who made us,being disloyal.And to this end Jesus himself said!!(Matt 26:24) WOE to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed!! It would have been better for that man not to have even been born! I think this will answer your question well.
To those who do not believe in the Lord,I met one such man the other day,who like many has considered this,because times are so tough. Since I believe in Jesus,and I myself believe in heaven and hell,if I died, and should be wrong,I have nothing to lose!But if you die in unbelief and you are wrong!!
Well you will spend the rest of your days in not such a grand place! Killing is wrong, because killing is what the enemy looked to do to Jesus,the enemy got his way with Judas,to me killing oneself is the ultimate act of Betraying. Betraying means breaking ones faith,cutting oneself off from God who made us,being disloyal.And to this end Jesus himself said!!(Matt 26:24) WOE to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed!! It would have been better for that man not to have even been born! I think this will answer your question well.
RJ
Active
I would think that most people who comitt suicide did not have a realtionship with Christ much less saved.
But I did say most and from the time man has been comitting suicide I would say that some did have a relationship with the Lord and , in fact, they were very much saved.
Who are we to say, that is between that individual and God. I would like to say that I know the Lord and love him too much to comitt suicide but, I am, so far, not terminally ill and racked with unbelievable pain. I am sure there are many who have ended their lives like that, I am sure some where Kavorkian assisted.
God has also told us that the only unforgivable sin is unbelief!
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Brighthouse
Active
I was not even talking about you RJ,I really was speaking to Fraction concerning his thoughts,but since you believe one can be saved commiting this act of betrayal, you are going to have to back this up with scripture for me. If you believe for one second Judas is in heaven, ah ok, you have a right to your opinion! But then what Jesus said in Matt 26:24 was for who? All CAN be saved,and you are quite correct,if a person is in the taking of his or her own life,and then suddenly repents,Only God can judge them,I do not! But if one is like Judas,then as Jesus said himself,it would have been better that that person never would have been born.So you make a good point!! But I am talking about the act itself,not the thoughts of the one taking them.blessing.