Intimacy before marriage / sexual immorality?

[hgchrisfor]

What is sexual immorality? What is the proper level of intimacy before marriage and/or what is acceptable to God?

I am not asking this for myself or for selfish reasons. I think all too often people jump into marriage to experience sexual intimacy only to realize they rushed in and were not right for one another. I have only seen this first hand with one couple, but have heard many stories.

I've been saving myself for marriage and plan to hold firm on this, inclusive of oral.

If you are with a girl that you think you want to marry, but don't want disobey God, what can you do to love another and show intimacy, without rushing into anything?

What is sexual immorality in the Bible? Would a full body massage be sexual immorality? Kissing, comforting etc?

I'm not talking about any type of sex, oral or otherwise. I'm talking about touching, stimulating, kissing etc. Are there ways I could show my love to my future wife and be intimate, without sex/oral that is not sexually immoral?

Maybe i'll be specific and just start with something like a massage. A full body massage.

 

[agua]

This is a very tricky subject. If you are unmarried it is best to avoid situations that cause you to "burn" with desire. This means you should not do anything that causes sexual arousal outside marriage.
A kiss and a cuddle may be kept brief and avoid arousal but I personally don't see how you could give a full body massage to a woman you desired without being sexually stimulated.

You should become intimate mentally and spiritually with your future wife and save any sexual stimulation until after marriage.

You are doing a godly thing by staying sexually pure.



Heb 13:4 Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

 

[sojourn4Christ]

"Morality" (or "sexual morality") apart from the Bible is really a misnomer; it's man's "situational ethics." As is seen by studying philosophy, there is no real reason for morality of any sort without there being a God and being accountable to Him. So any attempt at speaking about the morality (or immorality) of sexual activity is vain, apart from the Bible.

The Word of God is clear, and so clearly in direct conflict with the shifting moralities of the world:

"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband." (1 Cor 7:1, 2)

There you have it -- don't even touch each other until you have declared your intention to become one flesh (i.e. holy matrimony) before the Lord.

What follows now is some serious documentation concerning the red herring of "morals" and "morality."

[Note the lack of standard of God's Righteousness and emphasis on man's natural philosophy in the following definitions. The words “morals” and “morality” (such as "moral law") do not exist in the Word of God]. ​

Moralism: Belief in or practice of a system of ethics apart from religion. Webster's New World Dictionary, Third College Edition, 1988, page 882.

Moralism: An egotistic pose of concern for goodness adopted in general by nature's evil at heart. Dictionary of Business and Scientific Terms (1968), page 270.

Moral Actions: Those only in which men have knowledge to guide them, and a will to choose for themselves. Rutherford's Institutes of Natural Law, lib. 1, c, i. Black's Law Dictionary, third edition, 1933, page 1204. Bouvier's Law Dictionary (1914), page 2246.

Moral: 1. Of or pertaining to morals or that with which morals deal, as questions right and wrong; discriminating right and wrong; as, the moral sense;–distinguished from nonmoral or unmoral, and often contrasted with intellectual. 2. Conformed to accepted rules of right, conduct; righteous; virtuous; just;–distinguished from immoral; as a moral life or conduct. 3. Capable of being governed by or of influencing the sense of right. 4. Acting, or suited to act, uipon or through one's moral nature or sense of right; as, moral consideration. 5. Supported by reason or probability; as, moral evidence. 6. Equal in moral effects; virtual; tantamount to; as, a moral victory or defeat. 7. Serving to teach a moral. 8. Moralizing.

“Syn. Moral, ethical. Moral may refer to the science or the practice of right conduct; ethical commonly suggests the science; as, moral (not echical) man. See BODILY.

“Moral certainty, a high degree of probability, although not demonstrable as a certainty; a probability so great that it can be confidently acted upon in the affairs of life. “–n. 1. Moral conduct or teachings;–usually in pl. 2. The inner meaning, or practical lesson, of a fable, an experience, etc.” Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (3d edition, 1927), p. 634.

(Those who say "the moral law of God" may really mean "the fabled law of God." This is why we shoud not use the words of the world to describe the things of God). ​

Morality: 1. Knowledge of moral science. Late M.E. only. 2. pl. Moral qualities or endownments. Late M.E. 3. Moral discourse or [*1281] instruction; a moral exhortation. Now chiefly in disparaging sense, moralizing. Late M.E. b. Moral sense or interpretation (see MORAL a.); also, the moral (of a fable, etc.) -1623. 4. A literary or artistic production inculcating a moral lesson; a moralizing commentary; a moral allegory -1649. b. Hist. Name for the species of drama (popular in the 16th c.) In which some moral or spiritual lesson was inclcated, and in which the chief characters were personifications of abstract qualities 1765. 5. Moral science 1449. b. pl. Points of ethics, moral principles or rules 1605. c. A particular system of morals 1680. d. Ethical aspect (of a question) 1869. 6. The quality or fact of being moral 1592. 7. Moral conduct usu. good moral conduct 1609. b. A mock title or one who assumes airs of virtue 1672.” Oxford's Universal Dictionary (1955), pp. 1280-1281.

Morality: 1. Moral quality ; virtue. 2. That which conveys or instills moral lesons or sentiments; as: a. Moral inference, meanin, or lesson; moralization. b. A kind of allegorical play in which actors personify charity, faith, death, vice, etc. 3. Moral practice or action; rectitude of life. 4. Morals; ethics. 5. The relation of conformity or nonconformity to moral righteousness [*not God's righteousness]; quality of an intention [*whether good or evil], a character [*Christian or anti-Christian], an action, a principle, or a sentiment, when tried by the standard of right.” Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (3d edition, 1927), p. 634.

Moral Turpitude: Considerable difficulty has been experienced in application of the term “moral turpitude” to the facts of each case. One of the reasons for this is that the term does not refer to legal standards, but rather has reference largely to moral character and state of mind; to those changing moral standards of conduct which society has set up for itself through the centuries. Since standards of morals differ from time to time and at different places, and the concept of moral turpitude depends to some extent on the state of public morals, and is to be determined by the state of public morals and the common sense of the community, and since “moral turpitude” is a term which conforms to, and is consonant with, the state of public morals, it never can remain stationary, but it may vary according to the community or the times. It follows therefore that moral turpitude is adaptive, and is a somewhat loose expression, the meaning of which must be left to the judicial inclusion and exclusion as the cases are reached and as the standards of society change. Corpus Juris Secundum, Volume 54, Page 1202 (1948). U.S. – Berlandi v. Reimer, D.C.N.Y., 30 F.Supp. 534, 537. U.S. – Skrmetta v. Coykendall, D.C.G.A. 16 F.2d. 783, 784.

 

[Property Of God]

I wouldn't go beyond a hug, holding hands, or a kiss (not French kissing or making out)

It all depends on your heart. The Bible calls it sexual immorality cause it's not possible to name it ALL immoralities cause someone will come up with something and try to get away with it saying "Oh but the Bible doesn't mention this".

 

[sojourn4Christ]

fornication versus "immorality"

The Bible calls it sexual immorality...

No, it doesn't -- the modern copyrighted per-versions do. When one buys into one lie, the next lie is easier to accept, and then the next...

The words "immorality" and “morals” and “morality” (such as "moral law") do not exist in the authentic Word of God i.e. the AV (Authorized Version).

The mere fact that most bible translations are copyrighted proves the true motives of the Revision Committees of those particular translations (340 and counting); To change God's Word!

"To be copyrightable, a derivative work must be different enough from the original to be regarded as a 'new work' or must contain a substantial amount of new material. Making minor changes or additions of little substance to a pre-existing work will not qualify the work as a new version for copyright purposes." --The Derivative Copyright Law (partial). ​

Did you read that? In order for a bible to be copyrighted, it must be "substantially different" from the original texts! No wonder there are so many different doctrines going around today. No wonder there are so many contradictions in bibles! No wonder copyrighted bibles are so different from one another and say completely different things! They must be substantially different from one another in order to be copyrighted! Dear reader, the copyrighted bible you have in your possession is not the Holy Scripture, it is a translation which is substantially different from the scripture!

Copyright: "The legal protection given to authors and artists to prevent reproduction of their work without their consent. The owner of a copyright has the exclusive right to print, reprint, publish, copy and sell the material covered by the copyright." The New Standard Encyclopedia, volume 3, page 565. ​

First of all, who is the "owner" of God's Word? Well obviously, the one who created it; God. Certainly, not mere man. So how can any man copyright God's Word? The answer is he can't and he doesn't, because man can only copyright "their own words," and not the words of another. Therefore, copyrighted bibles contain the words of man and not the words of God

Secondly, did you know if you quote from, or copy from, or preach from, one of these copyrighted bibles, without the written permission of the "author" of that work, did you know you can be fined, imprisoned, and penalized for doing so? In other words, whoever owns the copyright to a bible is preventing you from repeating what is contained in that bible! Does mere man have the authority to prevent someone from sharing God's Word with others? No, he doesn't. But since copyrighted bibles contain the words of men, only some man's personal interpretation of the words of God, they can prevent others from using "their" bibles.

And think about this, if you have to get the bible "author's" permission, then obviously this work is "created" by some man who believes he himself is the "author" of this bible. He is basically saying, “Before you can preach God's Word, you must go through me and ask my permission!” This is basically what copyrighted bibles demand

Look at any copyrighted bible for proof of this. Here is the copyright notice to the New International Version (the NIV Bible - © Copyright 1973, 1978, 1984):

The NIV text may be quoted in any form (written, visual, electronic or audio), up to and inclusive of five hundred (500) verses without express written permission of the publisher, providing the verses do not amount to a complete book of the Bible nor do the verses quoted account for twenty-five percent (25%) or more of the total text of the work in which they are quoted. ​

In other words, we must ask permission from the NIV bible publishers to use more than 25% of any book of the bible, or more than 500 verses. The NIV bible is preventing you from preaching over 500 verses of their bible, and is also preventing you from repeating an entire book of the bible! For example, if I wanted to read the entire book of Jude (which contains only a total of 25 verses) to a congregation, I am forbidden to do so from the NIV bible!!! I will be persecuted if I do, because I would be quoting a "complete book" from their bible. The most I can quote from the book of Jude would be 25% of this book, which would mean I cannot read, print, or duplicate more than 6 verses from this book! I cannot read more than 25% of any book of their bible!

We must ask ourselves these questions, "Why are the publishers of copyrighted bibles threatening to persecute us if we quote from their bibles? Is this the character of someone who wants God's Word spread abroad to others? Or is this the character of someone who is preventing God's Word from being spread to others?"

Dear reader, how would you feel if some man said you could not preach God's Word unless you asked them for permission? Well, this is exactly what copyrighted bibles demand, on pain of being fined, imprisoned, and penalized for preaching from their bibles. So, why give power to the beast? Why use some man's bible if he is threatening you? Why not go to scripture instead, where you will receive blessings and not cursings. Why not use scripture instead, where you need not worry about being persecuted from some man who thinks he owns the words you are quoting from?

How serious of an offense can copyright infringement be? According to the Copyright Law itself, from Title 17, Chapter 12, of the U.S.Code, Section 1204, the criminal offenses and penalties of someone who violates a copyright shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both, for the first offense; and shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense

You might ask, "Why are bibles copyrighted?" The answer is because merchants want to make money, and the only way for them to make a buck off of God's Word is to substantially change it and pass it off as the real thing, so they can sell their merchandise. In addition, the reason why they demand that you ask them for permission to use their bibles is so they can make even more money off of you, because when you ask permission, you must either pay them money or advertise their book!

Hosea 12:7, "He is a merchant, the balances of deceit are in his hand: he loveth to oppress."

Revelation 18:23, "...the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies...for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived."
​

Now, to clarify, bibles do contain a lot of God's Truth, but they are also mixed with man's opinions and personal interpretations (can you say "immorality"?) It is possible to understand the True meaning of God's Word through some bibles, but it is a lot more difficult to do. For example, one can understand the meaning of certain words by reading verses in its context, and by comparing the use of those same words in other passages. So, even though words and meanings have been changed in bibles, it is possible to understand its true meaning, but it will take a lot more effort on the part of the reader.

I use the King James bible, because it is not copyrighed. And it's New Testament is taken from the Majority Text Manuscripts (i.e. 99.6% of all exisiting manuscripts; all modern per-versions are taken from the remaining 0.4% (corrupted) manuscripts).