If we know Christmas is Pagan, why still Celebrate it?

[B-A-C]

Psalms 95:6; Matt 4:10; Rev 14:7;.. there are others.

• Luke 2:13-14: The angels praised God at Jesus’ birth, saying “Glory to God in the highest…”. This shows heaven rejoiced at the incarnation.
• Matthew 2:11: The Magi worshiped Jesus and brought gifts. While not a command to celebrate annually, it demonstrates honoring His birth.

1. No Early Christian Sources Link Christmas to Pagan Worship
   • The earliest Christian references to celebrating Christ’s birth (2nd–3rd century) are theological, not syncretistic.
   • Writers like Hippolytus (c. 204 AD) and Theophilus of Antioch (late 2nd century) discuss the birth of Christ without any mention of pagan customs.
2. Pagan Festivals Were Separate
   • Saturnalia (Dec 17–23) and Sol Invictus (Dec 25) were Roman festivals, but there is no evidence Christians adopted their rituals.
   • By the time December 25 was chosen (4th century), paganism was declining in the Roman Empire, and Christianity was becoming dominant.
3. Date Selection Was Theological, Not Pagan
   • Many scholars argue December 25 was calculated from the belief that Jesus was conceived on March 25 (the Annunciation), making His birth nine months later.
   • This reasoning appears in early Christian writings, not pagan texts.

​

• No historical document says: “Christians borrowed pagan customs for Christmas.”
• No church father or council records indicate syncretism.
• Claims of pagan origin mostly come from modern theories (18th–19th century), not ancient evidence.

---

Bottom Line​

Christmas did not start as a pagan holiday. It began as a Christian celebration of the incarnation, and while its date coincided with some pagan festivals, the meaning and practice were distinctly Christian from the start.

If you have any evidence (so far you have shown none, absolutely zero) that it was ever a pagan holiday, please post links.
(I'm not talking about someone's opinion) but real scholastic links.

 

[B-A-C]

Hippolytus of Rome (c. 170–235 AD)​

• In his Commentary on Daniel (c. 204 AD), Hippolytus explicitly states that Jesus “was born on December 25th” in Bethlehem “in the reign of Augustus”. [patheos.com], [biblicalar...eology.org]
• Scholars highlight that this predates the establishment of December 25 as a Christian feast. Crucially, it appears before Roman pagan festivals like Sol Invictus (which began later), indicating the date’s origin was theological, not pagan syncretism. [biblicalar...eology.org], [academia.edu]
• This inclusion in a third-century text suggests an early Christian tradition associating Jesus’s birth with December 25, based on theological calculations (e.g., conception on March 25). [biblicalar...eology.org], [iapologia.com]

​

• A document known as the Epistle of Theophilus(or “Council of Caesarea,” c. AD 196) includes a statement:
  

  “But as we keep the nativity of the Lord on whatever day December 25 falls…”
  implying that the Gauls observed Christ’s birth on that date before AD 196. [dec25th.info], [academia.edu]

• While likely a literary work of Irish origin from the 7th century, the content probably reflects a true tradition—supporting the idea that Christians in Gaul recognized December 25 as a Christmas date by the late 2nd century. [dec25th.info], [academia.edu]
• Although not from Theophilus himself, this source highlights the early spread of December 25 as a recognized date for celebrating the Nativity.

So we have two well known Christian writers who say the tradition of Christians was started as early and the 2nd century.

 

[B-A-C]

Christmas Trees Are Still Not Pagan

Tim Barnett shares three reasons why Jeremiah 10:1–4 does not condemn Christmas trees.

www.str.org

Christmas Isn’t Pagan

No modern Christmas tradition can draw a strait line to any clear and decisive pagan origin.

ca.thegospelcoalition.org

Debunking the Myth of Christmas's Pagan Roots: The True Origins of Christmas

BY DIMOSTHENIS VASILOUDIS

www.thearchaeologist.org

Christmas Isn’t Pagan and Here’s Why by Wes Huff

As we approach the Christmas season, I thought it would be good to share this interesting video, which counters many misconceptions.

reformedbaptistblog.com

youtube, christmas was never pagan - Search Videos

Watch videos instantly on Bing—enjoy direct playback, discover related clips, and dive into trending content all in one place.

www.bing.com

It was never Pagan.

 

[Gerbolski]

I will have to disagree, too many evidence otherwise, even Tertullian mentioned the Christians being caught up in Brumalia and other festivals, and it put pressure on the leaders of that day to conform, but I will keep that to that other thread.

Many of those early writings seem to be false.

But regardless to that, you must not mix the holy with the unholy, you must not call Chris's birth what it is not, you must not Christianize things.

Christ's birth is legit, it is not a commandment to celebrate, but if one considers Christ's birth, one must consider no mixture, using wisdom, and being honest and being full of reverence towards him and his name, and how he wants to be worshiped, not how we want to serve him..

Deu 12:30-31
(30) Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
(31) Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

 

[BroTan]

The commandments of God is to worship Him. The commandment of man, is not to.

The history book a Pictorial History of the Italian People states, "Saint Gregory was repelled by Graeco-Roman civilization and, paradoxically, did more than anyone else to facilitate the absorption of pagan residues into Italian Christianity. Through that process of absorption, any paganism hostile to Christianity remaining in Italian rural communities faded away".

The simple fact is that, as more and more people from throughout the Western Roman Empire became converted to an increasingly popular Christianity, they brought many of their favorite customs with them. "The pagan [winter festivals of the] Saturnalia and Brumalia were too deeply entrenched in popular custom to be set aside by Christian influence... The pagan festival with its riot and merrymaking was so popular that Christians were glad of an excuse to continue its celebration with little change in spirit or in manner... Christians of Mesopotamia accused their western brethren of idolatry and sun-worship for adopting as Christian this pagan festival. Yet the festival rapidly gained acceptance and became at last so firmly entrenched that even the Protestant revolution of the sixteenth century was not able to dislodge it..." (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Volume III, article "Christmas.") You see this going on in churches today. Churches are constantly recruiting new members from other denominations and they often bring some aspect of their previous church to the new one. If you notice, many Christians today celebrate the Roman Catholic tradition of Lent. Historically, Lent, was not celebrated by Protestant churches.

Commandments of men

 

[BroTan]

Luke 2
9 And an angel of the Lord suddenly stood near them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them; and they were terribly frightened.
10 And so the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people;
11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
12 And this will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”
13 And suddenly there appeared with the angel a multitude of the heavenly army of angels praising God and saying,
14 “Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among people [k]with whom He is pleased.”

see Hebrews 1:6

Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. Why, because we feed and shelter the less fortunate on this one day called Christmas? Shouldn't we care for the less fortunate all year long? Retailers increase the prices on merchandise, to try to recover from poor sales from the 1st three-quarters of the fiscal year.

Christmas (December 25th) is taught to be the day that Jesus the Christ was born. The fact is Jesus was not even born in the winter season. When Jesus was born, "there were shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8). This could never have occurred in Judea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them no later than October, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed. Notice in Songs of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season and typically the herds would most likely not be out in the rainy winter season. "It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.) Continuing, "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As..the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in October), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on December 25th, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were in the fields by night.

Therefore, to celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. Any encyclopedia will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25th. The exact date of Jesus' birth is entirely unknown, as all authorities acknowledge - though by reading the scriptures, it strongly indicates His birth was in the early fall, probably September, approximately six months after Passover. This can also be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia 1967.

 

[BroTan]

No offense meant
I just find it absurd there are Christians against celebrating the Birth of the Savior.. meanwhile the Islamics are trying to force removal of it in countries they invaded..

Personally I just like to keep hope that at least one day a year I know that other brothers n sisters in other countries are rejoicing and praising Him

I have hope it will be as it is written n that may I will get to see it play out before I leave this earth

And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them

I believe those who have a problem with celebrating the birth of the Lord has had their heart hearden in some way at some time for if they didn't would they not know the Lord takes what is meant to harm and turns it for good??

Would they not feel some kind of shame telling people they shouldn't celebrate the Birth of the Lord when in fact the Angels themselves rejoiced at His birth?

People can't control how others see but they can ask the Lord to guide their ways .

behold, the kingdom of God is within you

I'm j.s.

Hope all's well

ᕦ⁠⊙⁠෴⁠⊙⁠ᕤ

(⁠@⁠_⁠@⁠)

Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. Why, because we feed and shelter the less fortunate on this one day called Christmas? Shouldn't we care for the less fortunate all year long? Retailers increase the prices on merchandise, to try to recover from poor sales from the 1st three-quarters of the fiscal year.

Christmas (December 25th) is taught to be the day that Jesus the Christ was born. The fact is Jesus was not even born in the winter season. When Jesus was born, "there were shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8). This could never have occurred in Judea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them no later than October, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed. Notice in Songs of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season and typically the herds would most likely not be out in the rainy winter season. "It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.) Continuing, "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As..the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in October), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on December 25th, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were in the fields by night.

Therefore, to celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. Any encyclopedia will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25th. The exact date of Jesus' birth is entirely unknown, as all authorities acknowledge - though by reading the scriptures, it strongly indicates His birth was in the early fall, probably September, approximately six months after Passover. This can also be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia 1967.
If Jesus is the reason for the season, then why didn't He let us know when to celebrate his birth? We claim we love Jesus so much but why don't we observe his death as he commanded us. Luke 22:19, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and break it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me."

 

[Twistie]

Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. Why, because we feed and shelter the less fortunate on this one day called Christmas? Shouldn't we care for the less fortunate all year long? Retailers increase the prices on merchandise, to try to recover from poor sales from the 1st three-quarters of the fiscal year.

Christmas (December 25th) is taught to be the day that Jesus the Christ was born. The fact is Jesus was not even born in the winter season. When Jesus was born, "there were shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8). This could never have occurred in Judea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them no later than October, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed. Notice in Songs of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season and typically the herds would most likely not be out in the rainy winter season. "It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.) Continuing, "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As..the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in October), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on December 25th, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were in the fields by night.

Therefore, to celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. Any encyclopedia will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25th. The exact date of Jesus' birth is entirely unknown, as all authorities acknowledge - though by reading the scriptures, it strongly indicates His birth was in the early fall, probably September, approximately six months after Passover. This can also be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia 1967.
If Jesus is the reason for the season, then why didn't He let us know when to celebrate his birth? We claim we love Jesus so much but why don't we observe his death as he commanded us. Luke 22:19, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and break it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me."

I will keep you in prayers..

Using the Word of the Living God to claim not to celebrate the birth of the Savior isn't a very wise move on your part..

The kingdom of heaven is within and what ever is in you n those who are doing what you're doing is not the Kingdom of the Living God..

You may want to exam yourselves and to take counsel with the Lord..for the fruit your dropping is not Good..quite the opposite..

Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Hope all is well with ya!

୧⁠(⁠＾⁠ ⁠〰⁠ ⁠＾⁠)⁠୨

 

[Twistie]

The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you"

But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you".

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:

But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.

And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

ᕙ⁠[⁠･⁠۝･⁠]⁠ᕗ

 

[BroTan]

I will keep you in prayers..

Using the Word of the Living God to claim not to celebrate the birth of the Savior isn't a very wise move on your part..

The kingdom of heaven is within and what ever is in you n those who are doing what you're doing is not the Kingdom of the Living God..

You may want to exam yourselves and to take counsel with the Lord..for the fruit your dropping is not Good..quite the opposite..

Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Hope all is well with ya!

୧⁠(⁠＾⁠ ⁠〰⁠ ⁠＾⁠)⁠୨

I'm sorry Twistie, but our lord and Savior never told us his birth, and for a reason, because his death is more important. "And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that the entire world should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed every one into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. And she and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn". (St. Luke 2:1-7)

"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also. When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh". (St. Matthew 2:1-11)

The bible record of the birth of Jesus doesn't give a date for his birth. Even Herod, the King of Judea, didn't know the date of Jesus birth; so how can we know it? The wise men (maybe 2 or 300), the bible didn't give a number, found the young child (not infant) in the house (not the manger). Well, so much for that fairy tale.

 

[Twistie]

I'm sorry Twistie, but our lord and Savior never told us his birth, and for a reason, because his death is more important. "And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that the entire world should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed every one into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. And she and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn". (St. Luke 2:1-7)

"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also. When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh". (St. Matthew 2:1-11)

The bible record of the birth of Jesus doesn't give a date for his birth. Even Herod, the King of Judea, didn't know the date of Jesus birth; so how can we know it? The wise men (maybe 2 or 300), the bible didn't give a number, found the young child (not infant) in the house (not the manger). Well, so much for that fairy tale.

No need to be sorry.. only One can reveal

Like I said idk what Kingdom is in those who are against rejoicing in the birth n resurrection.. but I do know it's not His Spirit that's tells one to not rejoice in the birth n resurrection of Abbas greatest Gift He bestowed upon us..

I just find it sad how many have fell away how many are against celebrating His birth n how many are against celebrating His reserection.

that day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people

I will keep you in prayers that your heart softens.. sad how one will spread encouragement not to celebrate the Lord..sad how many give satan the Days the Lord has made sad that because one celebrated the birth like the world n just assume n pass judgement that all do as they have done..

Like I tell the children the Lord had blessed me with it is the Job of the World to harden that heart.. exam yourselves deeply and take counsel with the Lord and allow Him to guide you .

Just because one was brought up praising Santa and expecting lots of presents under a tree n thats what Christmas is to them..
That don't mean all do..

I'm j.s.


I do enjoy conversion with you.. I believe you have never called me derogatory names for how the Lord allows me to see .n I truly appreciate that @BroTan


୧⁠(⁠＾⁠ ⁠〰⁠ ⁠＾⁠)⁠୨

 

[BroTan]

No need to be sorry.. only One can reveal

Like I said idk what Kingdom is in those who are against rejoicing in the birth n resurrection.. but I do know it's not His Spirit that's tells one to not rejoice in the birth n resurrection of Abbas greatest Gift He bestowed upon us..

I just find it sad how many have fell away how many are against celebrating His birth n how many are against celebrating His reserection.

that day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people

I will keep you in prayers that your heart softens.. sad how one will spread encouragement not to celebrate the Lord..sad how many give satan the Days the Lord has made sad that because one celebrated the birth like the world n just assume n pass judgement that all do as they have done..

Like I tell the children the Lord had blessed me with it is the Job of the World to harden that heart.. exam yourselves deeply and take counsel with the Lord and allow Him to guide you .

Just because one was brought up praising Santa and expecting lots of presents under a tree n thats what Christmas is to them..
That don't mean all do..

I'm j.s.


I do enjoy conversion with you.. I believe you have never called me derogatory names for how the Lord allows me to see .n I truly appreciate that @BroTan


୧⁠(⁠＾⁠ ⁠〰⁠ ⁠＾⁠)⁠୨

The Bible tells us to remember his death (which is the Passover); it says nothing about celebrating his birth. It doesn't even tell you when he was born.

"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might. Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? For to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.

But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities. Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men. But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. Thus shall ye say unto them, the gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightning’s with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.

Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish". (Jeremiah 10:1-15)

Now the Bible tells us in (Isaiah 1:18) "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:" After reading this, and hopefully doing some research on your own.

 

[Twistie]

The Bible tells us to remember his death (which is the Passover); it says nothing about celebrating his birth. It doesn't even tell you when he was born.

"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might. Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? For to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.

But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities. Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men. But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. Thus shall ye say unto them, the gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightning’s with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.

Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish". (Jeremiah 10:1-15)

Now the Bible tells us in (Isaiah 1:18) "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:" After reading this, and hopefully doing some research on your own.

I know what He tells me lol I talk to Him every day He leads me . It's not for me to convince you.. Lord says follow Him so I do..

Research? Lmbo man following man. No thanks I cool with the Lord guiding me .

You can go and preach against His Birth or resurrection what ever the flavor of the Month may be.. but not I bro.. He takes care of me quite well so I will continue to allow Him to show me His ways n not turn to the crowd for answers..

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful"

Idk see He is all I got.. let me break it down a bit.. how can I with out any govt help with housing on SSDI who can't walk far who don't drive how am I in this world on a lil ova ,800 a month able to have my mortgage paid lot rent paid food electric water every month? I'm not saying it's never rough but the Lord allows His to rest in His peace..but in a world where cash is the dead king How does that even make sense bro? N ya trying to convince me to go away from the Lord guidance n to what? Believe what man has let his harden heart believe because they found some of Satan tid bits n it sent them in to a frizzy??..

Naw dude..

At one time I was like you n then the Lord showed me His ways..

Like I said the job of the world is to harden hearts bro n it just ain't got that power over me not with the Lord of the Living on my side..

See He is all I have so why would I turn from Him n go towards man?

I will keep praising Him and walking in Him like I've done since He called me back from the wilderness..

I sure hope one day you turn away from the masses of the people and just fall into the Arms of the Lord and rest in Him..

I presume most people just have a cash flow to survive not i I Have the Lord..

He lays me down in green pastures..it's all written n it is all true..

Seek the Lord while He can still be found

Immanuel bro!

Immanuel!

The kingdom is within..

I'll keep ya in prayer

Hope all's well!

(⁠〃ﾟ⁠3ﾟ⁠〃⁠)

 

[Gerbolski]

I think were some might have a hard time, is seeing, that God is not for mixture, and he calls things by what they are, and not what there are not.

It is all in the bible, in what God calls things, and that would be good to heed to.

And the resurrection and birth of Christ are awesome.

And it is true that the bible does not exactly say when Christ was born, but it does mention the courses of Abijah, which those specific courses only happen 2 times a year, which does not fit with December 25th.

And one seems to fit around the time of the feast of Tabernacles or the feast of trumpets.

And no we are no longer commanded to celebrate the old testament feast days, but if you do, but in a manner to just remember what they point to, and not as a commandment, than you cannot be judged for that either.

Col 2:16
(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

You cannot be judge for not observing, but neither for observing, but if do observe, you have to be careful that you do so, not as a commandment, and without of course the sacrifices, and just doing so, to what it points to, because if you are not careful, you can bring yourself back under the law, which would be an insult to what Christ done.

But if you are careful, doing things the right way, than good for you, you cannot be judge, and if you do not do so, than that is fine as well.

For myself I do not do so, but I have once with a friend via Pentecost, which was a good learning lesson.

The feast that God founded that represents the death of Christ is Passover, and the feast that God made that represents the resurrection is the feast of first fruits.

These feast have been made by God without mixture, with total truth.

They were not Christianized, they were always true.

Christ is our life, and we need to respect him in every way, no mixture, reverencing his name, and serving him in the way he wants to be served.

 

[BroTan]

I know what He tells me lol I talk to Him every day He leads me . It's not for me to convince you.. Lord says follow Him so I do..

Research? Lmbo man following man. No thanks I cool with the Lord guiding me .

You can go and preach against His Birth or resurrection what ever the flavor of the Month may be.. but not I bro.. He takes care of me quite well so I will continue to allow Him to show me His ways n not turn to the crowd for answers..

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful"

Idk see He is all I got.. let me break it down a bit.. how can I with out any govt help with housing on SSDI who can't walk far who don't drive how am I in this world on a lil ova ,800 a month able to have my mortgage paid lot rent paid food electric water every month? I'm not saying it's never rough but the Lord allows His to rest in His peace..but in a world where cash is the dead king How does that even make sense bro? N ya trying to convince me to go away from the Lord guidance n to what? Believe what man has let his harden heart believe because they found some of Satan tid bits n it sent them in to a frizzy??..

Naw dude..

At one time I was like you n then the Lord showed me His ways..

Like I said the job of the world is to harden hearts bro n it just ain't got that power over me not with the Lord of the Living on my side..

See He is all I have so why would I turn from Him n go towards man?

I will keep praising Him and walking in Him like I've done since He called me back from the wilderness..

I sure hope one day you turn away from the masses of the people and just fall into the Arms of the Lord and rest in Him..

I presume most people just have a cash flow to survive not i I Have the Lord..

He lays me down in green pastures..it's all written n it is all true..

Seek the Lord while He can still be found

Immanuel bro!

Immanuel!

The kingdom is within..

I'll keep ya in prayer

Hope all's well!

(⁠〃ﾟ⁠3ﾟ⁠〃⁠)

World Scope Encyclopedia (1960 vol.3) states, "Christmas, the festival observed by the Christian Church on the 25th day of December in commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ. No certain knowledge of the birthday of Jesus Christ exists and its observance was not established until some time after the organization of the first churches. The 25th day of December was advocated by Julius 1, Bishop of Rome from 337 to 352, as the most suitable time to commemorate the birth of Christ. The day was finally placed on December 25th, which made it possible for all nations to observe a festival of rejoicing that the shortest day of the year has passed. The end of December was an especially significant time in the northern hemisphere. Days were short; nights long. The sun was at its lowest point. This called for the celebration of special festivals of thanksgiving and encouragement to the waning sun. When at the winter solstice in late December, the days began to lengthen once again, there was great festivity lasting into the first part of January. The reason was that the declining sun---the light of the world--had been reborn and began to gain in strength. Moreover, the newly converted peoples found it convenient to get a kind of substitute for their original celebrations of the solstice ". The birth of Jesus the Christ was assigned the date of December 25th, because on this day, as the sun began its return to the northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra (the Persian's Sun God) celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun).

The history book a Pictorial History of the Italian People states, "Saint Gregory was repelled by Graeco-Roman civilization and, paradoxically, did more than anyone else to facilitate the absorption of pagan residues into Italian Christianity. Through that process of absorption, any paganism hostile to Christianity remaining in Italian rural communities faded away".

The simple fact is that, as more and more people from throughout the Western Roman Empire became converted to an increasingly popular Christianity, they brought many of their favorite customs with them. "The pagan [winter festivals of the] Saturnalia and Brumalia were too deeply entrenched in popular custom to be set aside by Christian influence... The pagan festival with its riot and merrymaking was so popular that Christians were glad of an excuse to continue its celebration with little change in spirit or in manner... Christians of Mesopotamia accused their western brethren of idolatry and sun-worship for adopting as Christian this pagan festival. Yet the festival rapidly gained acceptance and became at last so firmly entrenched that even the Protestant revolution of the sixteenth century was not able to dislodge it..." (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Volume III, article "Christmas.") You see this going on in churches today. Churches are constantly recruiting new members from other denominations and they often bring some aspect of their previous church to the new one. If you notice, many Christians today celebrate the Roman Catholic tradition of Lent. Historically, Lent, was not celebrated by Protestant churches.

 

[Twistie]

World Scope Encyclopedia (1960 vol.3) states, "Christmas, the festival observed by the Christian Church on the 25th day of December in commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ. No certain knowledge of the birthday of Jesus Christ exists and its observance was not established until some time after the organization of the first churches. The 25th day of December was advocated by Julius 1, Bishop of Rome from 337 to 352, as the most suitable time to commemorate the birth of Christ. The day was finally placed on December 25th, which made it possible for all nations to observe a festival of rejoicing that the shortest day of the year has passed. The end of December was an especially significant time in the northern hemisphere. Days were short; nights long. The sun was at its lowest point. This called for the celebration of special festivals of thanksgiving and encouragement to the waning sun. When at the winter solstice in late December, the days began to lengthen once again, there was great festivity lasting into the first part of January. The reason was that the declining sun---the light of the world--had been reborn and began to gain in strength. Moreover, the newly converted peoples found it convenient to get a kind of substitute for their original celebrations of the solstice ". The birth of Jesus the Christ was assigned the date of December 25th, because on this day, as the sun began its return to the northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra (the Persian's Sun God) celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun).

The history book a Pictorial History of the Italian People states, "Saint Gregory was repelled by Graeco-Roman civilization and, paradoxically, did more than anyone else to facilitate the absorption of pagan residues into Italian Christianity. Through that process of absorption, any paganism hostile to Christianity remaining in Italian rural communities faded away".

The simple fact is that, as more and more people from throughout the Western Roman Empire became converted to an increasingly popular Christianity, they brought many of their favorite customs with them. "The pagan [winter festivals of the] Saturnalia and Brumalia were too deeply entrenched in popular custom to be set aside by Christian influence... The pagan festival with its riot and merrymaking was so popular that Christians were glad of an excuse to continue its celebration with little change in spirit or in manner... Christians of Mesopotamia accused their western brethren of idolatry and sun-worship for adopting as Christian this pagan festival. Yet the festival rapidly gained acceptance and became at last so firmly entrenched that even the Protestant revolution of the sixteenth century was not able to dislodge it..." (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Volume III, article "Christmas.") You see this going on in churches today. Churches are constantly recruiting new members from other denominations and they often bring some aspect of their previous church to the new one. If you notice, many Christians today celebrate the Roman Catholic tradition of Lent. Historically, Lent, was not celebrated by Protestant churches.

Dude why do are ya so bent on trying to convince one not to follow the Lord to not take counsel with Him n to trust in man?

You do understand what you are doing don't ya?

Umm ya barking up the wrong tree tho frfr I will not turn to the masses..
I don't care if you wanna give the Lords days away.. me call me selfish lol I'm not giving not one day to Satan not a one he n you can kick n scream for me to give the Day the Lord has made n it won't happen ya could torture me if ya like n it still won't happen His kingdom is within me I know who I am in Him tho I have not a clue why He choose me..

But ya.. ya can try n scatter His but it won't happen His knows His voice His know that Spirit of Truth would never point them to man He will Always point to them to the Father see the difference between you n the Lord yet??

Seek the Lord while He is near and can be found..


Hope all's well!!

ミ⁠●⁠﹏⁠☉⁠ミ

 

[BroTan]

Dude why do are ya so bent on trying to convince one not to follow the Lord to not take counsel with Him n to trust in man?

You do understand what you are doing don't ya?

Umm ya barking up the wrong tree tho frfr I will not turn to the masses..
I don't care if you wanna give the Lords days away.. me call me selfish lol I'm not giving not one day to Satan not a one he n you can kick n scream for me to give the Day the Lord has made n it won't happen ya could torture me if ya like n it still won't happen His kingdom is within me I know who I am in Him tho I have not a clue why He choose me..

But ya.. ya can try n scatter His but it won't happen His knows His voice His know that Spirit of Truth would never point them to man He will Always point to them to the Father see the difference between you n the Lord yet??

Seek the Lord while He is near and can be found..


Hope all's well!!

ミ⁠●⁠﹏⁠☉⁠ミ

It's always good to have knowledge and understanding about where things come from so we will not be ignorant of the things that we do. Paul says in Colossians 2: 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Check your history, you'll find that the customs associated with Christmas were celebrated some 2000 years before Jesus.

 

[BroTan]

So exactly where did Christmas come from? World Scope Encyclopedia (1960 vol.3) states, "Christmas, the festival observed by the Christian Church on the 25th day of December in commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ. No certain knowledge of the birthday of Jesus Christ exists and its observance was not established until some time after the organization of the first churches. The 25th day of December was advocated by Julius 1, Bishop of Rome from 337 to 352, as the most suitable time to commemorate the birth of Christ. The day was finally placed on December 25th, which made it possible for all nations to observe a festival of rejoicing that the shortest day of the year has passed. Moreover, the newly converted peoples found it convenient to get a kind of substitute for their original celebrations of the solstice". The birth of Jesus the Christ was assigned the date of December 25th, because on this day, as the sun began its return to the northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun). The history book a Pictorial History of the Italian People states, "Saint Gregory was repelled by Graeco-Roman civilization and, paradoxically, did more than anyone else to facilitate the absorption of pagan residues into Italian Christianity. Through that process of absorption, any paganism hostile to Christianity remaining in Italian rural communities faded away". Check your history, you'll find that the customs associated with Christmas were celebrated some 2000 years before Jesus.

But if we got Christmas from the Roman Catholics, and they got it from paganism, where did the pagans get it? Where, when, and what was its real origin? It started and originated in the original Bablyhon of ancient Nimrod. Nimrod, grandson of Ham, son of Noah built the tower of Babel. Nimrod married his own mother, whose name is Semiramis. After Nimrod's, Semiramis claimed a full grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead tree stump, which symbolized the springing forth unto new life of the dead Nimrod. On each anniversary of his birth, she claimed Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts upon it. December 25th was the birthday of Nimrod. This is the real origin of the Christmas tree.

Through her scheming and designing, Semiramis became the Babylonia "Queen of Heaven," and Nimrod, under various names, became the "divine son of heaven." Through the generations, in this idolatrius worship, Nimrod also became the false Messiah, son of Baal the Sun-god. In this false Bablyhonish system, the "Mother and Child" (Semiramis and Nimrod reborn) became chief objects of worship. This worship of "Mother and Child" spread over the world. The names varied in different countries and languages. In Egypt it was Isis and Osiris. In Asia, Cybele and Deoius. In pagan Rome, Fortuna and Jupiterpuer. Even in Greece, China, Japan, Tibet is to be found the counterpart of the Madonna, long before the birth of Christ. The Lord God of Israel made reference to the worshiping and sacrificing to the "Queen of Heaven" in Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

 

[Twistie]

It's always good to have knowledge and understanding about where things come from so we will not be ignorant of the things that we do. Paul says in Colossians 2: 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Check your history, you'll find that the customs associated with Christmas were celebrated some 2000 years before Jesus.

So are you saying that man can inform me on what I need to do as to Worshipping the Lord over what the Lord tells me?

It's written about those they tried and scatter

Hope all's well
(⁠｡⁠♡⁠‿⁠♡⁠｡⁠)

 

[Brad Huber]

Christ.... mas. There is nothing pagan in the name. A celebration of the birth of Jesus. Also not pagan. Yes, we dont know the exact date of Jesus's birth and the early catholics decided to celebrate it on winter soltice which IS a pagan holiday. So why did they do this? It wasnt done to make the celebration of Jesus birth more pagan. Thats simply what you want to believe. They did it because people like to have celebrations, some drinking, and rejoicing over things good in life. It was done, per catholics, to give people something to celebrate instead of the pagan holiday and on the same day to draw more people away FROM the pagan celebrations. So tell me why you think this was evil?