If you are married on earth will you still be married in heaven?

[Thiscrosshurts]

We don't know whether God will kill off all the remaining "dogs" on earth when it is renewed, and heaven is placed on earth. I sense that natural people will always be around, but reminding each other never to sin, easier done with the Devil in the lake that's burning with fire. It's very possible the work Jesus does those thousand years puts mankind back to the original state Adam enjoyed before sinning, which is supposed to be in force now in the children of God.

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
Jeremiah 31:34 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

John 17:22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one--
John 17:23 I in them and you in me--so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

I feel that the knowledge of God being universal would mean far more than we could ever imagine.

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

 

[Curtis]

Your head has a body attached. Is your head married to your body? No, as the head is part of the body. Christians are added to the body of Christ that body being the Church (ekklesia: congregation, assembly, or called out individuals) to whom the Holy Spirit is sent. A large remnant of Israel will be added too, having their own privileges at the Second Coming.

Is the husband the "head" of his wife? Are they married, and have they become one? Is not Christ the head of the Church? Are we not "one" with him? We are married to Christ how else can we be one with him? 1Cor 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.


Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
Eph 5:24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
Eph 5:26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
Eph 5:27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

Eph 5:29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church,
Eph 5:30 because we are members of his body.
Eph 5:31 "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."
Eph 5:32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.

Can you not see the connection between a husband and wife marriage and Christ with his Church? In the same way a husband and wife become one in marriage so does the Church with Christ!!

Mar 2:18 Now John's disciples and the Pharisees were fasting. And people came and said to him, "Why do John's disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?"
Mar 2:19 And Jesus said to them, "Can the wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them? As long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.

Who do you think this "bride groom" is?

Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Who is the "lamb"? Who is the lamb going to marry? What is his name? Is this event actually going to happen some day?

Isa 54:5 For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.

 

[Dovegiven]

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
Jeremiah 31:34 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

John 17:22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one--
John 17:23 I in them and you in me--so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

I feel that the knowledge of God being universal would mean far more than we could ever imagine.

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Keep in mind such things as for Hebrews 8:11 being a prophesy concerning the New Covenant for Israel to enjoy along with us gentile believers. It is engaged now for us.
It might not be all too blissful in eternity, some things hard to see. Isaiah 66:22-24 (KJV)
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

That seems to me a powerful deterrent for people not to sin. Whether those worshipers are all the redeemed in glorified bodies, or including people in natural flesh and blood, I can't assure.

 

[Dovegiven]

Is the husband the "head" of his wife? Are they married, and have they become one? Is not Christ the head of the Church? Are we not "one" with him? We are married to Christ how else can we be one with him? 1Cor 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.


Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
Eph 5:24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
Eph 5:26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
Eph 5:27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

Eph 5:29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church,
Eph 5:30 because we are members of his body.
Eph 5:31 "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."
Eph 5:32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.

You left off Ephesians 5:33 (KJV)
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Taking all that passage as applying directly to a marriage between Church and Christ, then Jesus must love the Church, but we the bride need only reverence and submit to him. Not so! That passage is not declaring a marriage between CHurch and Christ, but is comparing some aspects of the spiritual relationship of Christ to the Church, in that he gave himself in love to save us.

However, unlike a wife, I am commanded to love God, love Christ by doing his commandments. Any wife that claims to be in Christ and Christ in her must also love God, love Jesus, do his will.

Can you not see the connection between a husband and wife marriage and Christ with his Church? In the same way a husband and wife become one in marriage so does the Church with Christ!!

I see the truth of that passage as being from start to finish an instruction as to how much the husband must love his wife. No less than himself and God.

Mar 2:18 Now John's disciples and the Pharisees were fasting. And people came and said to him, "Why do John's disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?"
Mar 2:19 And Jesus said to them, "Can the wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them? As long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.

Who do you think this "bride groom" is?

The man in the parable Jesus taught to give his answer. The men hearing it understood the devotion of the disciples as "friends" as well as "servants", properly compared to wedding guests.

A bride was not nor ever will be considered among the guests invited to a wedding. The grooms' friends, guests, came to party with the groom, to celebrate with him, in the absence of his bride. You can call it an ancient Jewish bachelor's party in some ways. So if those disciples were but guests, then who is the bride you think is married to Jesus?

The "Bride (Church) of Christ" theory is deeply flawed, a favorite tradition not based on direct Bible doctrine, but must be developed by mixing and matching part of scripture passages, still failing the test of scriptural integrity. It's very bad exegesis, taking parables meant to teach specific lessons, using them literally to form doctrines not taught in the lessons.

Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Who is the "lamb"? Who is the lamb going to marry? What is his name? Is this event actually going to happen some day?

The whole of the city New Jerusalem is presented to Jesus completed, like a beautiful wife in an earthly marriage, attended by all the millions of guests of that ceremony, destined to live in that city in our glorified bodies after that ceremony which is immediately followed by joining Jesus as part of his army returning to earth to reign a thousand years. Each of us will be present wearing our robe of righteousness, by analogy clean and white linen. Clean and white linen is not that righteousness, seeing none of us are so arrayed now. However, His righteousness is now imputed to us, a spiritual endowment. His righteousness "worn" by us saints is typified by the linen. The concept of the linen was given to Moses, for the High priest to wear under his magnificent vestures.

Isa 54:5 For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.

Let's present more context.
Isaiah 54:1-5 (KJV)
1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

That was a promise to Israel, to be restored. God takes her back in Rev. 12, for those embracing Jesus Christ, becoming Christians yet of course Jews all the while, like Peter, Paul, etc.. Of course, the Lord extended the same benefits to Gentile Christians well before Israel is to be redeemed. The time for gentiles is drawing to a close, all emphasis about to swing to the saving of Israel. Understand that won't be "British Israel", or "Arian Israel", or any such nonsense of the Church being called Israel. It will be that nation in that ancient land of Israel, where Jerusalem is now, even though they are still suffering because of continued rejection of Christ. That will change in the Tribulation.

 

[Curtis]

The man in the parable Jesus taught to give his answer. The men hearing it understood the devotion of the disciples as "friends" as well as "servants", properly compared to wedding guests.

A bride was not nor ever will be considered among the guests invited to a wedding. The grooms' friends, guests, came to party with the groom, to celebrate with him, in the absence of his bride. You can call it an ancient Jewish bachelor's party in some ways. So if those disciples were but guests, then who is the bride you think is married to Jesus?

The "Bride (Church) of Christ" theory is deeply flawed, a favorite tradition not based on direct Bible doctrine, but must be developed by mixing and matching part of scripture passages, still failing the test of scriptural integrity. It's very bad exegesis, taking parables meant to teach specific lessons, using them literally to form doctrines not taught in the lessons.

No bride is ever invited to her own wedding, neither is a groom ever invited to his own wedding. There must be guests, or friends of the groom that attend this wedding. The "bride" is only made up of those who lived during the "Church" age, and are "born again" of incorruptible "seed" of the Word of God. The old testament saints were never born again by the Word, and Holy Spirit. Neither will be those who go through the tribulation be born again as they will have to die for what they believe. All the Old Testament, and tribulation saints will attend this marriage as "guests", and "friends" of the groom.

Jesus said.......

Luke 7:28 I tell you, among those born of women none is greater than John. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

Of all who have been born of women there is none greater than John the Baptist. But the least born again child of God is greater than him. John was never born again, even though he had the Holy Spirit from birth. What did John say about him self and Jesus?

John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
John 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

John was not a part of the bride, but he was a friend of the bridegroom as he said out of his own mouth, and this was his joy!!

 

[Dovegiven]

No bride is ever invited to her own wedding, neither is a groom ever invited to his own wedding. There must be guests, or friends of the groom that attend this wedding. The "bride" is only made up of those who lived during the "Church" age, and are "born again" of incorruptible "seed" of the Word of God. The old testament saints were never born again by the Word, and Holy Spirit. Neither will be those who go through the tribulation be born again as they will have to die for what they believe. All the Old Testament, and tribulation saints will attend this marriage as "guests", and "friends" of the groom.

Jesus said.......

Luke 7:28 I tell you, among those born of women none is greater than John. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

Of all who have been born of women there is none greater than John the Baptist. But the least born again child of God is greater than him. John was never born again, even though he had the Holy Spirit from birth. What did John say about him self and Jesus?

John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
John 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

John was not a part of the bride, but he was a friend of the bridegroom as he said out of his own mouth, and this was his joy!!

I think my case against the Bride hypothesis is finished, seeing you are not dealing with my points, yet I answered yours.

 

[Curtis]

The whole of the city New Jerusalem is presented to Jesus completed, like a beautiful wife in an earthly marriage, attended by all the millions of guests of that ceremony, destined to live in that city in our glorified bodies after that ceremony which is immediately followed by joining Jesus as part of his army returning to earth to reign a thousand years. Each of us will be present wearing our robe of righteousness, by analogy clean and white linen. Clean and white linen is not that righteousness, seeing none of us are so arrayed now. However, His righteousness is now imputed to us, a spiritual endowment. His righteousness "worn" by us saints is typified by the linen. The concept of the linen was given to Moses, for the High priest to wear under his magnificent vestures.

What makes up a "school" the building, or the people that go there? What makes up the New Jerusalem a building (City), or the people that make it up? Without the people there is no New Jerusalem!!!

Jer 33:16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

Is there ever a building called, "The LORD our righteousness. "?

Jerusalem is called "the Lord our righteousness." Who is called the "righteousness of God?

2Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The Church is the New Jerusalem were God dwells in his fullness!!!

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

There is NO temple in the New Jerusalem!!! why? Because "God Almighty, and the Lamb" are the temple!!!!!!

 

[Curtis]

I think my case against the Bride hypothesis is finished, seeing you are not dealing with my points, yet I answered yours.

I take one point at a time.

 

[Brother-Paul]

The problem with talking about Heaven is people rarely talk about it.

Even Pastor! Even when studying! The OT is studied, the Gospels and Epistles are studied, Revelations is considered/studied and Heaven, which, what's it like, what can we expect, is either not covered in depth or is missed completely.

Bookshops have 100's of books on Heaven and Angels but very few are scripture based. Even the ones that are may cover Heaven but miss out or hardly touch the New Earth.

We must look at the facts and make it clear, backed by scripture. When ever you attend a funeral service and listen to what is actually said you would think everyone goes to heaven! Not so as we know but what about Heaven?

I was fortunate at the end of June to speak at a funeral service, the person who had passed only accepted Jesus in the last 4-6 weeks of life, that is so sad although also a joy. Having been very fortunate that the Lord chose to use me to explain the Good News to the person, and to pray with him, knowing he prayed with the lips and from the heart, I was able to speak to the ones left behind, and able to quote, at a funeral service, John 3:3. How many hearts it touched we do not know, but God does, the rest and timing is up to Him. I have never been to a funeral service and heard John 3:3 ever mentioned, it is normally the same scripture verses, the Fathers house has many rooms and reassurance of a place in Heaven. Although we must be gracious and compassionate we also have a duty to make known the Truth in the Word.

Heaven is not what most books write about it. I knew what I put would ring alarm bells with some. But it is important to forget what we may have heard and accept what scripture tells us about Heaven.

Heaven is an amazing place, but the Heaven we go to when we die is only temporary until we get our New Resurrected Bodies on the New Earth.

I think this discussion should be in a new thread, as it is deviating away from 'Are we still married in Heaven?' so I will consider starting it in a new thread in the next couple of weeks, there will be many more questions to consider and discuss together regarding when we are in the temporary or intermediate Heaven and when that Heaven comes down to Earth, to the New Earth when we get our New Resurrected Bodies.

 

[Curtis]

The problem with talking about Heaven is people rarely talk about it.

Even Pastor! Even when studying! The OT is studied, the Gospels and Epistles are studied, Revelations is considered/studied and Heaven, which, what's it like, what can we expect, is either not covered in depth or is missed completely.

Bookshops have 100's of books on Heaven and Angels but very few are scripture based. Even the ones that are may cover Heaven but miss out or hardly touch the New Earth.

We must look at the facts and make it clear, backed by scripture. When ever you attend a funeral service and listen to what is actually said you would think everyone goes to heaven! Not so as we know but what about Heaven?

I was fortunate at the end of June to speak at a funeral service, the person who had passed only accepted Jesus in the last 4-6 weeks of life, that is so sad although also a joy. Having been very fortunate that the Lord chose to use me to explain the Good News to the person, and to pray with him, knowing he prayed with the lips and from the heart, I was able to speak to the ones left behind, and able to quote, at a funeral service, John 3:3. How many hearts it touched we do not know, but God does, the rest and timing is up to Him. I have never been to a funeral service and heard John 3:3 ever mentioned, it is normally the same scripture verses, the Fathers house has many rooms and reassurance of a place in Heaven. Although we must be gracious and compassionate we also have a duty to make known the Truth in the Word.

Heaven is not what most books write about it. I knew what I put would ring alarm bells with some. But it is important to forget what we may have heard and accept what scripture tells us about Heaven.

Heaven is an amazing place, but the Heaven we go to when we die is only temporary until we get our New Resurrected Bodies on the New Earth.

I think this discussion should be in a new thread, as it is deviating away from 'Are we still married in Heaven?' so I will consider starting it in a new thread in the next couple of weeks, there will be many more questions to consider and discuss together regarding when we are in the temporary or intermediate Heaven and when that Heaven comes down to Earth, to the New Earth when we get our New Resurrected Bodies.

Brother, one thing that is absolutely true, no matter what we think scripture says, and that is if a "person is in Christ", and all born again believers are, then wherever Christ is, that is exactly were we are, whether we are alive or dead physically!!! Is Jesus Christ sitting in a temporary Heaven right now on his Fathers throne?

 

[Dovegiven]

What makes up a "school" the building, or the people that go there? What makes up the New Jerusalem a building (City), or the people that make it up? Without the people there is no New Jerusalem!!!

Jer 33:16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

Is there ever a building called, "The LORD our righteousness. "?

Jerusalem is called "the Lord our righteousness." Who is called the "righteousness of God?

2Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The Church is the New Jerusalem were God dwells in his fullness!!!

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

There is NO temple in the New Jerusalem!!! why? Because "God Almighty, and the Lamb" are the temple!!!!!!

Correct, no temple building, like when God rent the veil exposing the Holy of Holies at the crucifixion of Christ.

Please then explain in relation to that
Revelation 22:1-5 (KJV)
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Will not there be two thrones visible to all, there being no walls of a temple? The original walls were designed to limit viewing of the Holy.

 

[Curtis]

Correct, no temple building, like when God rent the veil exposing the Holy of Holies at the crucifixion of Christ.

Please then explain in relation to that
Revelation 22:1-5 (KJV)
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Will not there be two thrones visible to all, there being no walls of a temple? The original walls were designed to limit viewing of the Holy.

There is only "one" throne not two. As Jesus said here.

Rev 3:21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Also note, there will be no sun, or moon as Jesus Christ is the "light" of this city.

Rev 21:23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

This "light which Jesus Christ is the "Glory" of the Father, lights up the entire city. The whole city is said be "God Almighty, and the lamb"

Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

I think our understanding of how the Lord God is in his nature, is flawed as God is "light", "love", and "a consuming fire", But if we want to see God in his entirety, that can only be seen in the person of Jesus Christ. In Christ lives and dwells all the fullness of the Godhead "bodily" ( Col 2:9 ) Jesus is the exact expression and image of the invisible God.( Hebrews 1:3 )
When we see God it will be Jesus Christ, along with his Father dwelling inside in his fullness, along with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dovegiven]

The problem with talking about Heaven is people rarely talk about it.

Even Pastor! Even when studying! The OT is studied, the Gospels and Epistles are studied, Revelations is considered/studied and Heaven, which, what's it like, what can we expect, is either not covered in depth or is missed completely.

Bookshops have 100's of books on Heaven and Angels but very few are scripture based. Even the ones that are may cover Heaven but miss out or hardly touch the New Earth.

We must look at the facts and make it clear, backed by scripture. When ever you attend a funeral service and listen to what is actually said you would think everyone goes to heaven! Not so as we know but what about Heaven?

I was fortunate at the end of June to speak at a funeral service, the person who had passed only accepted Jesus in the last 4-6 weeks of life, that is so sad although also a joy. Having been very fortunate that the Lord chose to use me to explain the Good News to the person, and to pray with him, knowing he prayed with the lips and from the heart, I was able to speak to the ones left behind, and able to quote, at a funeral service, John 3:3. How many hearts it touched we do not know, but God does, the rest and timing is up to Him. I have never been to a funeral service and heard John 3:3 ever mentioned, it is normally the same scripture verses, the Fathers house has many rooms and reassurance of a place in Heaven. Although we must be gracious and compassionate we also have a duty to make known the Truth in the Word.

Heaven is not what most books write about it. I knew what I put would ring alarm bells with some. But it is important to forget what we may have heard and accept what scripture tells us about Heaven.

Heaven is an amazing place, but the Heaven we go to when we die is only temporary until we get our New Resurrected Bodies on the New Earth.

I think this discussion should be in a new thread, as it is deviating away from 'Are we still married in Heaven?' so I will consider starting it in a new thread in the next couple of weeks, there will be many more questions to consider and discuss together regarding when we are in the temporary or intermediate Heaven and when that Heaven comes down to Earth, to the New Earth when we get our New Resurrected Bodies.

Is not there a major resurrection of saints we call the "rapture", during which the living in Christ also rise and will assemble with Jesus in glorified bodies? At some point we all join his army and descend to earth, ending the tribulation, then ruling with Christ a thousand years. At the end of that comes the New Earth after all sin is eradicated, and the New Jerusalem is brought out of heaven to earth.

Back to the OP. When a married saint dies, that ends that marriage. The surviving spouse is free to marry again.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Brother, one thing that is absolutely true, no matter what we think scripture says, and that is if a "person is in Christ", and all born again believers are, then wherever Christ is, that is exactly were we are, whether we are alive or dead physically!!! Is Jesus Christ sitting in a temporary Heaven right now on his Fathers throne?

Hello Curtis

Just to clarify the discussion as I see it so far, in accordance with Scripture.

Yes, it is very true and in line with scripture that, when a born again, believer dies they go to Heaven.

Scripture does not say there is a temporary Heaven, lets avoid any misunderstanding here, but it does confirm we go to Heaven, which Jesus called Paradise to the dying thief on the cross next to Him. So this Heaven, this place born again Christians go to when they die will be a wonderful place.

But in Heaven, the Heaven we go to when we die, we will be spirits, having not yet received our resurrected bodies which we are promised we will receive.

So in effect this is a temporary Heaven, or a Present Heaven, it is an intermediate place whilst we wait for....

Christ's Return and our New Resurrected Bodies, which we will have on the New Earth. This therefore confirms that the first place is temporary, but it is Heaven as confirmed in the Bible, although it is as Jesus says Paradise the New Earth will be even better, now that to me means we are in for a real treat.

Why, because first we go UP to Heaven, then on the New Earth, that comes DOWN from Heaven we will be with God, we will be with our Lord forever, He comes down to Earth and we will be with Him for all eternity, then with our New Resurrected Bodies.

Heaven is Paradise, the New Earth will be better than we could ever dream. That is where our focus should be, on our Lord and in the New Heaven and Earth which by then will be joined, not separated by sin.

It therefore seems logical to me that the first place we go UP to which is Heaven, is the same Heaven that comes DOWN to Earth. Heaven is God's home, God will be with us on Earth after Christ's Return.

This points us back to the Garden of Eden situation, prior to the Fall, when God walked in the Garden with Adam whom He created. We will walk with Him. How wonderful is that?

 

[Curtis]

Hello Curtis

Just to clarify the discussion as I see it so far, in accordance with Scripture.

Yes, it is very true and in line with scripture that, when a born again, believer dies they go to Heaven.

Scripture does not say there is a temporary Heaven, lets avoid any misunderstanding here, but it does confirm we go to Heaven, which Jesus called Paradise to the dying thief on the cross next to Him. So this Heaven, this place born again Christians go to when they die will be a wonderful place.

But in Heaven, the Heaven we go to when we die, we will be spirits, having not yet received our resurrected bodies which we are promised we will receive.

So in effect this is a temporary Heaven, or a Present Heaven, it is an intermediate place whilst we wait for....

Christ's Return and our New Resurrected Bodies, which we will have on the New Earth. This therefore confirms that the first place is temporary, but it is Heaven as confirmed in the Bible, although it is as Jesus says Paradise the New Earth will be even better, now that to me means we are in for a real treat.

Why, because first we go UP to Heaven, then on the New Earth, that comes DOWN from Heaven we will be with God, we will be with our Lord forever, He comes down to Earth and we will be with Him for all eternity, then with our New Resurrected Bodies.

Heaven is Paradise, the New Earth will be better than we could ever dream. That is where our focus should be, on our Lord and in the New Heaven and Earth which by then will be joined, not separated by sin.

It therefore seems logical to me that the first place we go UP to which is Heaven, is the same Heaven that comes DOWN to Earth. Heaven is God's home, God will be with us on Earth after Christ's Return.

This points us back to the Garden of Eden situation, prior to the Fall, when God walked in the Garden with Adam whom He created. We will walk with Him. How wonderful is that?

While I do agree with most of what you said, but. There seems always to be a but. I do believe there was a place called "paradise" in which all the old testament saints went after physical death. But that was only to be a "temporary" holding place until the Messiah would come and fulfill the atonement for mans sins. Then lead those who were there to the true Heavenly Kingdom. I believe this scripture tells us that......

Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Some believe this refers to Satan, but that cannot be as Satan was not lead up on high, but cast down at the crucifixion of Christ on his cross.
These would be the ones who were held in "paradise" until Jesus came to lead them up on high to His Kingdom of light. Notice it says, "he led captivity captive,"
If you are married were you ever "captivated" by the beauty of your wife when you were young? She pretty much held you captive by her beauty, and she led you around, and you were willing follow her were ever she went.
I do not believe "paradise" exists any longer as now everyone goes directly to Heaven once becoming born again, and or at physical death.

I do agree that all those there are "spirits" which also this scripture tells us. This is were we are right now......

Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,
Heb 12:23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

 

[Brother-Paul]

While I do agree with most of what you said, but. There seems always to be a but. I do believe there was a place called "paradise" in which all the old testament saints went after physical death. But that was only to be a "temporary" holding place until the Messiah would come and fulfill the atonement for mans sins. Then lead those who were there to the true Heavenly Kingdom. I believe this scripture tells us that......

Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

I cannot agree that Paradise was for the Old Testament Saints only up until Jesus.

Just before the sixth hours on the cross the dying thief next to Jesus said...

Luke 23:40-42 (KJV)
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

At this stage Jesus said...

Luke 23:43 (KJV)
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Jesus didn't say in the past you would have gone to Paradise, He said Today you will be with me in Paradise. As he had not died at that point He was pointing forward to Paradise the Present Heaven.

I do not believe "paradise" exists any longer as now everyone goes directly to Heaven once becoming born again, and or at physical death.

Heaven is Heaven, Past, Present or Future it is still Heaven.
You have confirmed the Past Heaven. Surely Luke 23:43 stated above confirms the Present Heaven and when we get our Resurrected Bodies is the Future Heaven.

But ALL are Heaven. This is the issue, I think, Heaven is talked about as a place Christians go when they die and people do not look further as to what it would be like.

Are we not on a journey, this life is short compared to the place we will go. If going on holiday to a place we have not been before would we not do a little research to see what it will be like? Heaven is for all eternity should we not search scripture to find out more, eternity is a very long time. The choice we all know is, Heaven or Hell, eternity in Hell is unthinkable, but in Heaven Present, it is as Jesus says, Paradise, how much better it will be, better than Paradise, when we have Resurrected Bodies and are with God, with our Lord on the New Earth.

I do agree that all those there are "spirits" which also this scripture tells us. This is were we are right now......

Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,
Heb 12:23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Having discussed and confirmed the Past Heaven, and the Present Heaven and knowing we will not receive our Resurrected Bodies until Christ's Return that also confirms the intermediate state.

Our bodies, As Adam's are made from the dust of the earth and God's spirit. When we die the bodies goes back to the dust of the earth but the Spirit 'belongs with God' and therefore goes back to God.

1 - if we are born again we go to Heaven, the Present temporary Heaven, until Christ's Return.
2 - if we are not born again we go to the temporary Hell until The Great White Throne and receive the judgement we deserve for rejecting God's one and only Son, Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.

Our Spirit came from God, it belongs to God, that is why it goes back to God, that is why we are judged, He gave us the spirit, He gave us life, although sin separates us from God, He gave us all the same chance to return to Him and in doing so will in due time be like Adam before the Fall, we will be with God in the New Heaven and Earth, which are one, not separated by sin, we will be with Him for all eternity.

 

[Curtis]

I cannot agree that Paradise was for the Old Testament Saints only up until Jesus.

Just before the sixth hours on the cross the dying thief next to Jesus said...

Luke 23:40-42 (KJV)
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

At this stage Jesus said...

Luke 23:43 (KJV)
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

No body was born again until after Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, and then as proof of that he sent the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit along with he Word of God are the two things need for a person to become saved.

Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

1Pe 1:23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

When did Jesus raise from the dead? How many days did he stay on earth until he ascended to his Father in Heaven? Did Jesus go the Heaven on the exact day he died?
Paradise is NOT Heaven. Jesus was raise to Heaven after 40 days, then he sat down on the right hand of God. Jesus did not ascend to "paradise"!!! Paradise was the place where all the old testament saints were held until Jesus led them to Heaven!!

 

[Bendito]

Again, as reported above in red, words of Jesus, 9 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Tradition has it that we are a bride, Jesus our bridegroom. However, Jesus says "no marriage there, but we'll be as the angels there. The scriptures don't link angels to God in marriage. We are Jesus' brethren, his friends too.
So no, none of us married to a wife here will remain married to her or anyone else in Heaven. Singles will enjoy the same relationship with Jesus, joint heirs of salvation no less marvelous than the highest angel, made like Jesus is now.

The Church being a "Bride of Christ" concept has done damage around the world among people finding that concept to be offensive, with males married to a male. It's offensive because that isn't clearly taught in the Bible, and doesn't fit the brother/friend relationship that is taught. It has to be "untaught" so to speak. Jesus compared the Church to a bride & groom in a few ways, but never said we are a bride, nor did any apostle hint at it. The heavenly city "New Jerusalem" is presented like a beautiful bride in Revelation, but is a city, not a being.

The idea of the church being the bride of Christ.....Well the bible teaches it.

The Church being a "Bride of Christ" concept has done damage around the world among people finding that concept to be offensive, with males married to a male. It's offensive because that isn't clearly taught in the Bible, and doesn't fit the brother/friend relationship that is taught. It has to be "untaught" so to speak. Jesus compared the Church to a bride & groom in a few ways, but never said we are a bride, nor did any apostle hint at it. The heavenly city "New Jerusalem" is presented like a beautiful bride in Revelation, but is a city, not a being.

This is pure sexist tripe..Look at it. Marriage is a type of Christ and the Church.. Joseph (of the many colored coat) was a type of Christ; The bible is full of typology Men don't have to fear that the bride is female. Do they really think Jesus is gay? It is clearly taught in the bible is so far as anything is taught clearly in the bible. You will notice that to get the entire picture on any subject, one must go on a 'treasure hunt'...The answers are strewn all through the Word. This is part of the mystery. You as a Christian get to solve the mystery. You were even given a guide to the solving of it. God gave you HIS Holy Spirit to act as counselor and teacher. Instead what do people do? They try to sort it out in a brainiac fashion. "Leave God out of it, I can figure it out on my own" Like that silly movie (yeah the one I enjoyed so much) said "Human brains leak"
We cannot understand God's Word without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. These men who take offense have to bend the knee and listen to their counselor.
Notice that I did not explain it beyond the typology aspect.. Encourage these silly men to get into the Word more. Please!

 

[Brother-Paul]

No body was born again until after Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, and then as proof of that he sent the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit along with he Word of God are the two things need for a person to become saved.

Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

1Pe 1:23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

These verses confirm being saved, we have to be saved to go to Heaven. They do not talk about Heaven.

When did Jesus raise from the dead? How many days did he stay on earth until he ascended to his Father in Heaven? Did Jesus go the Heaven on the exact day he died?

None of those statements refer to a Christian going to Heaven, they talk only of Jesus.

The only statement I included about Jesus was in referring to His statement of Paradise, and as He said it before He died He was referring to the Present Heaven as being Paradise.

Luke 23:43 (KJV)
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Paradise is NOT Heaven. Jesus was raise to Heaven after 40 days, then he sat down on the right hand of God. Jesus did not ascend to "paradise"!!! Paradise was the place where all the old testament saints were held until Jesus led them to Heaven!!

No one said Paradise is Not Heaven, the reference from scripture was that Jesus called the Present Heaven Paradise.

 

[Curtis]

These verses confirm being saved, we have to be saved to go to Heaven. They do not talk about Heaven.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: