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Is God just in not punishing Christians for their sins?

Is God just in not punishing Christians for their sins?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • No

    Votes: 1 50.0%

  • Total voters
    2
Active
God forgives Christians of their sins and sends them off to eternal bliss. God punishes non-Christians and sends them off to eternal punishment in hell. God punishes His Son, for the sins of Christians.

Is this Just?

Some Christians here say God is unjust. We all deserve to be punished for our sin. Jesus took our punishment. God is therefore unjust on Christians and just on non-Christians.

On face value, this appears to be a correct statement. But upon interrogation, you will see it is not a sound statement.

Scripture is crystal clear that God is just and righteous in all His ways. Deut 32:4, 1 Kings 3:28, Job 34:12, Job 37:23, Psalm 51:4, Psalm 89:14, Psalm 98:8-9, Psalm 140:12, Isa 5:16, Isa 9:7, Isa 30:18, 2 Chron 19:7, 1 John 1:5, Psalm 145:17.

So, how is God just in that He does not punish Christians directly for their sin?

One has to consider the following facts:

1. God's plan for mankind was to have sons and daughters in His house. For this a blood covenant / the cross was necessary. A creation would become a part of their Creator's direct family. Mankind was planned in Christ before the foundations of the earth Eph 1:4

2. God has given mankind a weak flesh that is prone to sin and He has placed the devil with us. We are from day one born into an environment where good and evil takes place.

3. God wills that all be saved 1 Tim 2:4. Jesus died for this sins of all. Every person has free will to repent of their sins and receive forgiveness or allow their hearts to harden and not repent of their sins.

4. Hell is a place of punishment, but since it is eternal Matt 25:46, it speaks more to being a home for those that are wicked and do not want to repent of their sins.

5. In the OT God separated repentant sinner from unrepentant with paradise / Abrahams bosom. As described by Jesus in Luke 16.

6. In prisons, if someone is properly rehabilitated they get a lessor sentence or are set free.

Now, lets consider an example:

Let's say you are a murderer. Romans want to arrest you and hang you on a cross. You come home and someone called Jesus has stolen your television set. The punishment for stealing a television set is fifteen lashes. Later in the day, you see a man on a cross called Jesus. He chose to die for your sin of murder. Will you demand the Romans give him fifteen lashes for stealing your television set?

The greatest act of love is to lay your life down John 15:13. For all eternity we will love and welcome Jesus in our house despite however annoying He may be in the future. It is the same with us. God expects an equal devotion from us to Him. If you think any less of a devotion is required, then Christianity has flown over your head.

You are not a Christian because you have said some magical words. Because you are in the correct religion. Because you have faith in the unseen being seen like a faith in unicorns.

You are a Christian because you have followed Matt 16:24, Rev 2:10, Psalm 51:17 What is a Christian and how do you become one?.

Conclusion:

It is not just to punish someone who has truthfully repented of their sins and are prepared to be a martyr for Jesus if it was asked of them.
 
Active
DO you not think you deserve hell me to, and only by the grace of God we are forgiven, any other way to think is works base salvation and will blind a person thinkingg they are good enough on there own to get to heaven.

Only by GOds grace do we not get what we deserve.

Dave, please read the OP and quote the section you disagree with. I explain why I do not believe God is unjust.

No, it is not a works based salvation. It takes more then works to get saved and I do not believe in the need for works to stay saved, I am not anti-OSAS.
 
Active
Greetings,

Language can be pesky.

The Lord does not deal with us according to our deserved punishment

Hi, I have moved your post here as I do not want to derail a thread on OSAS with my reply.

I feel true justice and being 'just' is a lot more complex then simply expecting sin to have a punishment.

At face value one could argue the following:

1. Steal candy from a candy store = 2 lashes.
2. Steal bread from an orphan = 30 lashes.
3. Break an arm in a fit of rage = 300 lashes.

Now, what if the following were true

1. The person who stole candy, decided to come forward to the owner, confess and return half the candy stolen. Asked if they could clean the store to repay.

Does this person still deserve 2 lashes?

2. The thief that stole bread from the orphan is overcome with guilt. They happen to be a qualified seamstress and sew new clothes for the orphan. They return, apologize, offer clothes and an ongoing friendship to help them out on a weekly basis with their needs.

Does this person still deserve 30 lashes?

3. The person that lost their temper, returns and apologizes. They purchase a brace to reinforce the broken arm as best they can. They help the injured person with their daily chores. Befriend them and oversee their daily needs until they fully recover.

Does this person still deserve 300 lashes?

____________________________

Matt 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
 
Loyal
God is not a just God because you can not be just and forgiving and merciful and graceful at the same time, a justice requires payment or punishment for sin or crime committed God gives us grace,

we have exhausted this conversation have a good night I hope my last post on this has shown you some light,
 
Active
God is not a just God because you can not be just and forgiving and merciful and graceful at the same time, a justice requires payment or punishment for sin or crime committed God gives us grace,

we have exhausted this conversation have a good night I hope my last post on this has shown you some light,

I feel you have not read the OP. Let me know when you have and you will see why I firmly disagree with you.

This is a discussion forum. Not X where you post unsupported one liner opinions that sound correct. It is heretical to state that God is unjust.
 
Active
but justice has been satisfied in and through His Son.

Indeed Jesus paid for our sins on the cross. But there is more to it.

It is 'expected' of a 'good' God to make a way of reconciliation for those who are after His heart. Who, like Him, also hate what is evil Rom 12:9.

The cross is evidence of God's love for us more then it is of satisfying a condition for 'justice' of our sins, in my view.

How we receive (or not) is something we will all be accountable for.... and what we did with the grace abounding where sin had once.

Agreed!
 
Member
God forgives Christians of their sins and sends them off to eternal bliss. God punishes non-Christians and sends them off to eternal punishment in hell. God punishes His Son, for the sins of Christians.

Is this Just?

Some Christians here say God is unjust. We all deserve to be punished for our sin. Jesus took our punishment. God is therefore unjust on Christians and just on non-Christians.

On face value, this appears to be a correct statement. But upon interrogation, you will see it is not a sound statement.

Scripture is crystal clear that God is just and righteous in all His ways. Deut 32:4, 1 Kings 3:28, Job 34:12, Job 37:23, Psalm 51:4, Psalm 89:14, Psalm 98:8-9, Psalm 140:12, Isa 5:16, Isa 9:7, Isa 30:18, 2 Chron 19:7, 1 John 1:5, Psalm 145:17.

So, how is God just in that He does not punish Christians directly for their sin?

One has to consider the following facts:

1. God's plan for mankind was to have sons and daughters in His house. For this a blood covenant / the cross was necessary. A creation would become a part of their Creator's direct family. Mankind was planned in Christ before the foundations of the earth Eph 1:4

2. God has given mankind a weak flesh that is prone to sin and He has placed the devil with us. We are from day one born into an environment where good and evil takes place.

3. God wills that all be saved 1 Tim 2:4. Jesus died for this sins of all. Every person has free will to repent of their sins and receive forgiveness or allow their hearts to harden and not repent of their sins.

4. Hell is a place of punishment, but since it is eternal Matt 25:46, it speaks more to being a home for those that are wicked and do not want to repent of their sins.

5. In the OT God separated repentant sinner from unrepentant with paradise / Abrahams bosom. As described by Jesus in Luke 16.

6. In prisons, if someone is properly rehabilitated they get a lessor sentence or are set free.

Now, lets consider an example:

Let's say you are a murderer. Romans want to arrest you and hang you on a cross. You come home and someone called Jesus has stolen your television set. The punishment for stealing a television set is fifteen lashes. Later in the day, you see a man on a cross called Jesus. He chose to die for your sin of murder. Will you demand the Romans give him fifteen lashes for stealing your television set?

The greatest act of love is to lay your life down John 15:13. For all eternity we will love and welcome Jesus in our house despite however annoying He may be in the future. It is the same with us. God expects an equal devotion from us to Him. If you think any less of a devotion is required, then Christianity has flown over your head.

You are not a Christian because you have said some magical words. Because you are in the correct religion. Because you have faith in the unseen being seen like a faith in unicorns.

You are a Christian because you have followed Matt 16:24, Rev 2:10, Psalm 51:17 What is a Christian and how do you become one?.

Conclusion:

It is not just to punish someone who has truthfully repented of their sins and are prepared to be a martyr for Jesus if it was asked of them.

Someone who has repented to the remission of sin, is then replaced, and is no longer flesh but light and part of the Lord:

7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. 8For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light, 9for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness, and truth.…

However to repent to the remission of sin I will testify is an impossible task for humans. It can not be done by man.

It is cause man does not know good from evil, is not the judge of what is sin and what is not, and do not remember all the sins even if he knows they are sins.

The sins would be thousands upon thousands, many more than any man could remember.


That does not mean people should not repent, in fact repentance is the way to show God we are searching for Him Who is purity, cleaning is the way.

7 Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.…


When we are doing work that He welcomes, He will grant miracles at will that will make what is impossible possible.

He may give us a new heart that knows good from evil, that will feel sick before sin, and great relief and Love at repentance.

He may grant us forgiveness for sins we forgot and thus could not repent from

He may grant to destroy the evil seed opposite the heart, that will feed evil into the heart of man, that is the sin of Adam.

At that time we are welcomed lost sons returned. We will then be taken to the wedding feast, at the wedding we will see a chosen lady if we are men. It is then that we start to know the truth:

1 The elder, To the chosen lady and her children, whom I love in the truth— and not I alone, but also all who know the truth— 2 because of the truth that abides in us and will be with us forever:…

Anyone who has not been accepted/ welcomed a lost son returned, and has not been to the wedding feast should not claim to have repented to the remission of sin.

Cause Fathers banning from the Kingdom is only valid as long as the sin of Adam is there. He does not want us to cling to it. And when it is gone we are welcomed back.
But Father has let me know that there are those that are in heaven but do not see it.

To see it we must have eye sight:

21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 22The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!…
 
Active
I find op to be a ridiculous question.
When does God NOT punish a Christian for sins?
Christians pay in this life for their sins. Even though they receive forgiveness,they still pay the price.
Crimes against humanity,even though forgiven, they still go to prison.
Sins against their bodies,they are left with health issues.
Lost peoples sins follow them into eternity. The save will pay the price before getting there.
God is just in all his ways,in all he does.
 
Active
When does God NOT punish a Christian for sins?

God does not punish a CHRISTian, at all.

What God does is reward and discipline and prune.

Jesus talks about the "vines that are in Him".... they will be "trimmed"...

And that can be : Hebrews 12:6

It can also be, the fact of just living a strong walk of faith inside an evil world......as doing that right, with consistency, is also growth, in the Spirit.

Now, if you are a Calvinist, then when the Devil brings something to destroy you, .. you'll believe that God is causing it or allowing it, and that is a big mistake.
Why?
Because if you are deceived by Calvinism, and now believe that everything is predestined... like Cancer, and blindness, and poverty, and your children getting sick....
The, if that is what you believe, then you will not be able to pray for deliverance, or for healing, as how can you pray to God to solve it, when Calvin has you deceived and believing that God caused it.......

CALVINISM is keeping you away from FAITH, and "without FAITH, it is impossible to please... God".

And, regarding "what if the Christian, is one of those who watches too much NetFlix, and other "dirty", cable TV shows, on Saturday, and then on Sunday they go and Pastor a church".

What about them?
Well, this..
"you will reap what you have sown"........so, in all cases, if you persist in carnality, then you will reap a harvest of hurt, and that is not God doing that to you......that is a spiritual law manifesting in your life, based on how you behave.
 
Active
God does not punish a CHRISTian, at all.

What God does is reward and discipline and prune.

Jesus talks about the "vines that are in Him".... they will be "trimmed"...

And that can be : Hebrews 12:6

It can also be, the fact of just living a strong walk of faith inside an evil world......as doing that right, with consistency, is also growth, in the Spirit.

Now, if you are a Calvinist, then when the Devil brings something to destroy you, .. you'll believe that God is causing it or allowing it, and that is a big mistake.
Why?
Because if you are deceived by Calvinism, and now believe that everything is predestined... like Cancer, and blindness, and poverty, and your children getting sick....
The, if that is what you believe, then you will not be able to pray for deliverance, or for healing, as how can you pray to God to solve it, when Calvin has you deceived and believing that God caused it.......

CALVINISM is keeping you away from FAITH, and "without FAITH, it is impossible to please... God".

And, regarding "what if the Christian, is one of those who watches too much NetFlix, and other "dirty", cable TV shows, on Saturday, and then on Sunday they go and Pastor a church".

What about them?
Well, this..
"you will reap what you have sown"........so, in all cases, if you persist in carnality, then you will reap a harvest of hurt, and that is not God doing that to you......that is a spiritual law manifesting in your life, based on how you behave.

Where did Calvinism come in?
 
Active
God does not punish a CHRISTian, at all.

What God does is reward and discipline and prune.

Jesus talks about the "vines that are in Him".... they will be "trimmed"...

And that can be : Hebrews 12:6

It can also be, the fact of just living a strong walk of faith inside an evil world......as doing that right, with consistency, is also growth, in the Spirit.

Now, if you are a Calvinist, then when the Devil brings something to destroy you, .. you'll believe that God is causing it or allowing it, and that is a big mistake.
Why?
Because if you are deceived by Calvinism, and now believe that everything is predestined... like Cancer, and blindness, and poverty, and your children getting sick....
The, if that is what you believe, then you will not be able to pray for deliverance, or for healing, as how can you pray to God to solve it, when Calvin has you deceived and believing that God caused it.......

CALVINISM is keeping you away from FAITH, and "without FAITH, it is impossible to please... God".

And, regarding "what if the Christian, is one of those who watches too much NetFlix, and other "dirty", cable TV shows, on Saturday, and then on Sunday they go and Pastor a church".

What about them?
Well, this..
"you will reap what you have sown"........so, in all cases, if you persist in carnality, then you will reap a harvest of hurt, and that is not God doing that to you......that is a spiritual law manifesting in your life, based on how you behave.

If God does not chastise/punish you,then you are not his. You are a b*****d
 
Active
Where did Calvinism come in?

Calvin decided that he would blame God for evil.

So, Calvin's God "pre-destined" Hitler, Iran's Rockets, Cancer, Child Molesting, Murder, ............. and also, everyone who went to Hell today, and for the last 2000 yrs........according to John Calvin......God Chose them before they were BORN.... to go to hell and the lake of Fire.

So, = That Calvin.

He's the one who FORGOT that the DEVIL exists to create evil..........
 
Active
Calvin decided that he would blame God for evil.

So, Calvin's God "pre-destined" Hitler, Iran's Rockets, Cancer, Child Molesting, Murder, ............. and also, everyone who went to Hell today, and for the last 2000 yrs........according to John Calvin......God Chose them before they were BORN.... to go to hell and the lake of Fire.

So, = That Calvin.

He's the one who FORGOT that the DEVIL exists to create evil..........

I know what it is. How did you get it from my post?
Again,if you’re not chastised for your sins,you’re not his child. Chastise means to punish
 
Active
So he punishes his children just for the fun of it?

God does not punish the Born again.

God has already PUNISHED His Son for the sin of the Born again.

See the : Cross of Christ for that Explanation.
 
Active
Why and When He does anything is largely not known to us.
Who says a person isn't being punished? By what authority does anyone have to decide when anyone IS punished by God? No one.
 
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