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Is Ephesians 5:22-33 "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." outdated?

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Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
I'm saying that as a single woman, no man will be in a position to say to me one way or the other to cover my head no matter What I'm doing. My husband would be and I won't be going to a church that requires a woman To wear a prayer veil.

Greeting Sue, I replied based on your comments above, it came over as 'I will not, full stop' as in the conversation of women today saying when they get married they will not obey their husband.

As for wearing a prayer veil what if your pastor requested it?

And Why would I be praying in public just because I'm in a place of worship with other believers. I don't pray out loud. I bow my head during corporate prayer led by a man. In fact -- I'll add This --in one of the churches that I Do go to -- pastor was encouraging prayer by anyone while we were praying as a body for a given situation. CAn't remember what it was presently. But there were a couple of women who stood and prayed on a given subject. Neither of them were wearing a prayer shawl. Neither of them had husbands who went to the church. And I bowed my head and listened silently while they prayed. I Did and always Do have the opportunity to pray silently while others are praying out loud.

You are diligently trying to be right with God, Bless you.

Yes, I Do follow the traditions of the group I'm worshiping with. I'm part of that group. Probably the only thing I Don't follow along with is 'raising holy hands in praise' Because I've never felt led To do that. I'm a fairly passive worshiper.

Although I understand what you are saying Sue, I don't understand it on the basis of what you said earlier, I wouldn't dress or have my hair a certain way just because that is what the rest in the group do. I like you am a sheep in the fold, but I don't follow the sheep, I follow the shepherd, Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, He alone is the one we are to follow.

You sound like you're suggesting that I'm somehow mildly rebellious?! Or maybe I'm going to the wrong church?! I Should be looking for a church who's pastor teaches the wearing of a prayer shawl? Well -- of the various churches that I've gone to over the past 5 yrs or so -- none of them have taught that passage. Probably because none of those churches had women who prayed or prophesied in public.

If what I have said has come over to you incorrectly, not as intended, I apologise Sue. I wasn't suggesting anything you have stated above.

Forget the prayer shawl, the RCC use this also, I once went to a Christening and the minister said to the family with all present, the child that had just been Christened will have the same prayer shawl when they go to heaven. I can hear your reply already.

This is where I stand, based on scripture, there is a lot of talk of the prayer shawl here, women covering their heads, all of this was OT, what we should always ask ourself is What would Jesus say if He walked into this conversation right now?

He would not look to see if you were in filthy rags, he would not look at your hair, or for a prayer shawl, He would be looking at peoples hearts, are they right with God.

So for me, although I replied to some of the comments, the issue being discussed id void, not applicable.

I put this in the link below, I think it fits regarding our worship.


Psalm 100:1-5 (NIV2011)
1 Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth.
2 Worship the LORD with gladness; come before him with joyful songs.
3 Know that the LORD is God. It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, the sheep of his pasture.
4 Enter his gates with thanksgiving and his courts with praise; give thanks to him and praise his name.
5 For the LORD is good and his love endures forever; his faithfulness continues through all generations.


We enter His gates with thanksgiving, not by going to church, but by throwing open the doors of our heart, where ever we are.

Worshipping from the Heart

Bless you.
 
Loyal
Men are often the same. Some men wear hats in church. Some men wear hats when they pray. There has probably been a time or two when I forgot to remove mine, but I try to.
As a rule, I generally don't wear hats to church.



Agreed, but I feel there is a difference between a head "covering" (i.e. hat, scarf, etc..) and a face hiding "niqāb/hijab" that only shows the eyes.

The face covering around 'this' area geographically -- do not cover the face -- just wrap around the entire hair and neck area. But it is distinctly the American version of the Muslim head-dressing. There Have been comments on FB as to the big picture plans of the Muslim people. They do intend to 'take' this country.
 
Member
To any one do you wear sandals or a different shoe? God's Word tells us to be shod with sandals correct ? Do put on an over coat , Notice it does not say anything about the weather it simply says "not put on two coats"
Mar 6:9 But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.
The above conversation is very much like the way this topic goes.....Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD. cherry picking
 
Loyal
@Reba1 -- considering the area of the world where Scripture was written -- sandals would be appropriate -- back in the day it was probably bare feet or sandals.

Yes, there are those who Love to 'cherry pick' - just because they Can -- to get a reaction from people. They're missing the Importance of God's Word.

There are those who feel more secure in following rules and regulations than making choices. Relationships of the heart can be scarry. Vulnerability.
 
Active
Is Ephesians 5:22-33 "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." outdated?

Is this portion of scripture irrelevant to us today? Was it simply applicable due to the culture for the time?

Ephesians 5:22-33 (KJV)
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
Yes, I think this passage is totally outdated; which is another wonderful example of how God's wisdom is the same yesterday, today and forever - hallelujah!!! Man's values change like the weather. 200 years ago slavery was fine, 100 years ago the class system treated the poor like trash, 50 years ago racism was accepted. Oh if only our fathers and ancestors had read their Bibles.

Please read this passage and then re-read it. It's not a wife beater's charter, it's actually more onerous on the husband than his wife. Are there any husbands in here that love their wife as Jesus loves the Church? And let's get rid of this notion that girls are equal to boys with just different bits. That's like saying blacks are the same as whites - no they're not! Get over it and then celebrate it, no whitey has ever run a sub 10 second 100 metres, white music is quite different from black music, guess which I prefer.

No, our sisters are not equal, just different with different roles within the marriage. Look at v30, that's how close Jesus and you are, and that's what a husband and wife should strive towards for their relationship. There's no place for selfishness (v33), a husband is to love his wife as he loves himself, and in that way they are both equal.

The Apostles Paul gives more advice on this -
Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I Corinthians 7:3‭-‬5 NKJV

Sex is an integral part in the marriage. If a married couple seeks the level of closeness and intimacy described in the Ephesians passage then love making is the route. Tantalise your spouse with fun and adventure, if you run out of ideas there's plenty on YouTube. Look at that last bit of the Corinthians passage, boredom, a rut and libido loss is fertile ground for Satan to introduce the notion of an affair.

So rather than the Bible being an outdated bastion of uptight, inhibited, Victorian values, no the Bible really should be every marriage guidance counselor's text book.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
Yes, I think this passage is totally outdated; which is another wonderful example of how God's wisdom is the same yesterday, today and forever - hallelujah!!! Man's values change like the weather. 200 years ago slavery was fine, 100 years ago the class system treated the poor like trash, 50 years ago racism was accepted. Oh if only our fathers and ancestors had read their Bibles.

Please read this passage and then re-read it. It's not a wife beater's charter, it's actually more onerous on the husband than his wife. Are there any husbands in here that love their wife as Jesus loves the Church? And let's get rid of this notion that girls are equal to boys with just different bits. That's like saying blacks are the same as whites - no they're not! Get over it and then celebrate it, no whitey has ever run a sub 10 second 100 metres, white music is quite different from black music, guess which I prefer.

No, our sisters are not equal, just different with different roles within the marriage. Look at v30, that's how close Jesus and you are, and that's what a husband and wife should strive towards for their relationship. There's no place for selfishness (v33), a husband is to love his wife as he loves himself, and in that way they are both equal.

The Apostles Paul gives more advice on this -
Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I Corinthians 7:3‭-‬5 NKJV

I am with you 100% here Andy, people either do not understand the context, do not want to understand it, or are to full of their own ideas they are not really interested in what God has to explain to them, that is the believers.

But then there are many none believing couples who are not interested in what God says, and God's Words are rejected by them, The Word is folly to those who are perishing.

Then sadly we have the saved wife and unsaved husband, or the reverse situation, as we know this can be a battleground and so often the saved soul gives in to the unsaved one.


Sex is an integral part in the marriage. If a married couple seeks the level of closeness and intimacy described in the Ephesians passage then love making is the route. Tantalise your spouse with fun and adventure, if you run out of ideas there's plenty on YouTube. Look at that last bit of the Corinthians passage, boredom, a rut and libido loss is fertile ground for Satan to introduce the notion of an affair.

This rings alarm bells to me Andy, viewing plenty of ideas on YouTube, maybe you are thinking differently but I visualise warning signs, lust and fantasy, toys and more.

I personally do not see the need for such things, I have had sex since 15 and never run out of ideas, trouble was as a young sinner I had to many ideas. But even after being saved I have never had these kind of problems, I stopped looking at women as sex machines and started looking at them as someone's loved one. To look at another woman and have sexual thoughts is sin.

So rather than the Bible being an outdated bastion of uptight, inhibited, Victorian values, no the Bible really should be every marriage guidance counselor's text book.

So true brother.
 
Active
I am with you 100% here Andy, people either do not understand the context, do not want to understand it, or are to full of their own ideas they are not really interested in what God has to explain to them, that is the believers.

But then there are many none believing couples who are not interested in what God says, and God's Words are rejected by them, The Word is folly to those who are perishing.

Then sadly we have the saved wife and unsaved husband, or the reverse situation, as we know this can be a battleground and so often the saved soul gives in to the unsaved one.





This rings alarm bells to me Andy, viewing plenty of ideas on YouTube, maybe you are thinking differently but I visualise warning signs, lust and fantasy, toys and more.

I personally do not see the need for such things, I have had sex since 15 and never run out of ideas, trouble was as a young sinner I had to many ideas. But even after being saved I have never had these kind of problems, I stopped looking at women as sex machines and started looking at them as someone's loved one. To look at another woman and have sexual thoughts is sin.




So true brother.
This Ephesians passage is written in such a way that the glancing reader may well feel it's misogynistic, which is why I asked that it's read and then re-read. You'll soon see it in a completely different light. Hopefully there will be a lightbulb moment when you think .... hmmm .. yes I can see where Apostle Paul is coming from; yes it makes sense.

The advice to the couple is that he has to love, she has to respect him. If this is waning, the marriage is in trouble. I suspect there are too many couples taking each other for granted. They stay together for the sake of the kids which in terms is saying, I want a divorce but not yet. Others are there simply to honour their marriage vows, their marriage has become like a bad car finance agreement, something they'd like to get out of but they're stuck with it. Neither of these scenarios are marriages as God intended them. I've known at least a few couples split because of an affair, the innocent spouse is devastated at the betrayal but I've wondered to myself, did he or she really give it 110% or did they just simply expect unconditional loyalty? Like I warned in my last post, boredom, a rut and libido loss is fertile ground for Satan to introduce the notion of an affair. Ignore that at your peril and don't think it won't happen to you!

I'm sounding negative but I don't mean to be. What I'm saying is, expect more, demand more but above all, give more! Isn't that what Paul was thinking when he wrote: 'Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.' Ephesians 5:33 NKJV

Husbands and wives need to love and cherish each other, if that's missing life becomes a drag. Another symptom of a marriage in a rut is that often God is left out, no longer praying together with fervour and passion, no longer sharing passages from the Bible and discussing and encouraging each other, rather both retreat into their shells and soon you're like housemates.

If this rings an alarm bell, stop and turn this ship around before it's too late. Re-seduce your spouse, tantalise and revitalise your marriage, your bed and your whole lives. How? Get back to Ephesians ch 5, love and respect.

Lastly, ditch the theoretical idyll of equality that doesn't in practice work. If all eleven players in a soccer team were midfielders, no centre forwards, no defence, no goal keeper, what would be the inevitable result? A team is built of members with different functions working closely together towards a common purpose, marriage is no different.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
This Ephesians passage is written in such a way that the glancing reader may well feel it's misogynistic, which is why I asked that it's read and then re-read. You'll soon see it in a completely different light. Hopefully there will be a lightbulb moment when you think .... hmmm .. yes I can see where Apostle Paul is coming from; yes it makes sense.

The advice to the couple is that he has to love, she has to respect him. If this is waning, the marriage is in trouble. I suspect there are too many couples taking each other for granted. They stay together for the sake of the kids which in terms is saying, I want a divorce but not yet. Others are there simply to honour their marriage vows, their marriage has become like a bad car finance agreement, something they'd like to get out of but they're stuck with it. Neither of these scenarios are marriages as God intended them. I've known at least a few couples split because of an affair, the innocent spouse is devastated at the betrayal but I've wondered to myself, did he or she really give it 110% or did they just simply expect unconditional loyalty? Like I warned in my last post, boredom, a rut and libido loss is fertile ground for Satan to introduce the notion of an affair. Ignore that at your peril and don't think it won't happen to you!

I'm sounding negative but I don't mean to be. What I'm saying is, expect more, demand more but above all, give more! Isn't that what Paul was thinking when he wrote: 'Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.' Ephesians 5:33 NKJV

Husbands and wives need to love and cherish each other, if that's missing life becomes a drag. Another symptom of a marriage in a rut is that often God is left out, no longer praying together with fervour and passion, no longer sharing passages from the Bible and discussing and encouraging each other, rather both retreat into their shells and soon you're like housemates.

If this rings an alarm bell, stop and turn this ship around before it's too late. Re-seduce your spouse, tantalise and revitalise your marriage, your bed and your whole lives. How? Get back to Ephesians ch 5, love and respect.

Lastly, ditch the theoretical idyll of equality that doesn't in practice work. If all eleven players in a soccer team were midfielders, no centre forwards, no defence, no goal keeper, what would be the inevitable result? A team is built of members with different functions working closely together towards a common purpose, marriage is no different.

Hi Andy

I have no issues with the scripture brother, wuite the opposite, I agree totally with what you say a out it, it is very close to my heart, especially regarding my heartless rabbit like past, prior to accepting Jesus.

The only reason for my concern was when you referred to youtube for people to learn and experiment with sex so as not to end up bored and risking a marriage breakdown. Referring to youtube to learn and explore ways to makes interesting flagged up concerns of watching such things, lust, sex toys and more.

They were my only concerns I agree 100% of what you say relating to scripture.

Shalom
 
Member
To any one do you wear sandals or a different shoe? God's Word tells us to be shod with sandals correct ? Do put on an over coat , Notice it does not say anything about the weather it simply says "not put on two coats"
Mar 6:9 But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.
The above conversation is very much like the way this topic goes.....Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD. cherry picking
This is an example of a strawman argument.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
To any one do you wear sandals or a different shoe? God's Word tells us to be shod with sandals correct ? Do put on an over coat , Notice it does not say anything about the weather it simply says "not put on two coats"
Mar 6:9 But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.
Greetings Reba1


Ephesians 6:13-18 (NIV2011)
13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.
14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.
16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

Were sandals part of the whole armour of God, I wouldn't like to go to war in sandals. ;)
 
Active
Hi Andy

I have no issues with the scripture brother, wuite the opposite, I agree totally with what you say a out it, it is very close to my heart, especially regarding my heartless rabbit like past, prior to accepting Jesus.

The only reason for my concern was when you referred to youtube for people to learn and experiment with sex so as not to end up bored and risking a marriage breakdown. Referring to youtube to learn and explore ways to makes interesting flagged up concerns of watching such things, lust, sex toys and more.

They were my only concerns I agree 100% of what you say relating to scripture.

Shalom
Oh dear, I seem to have opened a can of worms here: not my intention. The reason I chose YouTube over say Google is that the former bans nudity and so there's less chance of chancing upon a porn site. YouTube is like any other collective portal, on it you will find good, bad and indifferent answers, the key is to ask the right question in your search.

I think that on the whole the members of TJ can be trusted to sift in order to find the quality answers they're looking for and if they come across stuff that's not what they want to see, then there's always the back button.

Ideas are a good starting point but do you know what? An even better resource is your spouse. Once you've broken some ice with a couple of suggested ideas, whether or not they appeal, barriers will drop and you can chat openly about what you both like and bluntly and honestly where your spouse is going wrong and turning you off, and then have a good laugh about it. Pillow talk in a loving and lighthearted atmosphere can be more informative than a whole series of instructional videos and text books. Show and guide your spouse around your body to show what lights you up, please, no matter how long you've married, don't expect them to know instinctively and then feel let down that they don't. Conversely ask him / her to reciprocate and ask your spouse for a guided tour.

For me a marriage is more important than a career and so it should last a lot longer. If you're in a job you hate, move. That shouldn't be an option in a marriage and so work harder on that than your career. Expect, demand and give even more than you expect and demand. If you can both fulfil that, your bond will deepen, gaps in your relationship will close and you'll both grow closer to God as you share your faith, relationship with and experience of God.

I really hope that this thread helps to avoid a reader's breakdown and instead rejuvenates the marriage of anyone feeling trapped in a rut with sex and love ebbing away into the past. That sort of marriage is not pleasing to God.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
Oh dear, I seem to have opened a can of worms here: not my intention. The reason I chose YouTube over say Google is that the former bans nudity and so there's less chance of chancing upon a porn site. YouTube is like any other collective portal, on it you will find good, bad and indifferent answers, the key is to ask the right question in your search.

I think that on the whole the members of TJ can be trusted to sift in order to find the quality answers they're looking for and if they come across stuff that's not what they want to see, then there's always the back button.

Ideas are a good starting point but do you know what? An even better resource is your spouse. Once you've broken some ice with a couple of suggested ideas, whether or not they appeal, barriers will drop and you can chat openly about what you both like and bluntly and honestly where your spouse is going wrong and turning you off, and then have a good laugh about it. Pillow talk in a loving and lighthearted atmosphere can be more informative than a whole series of instructional videos and text books. Show and guide your spouse around your body to show what lights you up, please, no matter how long you've married, don't expect them to know instinctively and then feel let down that they don't. Conversely ask him / her to reciprocate and ask your spouse for a guided tour.

For me a marriage is more important than a career and so it should last a lot longer. If you're in a job you hate, move. That shouldn't be an option in a marriage and so work harder on that than your career. Expect, demand and give even more than you expect and demand. If you can both fulfil that, your bond will deepen, gaps in your relationship will close and you'll both grow closer to God as you share your faith, relationship with and experience of God.

I really hope that this thread helps to avoid a reader's breakdown and instead rejuvenates the marriage of anyone feeling trapped in a rut with sex and love ebbing away into the past. That sort of marriage is not pleasing to God.

Greetings brother,

I don't think it is something either of us wish to dwell on Andy, the points were made, there was reason for concern, as for a right questions in a search, I am not sure what are right questions as they are very flexible at times with suggestion. I tend not to use YouTube much, as I have had the unfortunate experience of seeing something I didn't want to see. I agree there is the back button, but I found it best to instantly shut Youtube down.

Again I agree with your comments Andy, most on TJ would be trusted to sift through these things, but there is always the person easily tempted to have a look and go further, and there are a growing number of new members and those on milk.

Back to main theme of the topic.

Many marriages do struggle, the questions no doubt are why? So often the hearts are wrong from the start, 'I will not say I obey', we have both discussed in detail this is due to lack of understanding the context and duties of the man and the woman, to each other, to God.

But that is where another sticking point comes in, so often on TJ we look at things from scriptural prospectives, from God's will for us, nothing wrong in that as saved souls we naturally look at things in this was, but it is not always that straightforward for the couple. The couple may have no belief in God whatsoever, and the world does what it wants, influenced by the devil and others, (sin, the world and the devil). Or there may be a saved woman with an unsaved man, love is blind and friction soon shows in their relationship. Or it could be a saved man, with an unsaved woman the same applies. We also do not know if there is a spiritual battle going on.

All these aspects and more have to be considered in love, providing one or both are happy to talk.

Bless you my friend
 
Member
If views that certain people don't agree with are going be silenced by removing the threads then that certainly isn't Christian.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
If views that certain people don't agree with are going be silenced by removing the threads then that certainly isn't Christian.

Greetings @sweetcake

The church has rules and disciplines, here are just a few, there are many covering many situations.

When in the church you are to abide by the God given rules and love one another as Christ loves us.

Do you not know that when you come to the forum you are in the midst of saved souls, which are the ekklesia, the Body of Christ, His church? When ever and where ever two spiritual stones comes together, the ekklesia is being built up and Christ is there amongst them. So depending on the incident, the administrators have the right to talk to a person in private or remove posts that are not suitable. We are to respect the decisions of all in authority, whether, here, in a place of worship, in the street, at work, etc. and we are to respect the decision whether we like it or not.

2 Thess 3:24
If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.

Titus 1:13
This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith,

Numbers 15:30
But the person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the Lord; and that person shall be cut off from among his people.

Romans 16:17
Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them.

Romans 13:1-2
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves


Peace be with you
 
Member
Greetings @sweetcake

The church has rules and disciplines, here are just a few, there are many covering many situations.

When in the church you are to abide by the God given rules and love one another as Christ loves us.

Do you not know that when you come to the forum you are in the midst of saved souls, which are the ekklesia, the Body of Christ, His church? When ever and where ever two spiritual stones comes together, the ekklesia is being built up and Christ is there amongst them. So depending on the incident, the administrators have the right to talk to a person in private or remove posts that are not suitable. We are to respect the decisions of all in authority, whether, here, in a place of worship, in the street, at work, etc. and we are to respect the decision whether we like it or not.

2 Thess 3:24
If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.

Titus 1:13
This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith,

Numbers 15:30
But the person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the Lord; and that person shall be cut off from among his people.

Romans 16:17
Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them.

Romans 13:1-2
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves


Peace be with you
The Entire Thread was removed Brother-Paul! Not just a few posts!
 
Member
The Entire Thread was removed Brother-Paul! Not just a few posts!
Yeah... I asked about this long ago and never got a response. It appears they blocked/hid the thread and selectively give access to it. They might grant you access to it now since you are complaining, but the rest of us don't. Just get this error:
Oops! We ran into some problems.
You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.

There were a lot of other things I wanted to share Adam/Christ topology, etc... but when I saw stuff being removed like that I didn't post much after that if you've noticed.
 
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