Immigration. There is no such thing as illegal immigrants.

[Christ Child]

I am not to sure on ancient politics, but I guess that the nations in Biblical times did not have border controls in the same way that we do today - people were free to move from one territory to another. If anybody has insight to this, I'd be interested.

The Bible is completely consistent in its instruction on how the people of God were to treat strangers/sojourners/aliens. The verse from Leviticus in the opening post is one of the clearest and most direct.

Over a third of the people in the city which I live were born outside this country. Some are refugees, many are not. The vast, vast majority have come seeking a safe and stable place to live, work and raise families. Still, many are made to feel unwanted and unwelcome.

Our churches have often not been good at offering the hospitality that we are commanded to. Sometimes this is just that we are slow to react. There has been a large movement of people from Eastern Europe for the past 20 years, and - with the exception of the Roman Catholic Church - we have not found ways to make Poles, Bulgarians, Hungarians and others feel welcome. I think that we are often blinkered or unwilling to be imaginative.

Jesus' words, "I was a stranger, and you didn't invite me into your home" ought to trouble all of us.

How many strangers have you invited to live with you into your home... just want to be sure you live according to what you are preaching, before I would consider responding.

Hekuran thanks finally someone who sees clearly and speak the truth like me. It's very refreshing. Thanks my brother. God bless you for your understanding and humility.

 

[Christ Child]

Hekuran thanks finally someone who sees clearly and speak the truth like me. It's very refreshing. Thanks my brother. God bless you for your understanding and humility.

Brad Huber your response was rude what about you how many immigrants you invited into your home?

 

[Hekuran]

It would be better to engage with each other without personal insults and accusation. Every group of people has committed violence and oppressed others at one time or another.

Jesus calls us to love, to truth, to peace, to justice, and to walk in the ways of God the Father.

If we can't manage to be civil on an Internet forum, what hope do we have to witness to God's goodness in the world?

 

[B-A-C]

Jesus' words, "I was a stranger, and you didn't invite me into your home" ought to trouble all of us.

Inviting one isn't a problem. Two maybe three... I'm not sure where I would draw the line.
Inviting a couple dozen strangers into my house, all at once .... probably not so much.

1 Cor 15:33; Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."

Sure Jesus hung around with tax collectors, prostitutes and even "uggghhh" Samaritans!! (How could He??)
But I notice one thing about these people.. they were looking for God, looking for help, looking for answers.
They either chose to follow Him, or He moved on to the next crowd. He didn't put up with people who wanted
to subvert His message (the Pharisees and scribes for example) .

I suspect Jesus hung around those trying to learn the truth a lot more than He hung around those trying to change it.
Jesus Himself called Gentiles "dogs". ( Matt 15:26; Mark 7:27; )
He said this to a non-Jewish woman.
Mark 7:26; Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter.

In the case of the Samaritan woman at the well....

John 4:7; There *came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus *said to her, "Give Me a drink."
John 4:8; For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food.
John 4:9; Therefore the Samaritan woman *said to Him, "How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?" (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.)

but even this woman had an inkling....
John 4:25; The woman *said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us."

I wonder how many immigrants would declare this to you? Especially those from Muslim nations.

John 4:39; From that city many of the Samaritans believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, "He told me all the things that I have done."
John 4:40; So when the Samaritans came to Jesus, they were asking Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days.
John 4:41; Many more believed because of His word;
John 4:42; and they were saying to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world."

This Samaritan woman testified about Jesus, and many of them "believed in Him".
The flip side would be.... someone testified against Jesus, and many "did not believe in Him".

If we get to opening title of this thread... "No such thing as an illegal immigrant". How far do you want to take this?
I likely wouldn't invite a known rapist, murderer, or thief into my house (unless I felt directed by God) whether they were a immigrant or not.
Just because you are an immigrant doesn't make you evil.... but the fact is... some are. There are some coming to America to escape incarceration.
Yes, we already have naturalized people doing the same thing... but they are already here.
I doubt this is a high percentage of them.... but even if it's only say... 1or 2%. There is a such thing as an illegal immigrant.

The final thought here is... the native Americans didn't have the means to stop "immigration flooding". It didn't go well for them. The America they knew is gone.
We do have the means to do something about it. If we don't, the America we know will also be gone.

 

[B-A-C]

The Bible is completely consistent in its instruction on how the people of God were to treat strangers/sojourners/aliens. The verse from Leviticus in the opening post is one of the clearest and most direct.

Neh 13:1; On that day they read aloud from the book of Moses in the hearing of the people; and there was found written in it that no Ammonite or Moabite should ever enter the assembly of God,
Neh 13:2; because they did not meet the sons of Israel with bread and water, but hired Balaam against them to curse them. However, our God turned the curse into a blessing.
Neh 13:3; So when they heard the law, they excluded all foreigners from Israel.

Neh 9:2; The descendants of Israel separated themselves from all foreigners, and stood and confessed their sins and the iniquities of their fathers.

Neh 6:15; So the wall was completed on the twenty-fifth of the month Elul, in fifty-two days.
Neh 6:16; When all our enemies heard of it, and all the nations surrounding us saw it, they lost their confidence; for they recognized that this work had been accomplished with the help of our God.

Lam 1:1; How lonely sits the city That was full of people! She has become like a widow Who was once great among the nations! She who was a princess among the provinces Has become a forced laborer!
Lam 1:2; She weeps bitterly in the night And her tears are on her cheeks; She has none to comfort her Among all her lovers. All her friends have dealt treacherously with her; They have become her enemies.
Lam 1:3; Judah has gone into exile under affliction And under harsh servitude; She dwells among the nations, But she has found no rest; All her pursuers have overtaken her In the midst of distress.
Lam 1:4; The roads of Zion are in mourning Because no one comes to the appointed feasts. All her gates are desolate; Her priests are groaning, Her virgins are afflicted, And she herself is bitter.
Lam 1:5; Her adversaries have become her masters, Her enemies prosper; For the LORD has caused her grief Because of the multitude of her transgressions; Her little ones have gone away As captives before the adversary.

 

[Brad Huber]

Brad Huber your response was rude what about you how many immigrants you invited into your home?

You answer the question first and then I will respond.

 

[Brad Huber]

It would be better to engage with each other without personal insults and accusation. Every group of people has committed violence and oppressed others at one time or another.

Jesus calls us to love, to truth, to peace, to justice, and to walk in the ways of God the Father.

If we can't manage to be civil on an Internet forum, what hope do we have to witness to God's goodness in the world?

You remember the pharisees that Jesus interacted with in the new testament, of the Jesus you are preaching? He didnt like most of them, because they were religious spokesmen who would tell others what they should do and not do it themselves, so again I ask you, do you walk the walk of what you preach or are you just like them? Its a straightforward question. I didnt flat out tell you that you were, I was leaving up to your own honesty. So per your own integrity.... answer... do you walk the walk or just talk the talk?

 

[Hekuran]

You remember the pharisees that Jesus interacted with in the new testament, of the Jesus you are preaching? He didnt like most of them, because they were religious spokesmen who would tell others what they should do and not do it themselves, so again I ask you, do you walk the walk of what you preach or are you just like them? Its a straightforward question. I didnt flat out tell you that you were, I was leaving up to your own honesty. So per your own integrity.... answer... do you walk the walk or just talk the talk?

You can judge my words. God will judge my actions.

 

[Brad Huber]

You can judge my words. God will judge my actions.

But you are judging the actions of many, including many here. But you are unwilling to respond to your own question that you ask of others. You judge yourself on this. And yes, God does judge us all, may He have mercy on you.

 

[Hekuran]

I am not talking about how many strangers I have invited into my home because the numbers are not relevant.

These are Jesus' words, and their truth and importance are not dependent on how closely one smallish middle-aged guy in London follows them.

 

[amadeus2]

...thought here is... the native Americans didn't have the means to stop "immigration flooding". It didn't go well for them. The America they knew is gone.
We do have the means to do something about it. If we don't, the America we know will also be gone.

The America I knew as a child, was far from the best of nations, but for me at the time it was better than we have. I am not certain that this same thing would hold true for everyone else on this forum. How selfish are we? All of us were born selfish. When we became followers of Christ was not a primary change for us to be moving from selfishness to selflessness?

The America I knew as a child is gone as the America the Indians knew is gone and so forth... No one could bring any of them back even if someone really wanted to...

My point has been on this thread [but not always in my lifetime] for each of us to take people on one at the time as we come to them or as they come to us. When and if each of us take each new person should we not take them as Jesus would have taken them... as He did? Jesus did not throw out the tax collectors or the Samaritans or even the Romans as a group. From each of them we see where He dealt with them with the Love of God. There were reasons to hate those who participated in the worst of the actions of those apparent 'bad guy' groups, but Jesus loved them all when he encountered each one of them. He was always looking at their hearts. What are we looking at...?

Are we looking at our own established comfort zones for own flesh and those we already hold close more than others who may be hungry and thirsty for the righteousness of God? What have seen of their hearts?

As for even those who are our enemies according to the flesh or even according to the Spirit, consider how Jesus treated Judas even when He definitely knew what Judas was doing. Did he ever rebuke the man or accuse him openly of error?

Should we hate all Muslims because they hold what we see as erroneous doctrines?

Hmmm? Even they are our enemies should we take our vengeance on them? Are we angels of God sent to kill them physically or spiritually?

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Rom 12:19

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" Matt 5:43-44

 

[Bendito]

It would be better to engage with each other without personal insults and accusation. Every group of people has committed violence and oppressed others at one time or another.

Jesus calls us to love, to truth, to peace, to justice, and to walk in the ways of God the Father.

If we can't manage to be civil on an Internet forum, what hope do we have to witness to God's goodness in the world?

You call that personal insults...Most of what I said was addressed to Racism, bad behavior, and hypocracy not the girl.

 

[B-A-C]

Should we hate all Muslims because they hold what we see as erroneous doctrines?

We shouldn't hate them for any reason. But there is a big difference between hating them and inviting them over for dinner. I didn't say we should
hate them. Also, I wouldn't call the Muslim doctrine "erroneous". OSAS is erroneous. Islam is a doctrine of demons. You can still get to heaven if
you're a little off on some of your doctrine. You don't get to heaven if you're worshiping the wrong god.

 

[Hekuran]

You call that personal insults...Most of what I said was addressed to Racism, bad behavior, and hypocracy not the girl.

My comment was not directed only at your post

 

[Bendito]

My comment was not directed only at your post

Good to know.

 

[amadeus2]

Some years ago, m

We shouldn't hate them for any reason. But there is a big difference between hating them and inviting them over for dinner. I didn't say we should
hate them. Also, I wouldn't call the Muslim doctrine "erroneous". OSAS is erroneous. Islam is a doctrine of demons. You can still get to heaven if
you're a little off on some of your doctrine. You don't get to heaven if you're worshiping the wrong god.

I am not arguing this point. Each us must follow what we believe the Lord has given us. I was only hoping to help people search their own hearts and go on from there.

 

[Christ Child]

Neh 13:1; On that day they read aloud from the book of Moses in the hearing of the people; and there was found written in it that no Ammonite or Moabite should ever enter the assembly of God,
Neh 13:2; because they did not meet the sons of Israel with bread and water, but hired Balaam against them to curse them. However, our God turned the curse into a blessing.
Neh 13:3; So when they heard the law, they excluded all foreigners from Israel.

Neh 9:2; The descendants of Israel separated themselves from all foreigners, and stood and confessed their sins and the iniquities of their fathers.

Neh 6:15; So the wall was completed on the twenty-fifth of the month Elul, in fifty-two days.
Neh 6:16; When all our enemies heard of it, and all the nations surrounding us saw it, they lost their confidence; for they recognized that this work had been accomplished with the help of our God.

Lam 1:1; How lonely sits the city That was full of people! She has become like a widow Who was once great among the nations! She who was a princess among the provinces Has become a forced laborer!
Lam 1:2; She weeps bitterly in the night And her tears are on her cheeks; She has none to comfort her Among all her lovers. All her friends have dealt treacherously with her; They have become her enemies.
Lam 1:3; Judah has gone into exile under affliction And under harsh servitude; She dwells among the nations, But she has found no rest; All her pursuers have overtaken her In the midst of distress.
Lam 1:4; The roads of Zion are in mourning Because no one comes to the appointed feasts. All her gates are desolate; Her priests are groaning, Her virgins are afflicted, And she herself is bitter.
Lam 1:5; Her adversaries have become her masters, Her enemies prosper; For the LORD has caused her grief Because of the multitude of her transgressions; Her little ones have gone away As captives before the adversary.

Herkuran they do not agree with you and me don't even waste your time with the bible verses. White Americans think they own this land. God will take care of racist people very soon.

 

[KingJ]

Herkuran they do not agree with you and me don't even waste your time with the bible verses. White Americans think they own this land. God will take care of racist people very soon.

There is no racism at large. They just had a black president :wink:.

You quote from the OT but I believe you are cherry picking scriptures. Jews would love some visitors as themselves. Those that came in peace as tourists or those wanting slavery (well treated employees). That particular visitor however would not just be grafted into their society. Never allowed to have much authority or influence. Some visitors, however would be banned and the Jews would declare war on them, completely annihilating their entire faction. Including their children, elderly and woman.

The lesson we learn is that in a God fearing society, good leadership is a balance between love, caution and common sense. It is on par with your own household. Would you just allow anyone into it? Not allowing everyone in, equates to you being racist?

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Greetings brothers and sisters

I have closed this thread whilst it is undergoing some moderation

The following childrens chorus comes to mind.....

Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Red and yellow, black and white
They are precious in His sight
Jesus loves the little children of the world

Border and immigration laws exist to protect and control the land.

These laws do not mean those upholding them are racist or un-Christian

May grace and peace abound to all