If you bruise the Branch

[Boanerges]

I felt led to share this, I hope it speaks to someone's heart.



177 If you bruise the Branch

Prologue:
This is not about condemning any, or justifying anyone's weakness, but about keeping both the offenders and offendees from damage. Condemnation is not found in Christ (although conviction is), the mature have already forgiven insult and/or slight, but may retain those wounds- this is not written to them unless they respond in kind (or the same spirit). This is written to those who without thought stepped on bleeding wounds of others as they carelessly fling words they may not even mean.
Are we responsible for what comes out of our mouths? Yes.
Are we accountable when we harm His children? Yes.
Thank God for the blood of Christ.

This is something I may have shared on in the past, but it is on my heart so here it is:
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


If you bruise the Branch (or If I Had a Nickel continued):

He is the Vine of heaven through which the very Life (the Holy Spirit) of heaven flows. We are His body, extensions of the Vine grown with the express purpose of producing godly fruit and glorifying His holy Name.
If we callously or otherwise take it upon ourselves to put down, degrade, pour salt on open wounds and etc., on any part of the body then we are in effect doing it to Him, the Vine.

Jas 3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

Can one damage the very Vine he himself is part of and still consider himself as abiding in that Vine? Though he himself may well be a part of that Vine at that moment he is not plugging into the heart of heaven, nor is glorifying his Father (thus he is not abiding in the flow of the Holy Spirit).
Jesus did not teach us to be judges, He did indeed call us to be fruit inspectors. Is that fruit of our lips reflecting His heart, or is it the stench of religious flesh?

Mat 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

This is indeed the heart of God expressed; ever so strong but incredibly gentle, most holy yet most merciful. One simply needs ask themselves this: Do the intentions of my heart reflected in the words of my mouth show this nature? If not then simple repentance, and plugging back into the Vine are all that is needed.

Again, this is not about condemnation. It is a call for each and every one of us to be careful of how we treat what God values most highly; He did after all pay the highest price for the lowest of us all.

Many blessings in His Name,
your bother Larry.

Psa 62:5 My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.
Psa 62:6 He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved.

 

[Eddy Fire]

thanks Larry

I always need reminding of this

can I add that something important that gets left out, too
we like to think ourselves fruit inspectors but I think we need to be careful in that too
not sure if the Scriptures spell it out or not but the seed is something we don't know about until it itself bears fruit - or not

much wisdom, available freely and liberally from God see James 1:5 is needed

thanks again

 

[Boanerges]

My pleasure brother. Let us only think ourselves fruit inspectors as we are led of the Spirit. He gives discernment. The flesh produces no good thing- not even our opinion aside from Him is anything but a rotted stench.

 

[Boanerges]

Re: Thought for Today

by Boanerges » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:34 pm
184 The Body Bleeds

Preface: This is not about my feelings, your feelings, or any one in general. Since this seems to have turned into a theme lately I thought it a good idea to explain the purpose;
How is what we are doing effecting the One who loves us?
Are we wounding His tender heart while sewing division, discord, and pain in the body? Are we resisting God in the name of religious malice and prejudice?
Or, are we the ones who build and repair the breeches?

The Body Bleeds (If I had a nickel continued)

Those who meet at home condemn those who meet in buildings.
Those who meet in one building condemn those who meet in a bigger building.
Those who sing hymns degrade those who worship in a more contemporary fashion.
Those who speak in tongues disdain those who do not.
Those who do not speak in tongues fear and loathe those who do.
THose who wear hats scoff at an uncovered hear, and vice-verse.
Those who move in the gifts see others as immature, and useless.
Those who do not move in the gifts see others as heretics.
Those who dress different, those who pray different, those who meet differently, those who talk differently, those who serve differently, and those who worship differently; all these fall on one another with sharp words and hateful, religious attitudes.

That is not the will of God, nor does it express at any time or any way His heart.
If Jesus demonstrated anything in His earth walk it was this- God is not nearly as petty as the religious zealots who spend their lives straining at gnats.
We can plainly see that this disease of rotting, separatist flesh, has its roots not only in modern man, but has been with us since the beginning:

1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

The great Apostle, moved by the Holy Spirit gave us that Word to keep the body from winding up just where it choose to land today: The church is at war with itself over man’s religious perception, pettiness, and chosen self identification.

1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

In his efforts to comprehend what is spiritual through earthly and/or sometimes devilish wisdom, man continues to divide and alienate what God has made one body.
In truth, there is nothing of eternal value that is not discerned through and by the Spirit of God. These efforts no only are displeasing to God, but the haters (in the guise of good Christians) find themselves in the place of the Pharisees of old- in danger of fighting against God Himself.

The bible teaches us an important lesson on this point; if it is not of God it will fail:

Act 5:35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
Act 5:36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
Act 5:37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
Act 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
Act 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Psa 62:5 My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.
Psa 62:6 He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved.

 

[james1523]

The bible teaches us an important lesson on this point; if it is not of God it will fail:

Act 5:35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
Act 5:36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
Act 5:37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
Act 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
Act 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

We should note that the man who said these words was not an inspired man but speaking from human wisdom and prudence. It is right to speak against error and injustice in the Body of Christ, as led by the Lord. The righteous are, or can be, as bold as a lion, concerning satan and his doctrines (Prov 28:1). The foundation of the Christian faith, the doctrine of the Trinity, the creeds, even the New Testament Canon we have today, are testimony to those who spoke against the errors in the early church, whether Judaism or Gnosticism or Sabellianism . Being permitted by God and "of God' are two different things. God will use the first for His purpose, but will only recognize the second as His own.

 

[Eddy Fire]

come back again @Boanerges
do you think the fruit in God's 'basket' can rot?

brother, I think you left out one
the sad scenario of one who has fire and others rushing to put it out rather than to fan it on

in your second nickel post you say it is not God's will
you say that the Body is doing bad (paraphrased)
you talk of the things that shouldn't be done etc

going through Matthew today I heard Jesus saying that all this is (for lack of better words from me) God's will in that He has it sorted that way
why?
because His Body His Church is not like that

all these things you wrote about were happening in essence then and it was the people doing such things that He said WOE to
what we can be in danger of is compromise and entertaining the flesh/the world which is against the Gospel
you'll see that in all Paul's letters

what is happening today, even here, is that most are copying the rest, either here or from the world
in doctrinal mistakes or in simply making excuses for their flesh and the selling out on the Blood of the Lamb for easier on themselves thinking and teaching

peace did He come to bring?
No
a sword

but that doesn't mean what james1523 was saying, and with love but firmness, such talk is only another excuse

so many well meaning people come out with so much well meaning stuff
but that makes no difference to the truth except to pervert it and reject it

well meaning is not OK

some loud 'voices' are heard recently
one - God judges the heart - so it's OK (which interpreted means it doesn't matter to God what you do or don't do cos He only looks to see if your heart has a good sort of motive based on the moral standard of the world/flesh)
anyone here defend Hitler?

(the following may offend so if you are sensitive be warned and stop now, please)

using the norm of what is respected in circles of admiration of others
Hitler is OK and is Heaven bound based on the fact that he had a good intention in his heart and mind and worked hard to achieve it
he may even of had heard from the spirit but gone about doing it a little amiss because perhaps he didn't have the right opinions to help him out or maybe he just let the flesh get the better of things for a season
rather than all the do good intention people getting behind him and supporting him they went to war against him instead

Eddy are you kidding me???!!
no
I am using the mentality expressed here and elsewhere around the world by the many who choose to use the name of Jesus as their cloak
as He said will happen
and applying it to someone that everyone hates and thinks is evil

suppose all this is the other side of the coin (your nickel)

I like what you say about how we get bruising and the exhortation about it

we need this

Eddy
(the crowd might be wrong - the river flows - a resistance arises - so which way do we go?)
--------------------------
men, we have before us the rest of lives to live for Him but to do so means to be willing and wanting to stand up for truth to the extent that it might even hurt or cost what the rest tell you is more important

this is Scriptural and yet usually hushed up
like all truth in the days of Jesus was

this is the Church and it has no worldliness for it is His

 

[Boanerges]

First let me say this, these are meant to bless and encourage- it is okay if we do not agree on every dtail as long as we have Christ we are family.

Brother Eddie: If only everything we did was according to His perfect will, this world would be a wondrous place. Jesus did indeed come to give peace to His bride the church ( Joh_14:27 ). He did not bring peace to the lost world though, but a dividing sword (Heb_4:12).
I believe (my personal view) that our sins as believers are judged in Christ, which is a different judgement than the Great White Throne Judgement - that is not to say we should sin purposefully, but we are still wresting with unruly flesh, and from time to time everyone will falter.
Others may try to quench the Fire of God burning in one's heart, it is up to that one to guard his heart against this and to love those people while not being affected by that.

As far as the behavior of believers, there is of course the tare amongst the wheat, but there are also many levels of maturity amongst believers; from babes to Apostles, the church has them all. Some are at the same stage of spiritual maturity they were are 10 or 20 years ago. These spiritual babies do what babies do: they cry, and make a stinky mess from time to time- but they are no less precious in His eyes. Perhaps this is why Jesus told in His parables not to uproot the tare least some wheat be uprooted with it: in its final state the tare will stand tall and proud, while the wheat will bow humbly under the weight of the fruit if offers.

 

[Boanerges]

We should note that the man who said these words was not an inspired man but speaking from human wisdom and prudence. It is right to speak against error and injustice in the Body of Christ, as led by the Lord. The righteous are, or can be, as bold as a lion, concerning satan and his doctrines (Prov 28:1). The foundation of the Christian faith, the doctrine of the Trinity, the creeds, even the New Testament Canon we have today, are testimony to those who spoke against the errors in the early church, whether Judaism or Gnosticism or Sabellianism . Being permitted by God and "of God' are two different things. God will use the first for His purpose, but will only recognize the second as His own.

I would not argue with about what you are saying(although God did speak to some in the Old Covenant) , I do believe God put those words in our bible for a reason though. It is one thing to discuss doctrine in a loving manner, quite another to hatefully condemn your brothers because they do something different. God knows and searches their hearts.
If you will note, I have not really focused so much on doctrine in that post, but the heart of those who carelessly sling hate and slander. There is a needed place for correction in the Body, and also a specific way of doing so. Jesus came to set us free and to Love one another. Though, He did not major on the minors as was the custom of the pharisees.

 

[Eddy Fire]

thank you Larry

suppose a little fire in the heart is better than a fire in the tongue

is love all soft and fluffy?
do angels flutter like butterflies?
are faithful wounds better than deceitful kisses?

Jesus Christ
the Son of Man has taken the sins of the world upon His Cross
a servant can be wicked and a guest can be profane
He has called those He will
to declare His Holy Name
-------------------------------------
forgive me if I messed up your post brother, please

 

[Boanerges]

thank you Larry

suppose a little fire in the heart is better than a fire in the tongue

is love all soft and fluffy?
do angels flutter like butterflies?
are faithful wounds better than deceitful kisses?

Jesus Christ
the Son of Man has taken the sins of the world upon His Cross
a servant can be wicked and a guest can be profane
He has called those He will
to declare His Holy Name
-------------------------------------
forgive me if I messed up your post brother, please

Messed up my post? I cannot see how. It is a blessing breaking spiritual bread with you my brother.

Eph_4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Love is having all power yet praying for your enemies while the are nailing you to a cross- that is real power, that is real strength.
Perhaps the Word (a always) says it best:
1Co 13:4 Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil;
1Co 13:6 rejoiceth not in unrighteousness, but rejoiceth with the truth;
1Co 13:7 beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

If we walked to the farthest part of the earth to declare His Name, if we gave our all but love not, it is but a waste:
1Co 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing.
Surely we can love our brethren, surely we can learn as a body to stop trampling the weak, the babes, and killing our wounded.
If we do not show love to the brethren (1Jn 4:20 ) we cannot love God for God is Love Himself (1Jn 4:8).

Much love and many blessings,
your bother Larry.

 

[revbrad]

1 John 3: 14 - We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

 

[Eddy Fire]

loving enemies and brothers

@Boanerges
looking at the first ten verses of Galatians:
1Paul,
an apostle,

(not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

2And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

3Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, 4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5To whom be glory for ever and ever.
Amen.

6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


10For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

we see something twice - can you see it?
there is more than one point repeated - the one making the other imperative and obligatory

while we can adhere to principals and commands such as love your enemies and love your brother
we are faced with such responsibility to deal straightly with those who impose other than the Gospel preached that Paul refers to.
it is possible to misinterpret another's actions in regard to such vital matters as being a lack of love and therefore a disrespect or disregard for the command to love one another

at times we may be faced with enemies of the Gospel who may not be enemies of us ourselves directly.

does love come into the equation here if we follow through and "let him be accursed"?

 

[Boanerges]

@Boanerges
looking at the first ten verses of Galatians:
1Paul,
an apostle,

(not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

2And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

3Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, 4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5To whom be glory for ever and ever.
Amen.

6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


10For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

we see something twice - can you see it?
there is more than one point repeated - the one making the other imperative and obligatory

while we can adhere to principals and commands such as love your enemies and love your brother
we are faced with such responsibility to deal straightly with those who impose other than the Gospel preached that Paul refers to.
it is possible to misinterpret another's actions in regard to such vital matters as being a lack of love and therefore a disrespect or disregard for the command to love one another

at times we may be faced with enemies of the Gospel who may not be enemies of us ourselves directly.

does love come into the equation here if we follow through and "let him be accursed"?

Hi Eddie. If I did not make it clear in the OP, these are all non salvation issues I am discussing (where you meet, what kind of music do you use, style of service, how you dress, and etc. I have seen brothers at each others throats over something so trivial as the raising of a hand in worship.
As far as doctrinal difference on a salvation level ; this is not the purpose of this thread.
Tearing each other apart when we are to show others Christ by our Love (Joh_13:35 ) is the point here- fighting like a pack of dogs over nits to be picked is the style of (and no improvement on) Pharisee-ism.

 

[james1523]

Hi Eddie. If I did not make it clear in the OP, these are all non salvation issues I am discussing (where you meet, what kind of music do you use, style of service, how you dress, and etc. I have seen brothers at each others throats over something so trivial as the raising of a hand in worship.
As far as doctrinal difference on a salvation level ; this is not the purpose of this thread.
Tearing each other apart when we are to show others Christ by our Love (Joh_13:35 ) is the point here- fighting like a pack of dogs over nits to be picked is the style of (and no improvement on) Pharisee-ism.

I know the point of this thread is the fighting and nit picking not showing Christ's love... this is true. But as a comment on non-salvation issues in general...we cannot avoid to discuss them. Often the non-salvation issues are the important ones. Sure, perhaps not important to us if we are saved and going to heaven. But God cannot use a divided church so effectively.. so where and how we meet is important for another person's salvation and a Christian's spiritual growth. Many of the non-salvation issues impact the effectiveness of the church to accomplish and carry out God's will on the Earth. Smoking, alcohol and drug abuse, pornography, these are all non-salvation issues, but many are into bondage. Again.. belief in the gifts of the spirit.. not a salvation issue, but without the gifts we won't be doing much effective work for Christ. I believe that avoidance of non-salvation issues is not truly caring for God's will on the Earth. Our home in Heaven may be secured but more work needs to be done on Earth and to do that effectively a) we cannot be divided into so many denominations, sects and human organizations, this is not a good testimony of Christ's love to the world, and not according to God's heart, and b) time is precious and time is short.. can churches afford to be wasting time, effort and money on things that have little spiritual value.. e.g. rock music entertainment rather than preaching the Word for edification.

 

[Boanerges]

I know the point of this thread is the fighting and nit picking not showing Christ's love... this is true. But as a comment on non-salvation issues in general...we cannot avoid to discuss them. Often the non-salvation issues are the important ones. Sure, perhaps not important to us if we are saved and going to heaven. But God cannot use a divided church so effectively.. so where and how we meet is important for another person's salvation and a Christian's spiritual growth. Many of the non-salvation issues impact the effectiveness of the church to accomplish and carry out God's will on the Earth. Smoking, alcohol and drug abuse, pornography, these are all non-salvation issues, but many are into bondage. Again.. belief in the gifts of the spirit.. not a salvation issue, but without the gifts we won't be doing much effective work for Christ. I believe that avoidance of non-salvation issues is not truly caring for God's will on the Earth. Our home in Heaven may be secured but more work needs to be done on Earth and to do that effectively a) we cannot be divided into so many denominations, sects and human organizations, this is not a good testimony of Christ's love to the world, and not according to God's heart, and b) time is precious and time is short.. can churches afford to be wasting time, effort and money on things that have little spiritual value.. e.g. rock music entertainment rather than preaching the Word for edification.

I have never had a problem with discussion on any topic. Prejudice and hatred toward others for being a little different- I do have a problem with that; Sadly it seems to be the prevelant spirit amongst many concerning other groups of believers. Discussion amonst matrue believers can produce godly fruit, bitterness and hatred have their own fruit.
I can promise you one thing = we will not all agree on everything (as believers) until Jesus comes back.

 

[Boanerges]

Perhaps I can phrase it this way- the church is said to be the only army that kills its own wounded.

 

[Eddy Fire]

Perhaps I can phrase it this way- the church is said to be the only army that kills its own wounded.

that quote has been around and argued back and forth before today but I understand what you are trying to say

I liked your last post which replied to me because you tried to explain what it was your thread here was about
and again, forgive me if I said anything contrary to that Larry
I was trying to look at the whole picture and forgot to keep focused!

love and peace with grace to you