In the Name of Tolerance and Love.

[Br. Bear]

I apologize, religious discussion tends to lead to argument and debate, and I've had quite enough of that over the years.

As for your first question, I am doing very well. =) I just aced my Calculus midterm, I'm head-over-heels for my girlfriend (and she is the same for me), and I have many friends that I am proud to say that I would die for.

Second, a quick Google search will reveal that Atheists are the #1 most mistrusted group in America! I've seen videos of such intolerance. (Look up "Angry Catholic Mother" on YouTube). And I've seen it directly in the bible. I'm not claiming that Atheists are the only group that are being oppressed/mistrusted/etc, but they are one of them. And to lessen the suffering of just one more group of people would fill me with a great sense of pride and accomplishment.

What is love?
Baby don't hurt me...don't hurt me...no more...

*ahem* Sorry.

Seriously though, Love is something that would take years, even a lifetime to explain and experience. Love is a very personal experience, and love can come in many forms. Love for a friend, fellow man, brother, deity, parent, or partner are all very different things and constitute very different things.

For me, the most important love in my life now is that of my partner. For me, love is not something that you define, but you describe. I describe it as the emotion that allows me to say with full confidence that I cherish this person more than anything. I would lay down my life for her without a second thought, and I would forgive her regardless of how she may transgress. She is the one person I would spend the rest of my life and eternity with. I wish to experience the world with her, from the most exotic locations, to the most precious moments between us. That is love for me.

To answer your final question, I am still fine. Though I don't require or believe in it, I thank you for the sentiment. I should hope that your prayers, if you should pray for me, are said not in pity, but in respect and admiration as peers.

Bless you.

Love is a wonderful thing isn't it. I used to enjoy it, but then I discovered something even more beautiful. (ask me if you like )
But for you right now... I am very happy... love is beautiful at any level... and the more the merrier I say!

One day I might be able to introduce you to my lover... the One who loves even me... now that is something out of this world... we've been twenty years or so and even today.. I am lovestruck! Seriously. (and I have witnesses! totally love struck, bordering on lovesick.... mmmmmmm!)

No, I won't pray in pity... I am not into that. Are you?

Anyway, getting back to love, surely you can do a bit better than that? Saying it would take a lifetime... anyone can say that, but you said to ask... so I did, and now you don't answer...
what does an Atheist say about love?


please refresh my memory?

(I used to be one)

You said you have had enough over the years of argument and debate... must have been some years...
funny thing is, they never go away.. everywhere, there is bickering and pride .... get used to it, is my advice and become like a duck... water off a ducks back! Honestly.

No 1 group.... ooooo... in America.... my, my... big population and all!
*ahem* Sorry.
Do unto others and all that.. ahem. For those that don't know such language, ahem, I think that is like cough, cough... clearing the throat.... as in dum-de-dum-de-dum... or, sorry- Basil Fawlty style (Fawlty Towers) did I say that? where were we?

Speaking of debate.... all scientists debate stuff, quite heartily... or else how else would they ever agree on new and preposterous ideas... that is how they see them at first. Again, get used to it, unless you want to ride on other's backs who have done it all for you.

PLEASE SEE THAT I AM NOT HAVING A GO AT YOU..... JUST A LITTLE BROTHERLY LOVE... OR FATHERLY LOVE, TYPE CHAT/ADVICE.

You see, it is a merry-go-round ... look at the world.... what do you see? step back a bit..... ah! It's going around and around. Now look at your thoughts.... what did you say about love?


I am glad you are well. Bless you.

DO you remember back in the sixties? All that gut wrenching questioning about life..... it came out in culture.... and headed where.... with all the same questions you might even ask.

I did.

Hope you are not as hard of hearing as I was!

Bless you ....><>

Br. Bear


ps... looking forward to your reply..... in love.

 

[jari]

What has your pastor, priest, or other spiritual leader told you about Atheists? If you haven't asked, this Sunday is a good time to. I'd love to know what you think. =)

Only that he was an atheist...
but i dont know how he came to christ, sorry
for me it was just prayer and reading the bible when i begun to think about things and im glad i did

 

[Property Of God]

I want to comment on a few things actually,
You said you aced your calculas midterm? good, so what? I'm not sure what does it have to do with anything!?

And so what if you are head-over-heals in love with your GF(and so she is!) What difference does it make here?
That's too much irrelevent information, Thanks!

Chad and members were very kind to provide you with links, though they actually didn't have to, we aren't here to talk about Atheists or meditate on them, We are here to love God, because He loved us first.

The fact that you're so in love to find out what us Christians, think of you, really shows alot.

I come in peace to BTW, not to debate
God bless!

P.S: I'll tell you the difference between you and Christians, if we were single or even loveless, failed every class, we'd still be very happy really, nothing matters, because you know what? He LOVES us!

I couldn't care less if the whole world hated me for that, I guess they'll have to live with it.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Love and peace to you Skandranon

I am pleased that you are here at Talk Jesus.

Notwithstanding the fact that you seem to think that you believe there is no God....I would just like to ask you a couple of questions.

You say that you have read the scriptures so.....

....From a personal point of view.....from your scriptural knowledge..from your historical knowledge....What do you think about the Lord Jesus Christ....what do you think/feel/understand about the records of His virgin birth, His miracles, His death on the cross, His ressurection, the second coming?

I was just thinking that for you to be here on a Christian Forum.....seeking questions and answers.....there must be some inner spiritual turmoil going on....I hope so anyway....(so that it leads you to seek more about the Lord).

I am praying for you...... and yes of course my prayer is that you will be converted to the Lord Jesus who is real and who has changed the lives of all the Christians who meet on this forum.

Blessings to you

Julia

 

[Br. Bear]

I want to comment on a few things actually,
You said you aced your calculas midterm? good, so what? I'm not sure what does it have to do with anything!?

And so what if you are head-over-heals in love with your GF(and so she is!) What difference does it make here?
That's too much irrelevent information, Thanks!

Chad and members were very kind to provide you with links, though they actually didn't have to, we aren't here to talk about Atheists or meditate on them, We are here to love God, because He loved us first.

The fact that you're so in love to find out what us Christians, think of you, really shows alot.

I come in peace to BTW, not to debate
God bless!

P.S: I'll tell you the difference between you and Christians, if we were single or even loveless, failed every class, we'd still be very happy really, nothing matters, because you know what? He LOVES us!

I couldn't care less if the whole world hated me for that, I guess they'll have to live with it.

Actually, I think it is absoluetly wonderful that you share how much you are in love.... I know we are not here to act as a love forum as such, but who can deny the wonderful power of love.... not me!

And , a little defence for our new friend, I think it's great that you passed your studies .... even aced them... well done!

I think what is being said, is that in the scheme of things, as time passes... even eternity... will those things still be all that important?

I certainly would be delighted if you and your girlfriend grew in love to the heights of delight that it offers those willing to travel the road... because it can be bumpy, my friend.... so try to remember that love gets tempered as you go... but that doesn't mean a bad thing.... all the best to you both.

And about the passing of time, on a purely intellectual level.... if possible.... will your love for each other make any lasting change for the world... a noticable and real change.... I ask, not to question you, but so you might see a bit better a little of the magnitude of the fact that He loved us first, as Nermeen pointed out.

1John 4:19 We love Him, because He first loved us.



Bless you, both Nermeen and Skandranon, in Jesus name ....><>



Br. Bear


and... please don't forget my quick question about successful civilizations <><

 

[Br. Bear]

Love and peace to you Skandranon

I am pleased that you are here at Talk Jesus.

Notwithstanding the fact that you seem to think that you believe there is no God....I would just like to ask you a couple of questions.


I am praying for you...... and yes of course my prayer is that you will be converted to the Lord Jesus who is real and who has changed the lives of all the Christians who meet on this forum.

Blessings to you

Julia

Actually, Skandranon, believe it or not, Atheists DO believe in God.

Think about it for a moment, to say you believe there is no God, means you must believe that He doesn't exist. And you can't really do that without believing that He exists in order to deny Him.

You have to have a concept of what you are thinking and talking about, in order to deny it's existence.

Perhaps having never met Him, you are as I was... and that is perfectly understandable, if so.

Everyone who claims to be a believer seems pretty sure about the Lord, but if you have never had the blessing of meeting Him, how on earth can you know Him?

But don't deceive yourself... if you are half the thinker you might think you are, and I reckon you are a deep thinker, Skandranon, then stop and realise that you can not deny something (or in this case, Someone) without having some notion of what you are talking about.


Bless you ....><>


Br. Bear

 

[Chad]

Heh, though it may be in the bible, it's a much older concept than that. In fact, I'd have to say it's one of the most basic unwritten moral laws that is common to almost every successful civilization.

Is it? I'd like proof of this. But what is the ROOT of this concept? Can you prove the root of this concept? The beginning?

By the way, my tone you claimed to be aggressive - that doesn't mean much. You swayed away from my questions and the links I gave you, trying to help you. That speaks much more. It says you have no defense of the proof and truth provided to you. I tried to help anyway.

 

[jiggyfly]

Well, it all really began with the way I was brought up. Both my parents are "casual Catholics" to coin a phrase, and they are both very intelligent people (my dad can make a computer do backflips for him, and my mom is one of the higher-ups in a real-estate company). When I was growing up, at about the age of 7, my parents began talking to me about Christianity, religion, and life. I went to Sunday school, and I was given a bible in public school (looking back, I'm somewhat upset about this), which I read for a little while.

The thing is, they didn't just teach me about Christianity, I was taught that there were people that didn't believe in anything at all, and that there were people that believed in other gods like in the Hercules movie.

It wasn't until I was about 13 or 14 years old that I began seriously thinking about faith and religion. For me, science offered a much more rich and satisfying universe to explore than faith, as science was so open-ended and always asked "why". I was never happy with having an answer and having someone simply tell me that was correct.

In short, I put almost all of my energy into the pursuit of knowledge, and that road led me to Atheism.

I think you may have religious faith confused with faith in Christ. I see that you have been exposed to religion and I can definitely understand why you turned from Catholicism. There's nothing wrong with seeking knowledge, especially if it's knowledge of the truth. Knowing the difference between fantasy and reality is very key in the quest for Truth.

Something to keep in mind, lacking an experience with Christ is not grounds for denying His existence. I have never seen a baby pigeon, have you? Please do not make the mistake of limiting the evidence for God's existence to religious theory, paradigm and or experience.

Is it also possible that disappointment with Catholicism has influenced your path towards atheism? Again please don't rob yourself of an experience with Christ because of misrepresentation by a religious system.

 

[Property Of God]

You really wanna discuss science? Great.
Read "Mere Christianity" by C.S Lewis, I'm sure you've heard of him, he used to be an atheist himself, It's all talking about science and logic really, he wasn't defending Christians, he was rather proving Christianity, using logic.

He also comes in peace, not to debate, not to convince you either.

If truly the universe had no creator, we would have never discovered that it has no creator, that's science BTW.

We aren't even trying to convince you and get extra blessings as you accused earlier, No one of us even has the ability to do that, only God can change peoples' hearts and minds, and I assure you, we all agree on that.

God Bless.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Actually, Skandranon, believe it or not, Atheists DO believe in God.

Think about it for a moment, to say you believe there is no God, means you must believe that He doesn't exist. And you can't really do that without believing that He exists in order to deny Him.

You have to have a concept of what you are thinking and talking about, in order to deny it's existence.

Perhaps having never met Him, you are as I was... and that is perfectly understandable, if so.

Dear Skandranon

Reading Br. Bears post has led me to think of another question for you.

My thoughts were taken to Richard Wurmbrand. I'm sure you know of him but just in case you don't..a Jewish atheist who turned to Christ and worked for the underground church in Rumania.

And one day being a very convinced atheist, I prayed to God. My prayer was something like this; 'God I know surely that You do not exist. But if perchance You exist; it is your duty to reveal yourself to me' I was an atheist, but atheism did not give peace to my heart.

Sometime after praying this prayer Wurmbrand was drawn to a village in the Rumanian mountains...where he found an unknown carpenter had been praying to lead a Jew to the Lord....and shortly afterwards Wurmbrand turned to the Lord and gave his whole life in service to the underground church (Much summarised)

God moves in miraculous ways to lead people to Himself.

Could you consider the possibility Skandranon....that the God you deny has led you here ?......that we will be praying for you...and that ultimately it could lead to your conversion?

Whoops...... I know you say you don't want people to talk about conversion....but you've come to a Christian site...where we all care and pray for lost souls....and where we all have personal experience of the saving power of the Lord Jesus Christ...which I can't help but share with you.

Love and blessings

Julia


Look unto me and be ye saved Isaiah 45:22

 

[Skandranon]

You really wanna discuss science? Great.
Read "Mere Christianity" by C.S Lewis, I'm sure you've heard of him, he used to be an atheist himself, It's all talking about science and logic really, he wasn't defending Christians, he was rather proving Christianity, using logic.

He also comes in peace, not to debate, not to convince you either.

If truly the universe had no creator, we would have never discovered that it has no creator, that's science BTW.

We aren't even trying to convince you and get extra blessings as you accused earlier, No one of us even has the ability to do that, only God can change peoples' hearts and minds, and I assure you, we all agree on that.

God Bless.

C.S. Lewis, fantastic author. (Go Narnia!)

I'll definitely check that book out if I can get my hands on a copy. =)

 

[jiggyfly]

Oh no, I haven't been turned from religion because of a bad religious experience. I ultimately solidified by position when I realized that science has so much more to offer me than religion does. I find the world of science so much more enriching and fascinating than religion.

To me, most religions give you an answer, then justify that answer by saying "That's the way it is."

Science, however, encourages everyone to question everything. Even down to our most basic assumptions. By questioning, investigating, and sharing, everyone gains knowledge on a level that they could never do on their own without skeptical inquiry.

With my lack of religious experience, we are brought back to "Absence of evidence is evidence of absence."

I see that you are confusing a religious experience with an experience with Christ. I agree with you about religion, it is more like a virtual experience rather than the real spiritual experience with Christ. Again don't let religion rob you of coming to the Truth. I am quite sure that Darwinism has been misrepresented by many people who are pro and con, but Darwin has not misrepresented Darwinism. In this same way Christianity has been misrepresented by religion but Christ has not misrepresented Christianity.

 

[Property Of God]

Evolution is mere a theory, it was never proved/confirmed, just a theory by scientists who debate together about it, these same intelligent scientists also thought that the earth was circular many years ago.

I've a few questions for you:
Do you think you are happy? Please think about it a little then reply, and state the reasons why you're happy/unhappy.

Another question, do you celebrate Christmas?

Do you believe in aliens?

Are you 100% sure that there is no God whatsoever? There isn't even 1% of chance that you could simply be wrong?

Man, I wish I was like that.

 

[Skandranon]

Evolution is mere a theory, it was never proved/confirmed, just a theory by scientists who debate together about it, these same intelligent scientists also thought that the earth was circular many years ago.

I've a few questions for you:
Do you think you are happy? Please think about it a little then reply, and state the reasons why you're happy/unhappy.

Another question, do you celebrate Christmas?

Do you believe in aliens?

Are you 100% sure that there is no God whatsoever? There isn't even 1% of chance that you could simply be wrong?

Man, I wish I was like that.

Evolution is a theory. Just like the theory of relativity, and the theory of gravity. See, people call evolution a "theory", not because it is an unjustified hypothesis. A theory in technical use is a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts. Next time you hear the word "theory" in science, know that it is something that is so well established and integrated into our system of knowledge, that it would be foolhardy to cast even a shadow of doubt on it without a mountain of evidence to back your claim.

By the way, it was the religious people who continued to believe that the Earth was flat, while scientists are the ones that determined that it was spherical. Even the ancient Greeks knew it was spherical, and were able to calculate the approximate circumference of the Earth to an astonishing degree of accuracy.

I do believe I am happy, mostly because there are much more things that are going right in my life, things that bring me pleasure, than things that are going wrong, which would be things that bring me displeasure. That's the most basic answer I can give you.

I celebrate Christmas, but not in the sense that you probably do. I celebrate the North American tradition of Santa Clause, and I partake in the general happiness that tend to be involved with Christmas.

I partially believe in aliens. So far, there is no empirical evidence of aliens, but there is a large amount of logical evidence that would point to the existence of some sort of life that did not originate on earth. This is the fact that Earth is only one planet out of a few thousand that we know about that can support life. We also know about a few that MAY support life as we know it. The number of stars and planets out there is staggering, and to suggest that there is only one possible way of life existing and that there is only one planet capable of this is preposterous.

For an idea of how many stars there are in the universe, google "Hubble looks at blank spot in sky"

For your last question, it would be logically flawed for me to say that it is impossible for a God or Gods to exist. Instead, a better word would be improbable. I believe, based on most of the evidence that I have seen, that it is extremely improbable that a God or Gods exist.

 

[Chad]

Evolution is a theory. Just like the theory of relativity, and the theory of gravity. See, people call evolution a "theory", not because it is an unjustified hypothesis. A theory in technical use is a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts. Next time you hear the word "theory" in science, know that it is something that is so well established and integrated into our system of knowledge, that it would be foolhardy to cast even a shadow of doubt on it without a mountain of evidence to back your claim.

By the way, it was the religious people who continued to believe that the Earth was flat, while scientists are the ones that determined that it was spherical. Even the ancient Greeks knew it was spherical, and were able to calculate the approximate circumference of the Earth to an astonishing degree of accuracy.

I do believe I am happy, mostly because there are much more things that are going right in my life, things that bring me pleasure, than things that are going wrong, which would be things that bring me displeasure. That's the most basic answer I can give you.

I celebrate Christmas, but not in the sense that you probably do. I celebrate the North American tradition of Santa Clause, and I partake in the general happiness that tend to be involved with Christmas.

I partially believe in aliens. So far, there is no empirical evidence of aliens, but there is a large amount of logical evidence that would point to the existence of some sort of life that did not originate on earth. This is the fact that Earth is only one planet out of a few thousand that we know about that can support life. We also know about a few that MAY support life as we know it. The number of stars and planets out there is staggering, and to suggest that there is only one possible way of life existing and that there is only one planet capable of this is preposterous.

For an idea of how many stars there are in the universe, google "Hubble looks at blank spot in sky"

For your last question, it would be logically flawed for me to say that it is impossible for a God or Gods to exist. Instead, a better word would be improbable. I believe, based on most of the evidence that I have seen, that it is extremely improbable that a God or Gods exist.

You have many opinions and "cold hard facts" as you claim in the pm you sent me regarding the wikipedia article. But I ask you publicly, and to quote you:

Wikipedia is extremely accurate for several reasons:
1. Anyone can edit it, yes, but for every person out there who wants to vandalize pages, there are a dozen more who will correct and expel those who do.
2. Almost all facts are backed up by a reference to a primary source. These are all clickable, and therefore verifiable.

And now I ask you once again:

What about the cold hard facts in those clickable links I gave you too? They were backed up by facts.

You seem to decide to believe only what you desire to believe. That's dishonest when it comes to intellectual "knowledge" and search for truth.

So you now we discover you believe in aliens. Yet, you don't believe in GOD. This is getting baffling to be honest with you.

So, you believe what you're told about evolution and aliens. You believe in the great wikipedia and its "clickable links", yet you don't believe in the Holy Bible, the thousands of proven facts about it including artifacts, Christian scientists (many ex-atheists too) and you don't care to "click" the links I shared with you a couple pages back, with ample resources.

Why?

 

[Chad]

More articles to read:

How do we know that the Bible is the Word of God, and not the Apocrypha, the Qur’an, the Book of Mormon, etc.?

http://www.talkjesus.com/scriptural-bible-answers/7943-creation-vs-evolution.html

http://www.talkjesus.com/evidence-bible-prophecy/23215-tiny-bacterias-big-challenge-darwin.html

http://www.talkjesus.com/get-saved-now/13601-questions-objections.html

A site with tremendous amount of articles is this apologetic site called CARM Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

Update: more links

http://www.talkjesus.com/streaming-multimedia/15853-former-atheist-evolutionist.html

http://www.talkjesus.com/streaming-multimedia/18461-evolution-earth.html

http://www.talkjesus.com/evidence-bible-prophecy/22662-atheist-test.html

http://www.talkjesus.com/daily-devotionals/8228-science-creation-message.html

I pray these links will bless you with the truth found in Jesus Christ.

GOD loves you. I hope you will see this.

Let's try this one more time.

 

[Property Of God]

I agree with Chad 110%, he has references to back up what he says, unlike you.

I did study Evolution in College BTW, again, it was NOT proved whatsoever, you believe in facts about evolution, and not facts that proves the existense of a God? again, you are only picking what you want to believe in.

I tell you that from my heart, no irony at all believe me, you are missing out on alot, you don't know this because you can't miss what you never had, just the fact that you are able to think and argue at all proves that there is an intelligent design behind that, and I don't even believe that it existed just like that, out of nowhere.

I'm actually done debating, this isn't what I'm supposed to be doing, and not everyone is chosen to be a Christian, God has mercy on who He wants to have mercy on.

Christinaity is really like having a friend in a very high place, I just whisper a prayer and it's always answered, it's like having a magical power, I admit I'm a complete loser, I'd be nothing if it wasn't for God really, just a loser.

However, I believe you are here for a reason, I wish you try to pray, and ask God to reveal Himself to you, maybe He will answer, just keep praying, you have nothing to lose anyway.

I wish you all the best.
God bless.

"I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God." Jeremiah 31:18 KJV

 

[Chad]

Thread closed. Atheist has been proven defenseless and ignorant of the truth.