If salvation is by faith alone, then are Satanists saved?

[Ophel]

i think thats what was already meant by "works done to be accepted"...

OK. My point is that works that are acceptable to God are not filthy rags. Such works He accepts are those prompted by Holy Spirit in us, who instills in us the nature of the works and empowers us to perform them.

 

[DHC]

Yes demons BELIVE that Jesus is the son of God

Hello W4Fishen.

Often I have seen statements on TJ similar to your statement below.

Yes demons BELIVE that Jesus is the son of God

Where in the Bible does it say that demons believe Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[Ophel]

James 2:19
You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God.a]">[a] Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror.

Matthew 8:29
They began screaming at him, “Why are you interfering with us, Son of God? Have you come here to torture us before God’s appointed time?”

 

[DHC]

James 2:19
You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God.a]">[a] Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror.

Matthew 8:29
They began screaming at him, “Why are you interfering with us, Son of God? Have you come here to torture us before God’s appointed time?”

Hello Ophel.

The first verse you posted (James 2:19) has nothing to do with demons believing Jesus is the Son of God.
This verse only states that the demons believe that 'there is one God'.

The second verse (Matthew 8:29) does not state that demons 'believe', these demons are directly addressing Jesus.
The demons don't need a belief in Jesus, they already know who Jesus is.

I need to know where in the Bible it talks about demons believing that Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[Ophel]

Hello Ophel.

The first verse you posted (James 2:19) has nothing to do with demons believing Jesus is the Son of God.
This verse only states that the demons believe that 'there is one God'.

The second verse (Matthew 8:29) does not state that demons 'believe', these demons are directly addressing Jesus.
The demons don't need a belief in Jesus, they already know who Jesus is.

I need to know where in the Bible it talks about demons believing that Jesus is the Son of God.

Both scriptures adequately present the fact that the devil himself and his demon minions all are aware of who Jesus Christ is. Matthew 8:29 is the one verse that proves that demons recognize Jesus as the Son of God. You may use any word to denote this recognition: "Believe" and "know" are equally appropriate.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Both scriptures adequately present the fact that the devil himself and his demon minions all are aware of who Jesus Christ is. Matthew 8:29 is the one verse that proves that demons recognize Jesus as the Son of God. You may use any word to denote this recognition: "Believe" and "know" are equally appropriate.

yup, without a doubt

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

OK. My point is that works that are acceptable to God are not filthy rags. Such works He accepts are those prompted by Holy Spirit in us, who instills in us the nature of the works and empowers us to perform them.

I agree,I meant works done in effort to build our own foundation are as filthy rags.
Works done on the foundation that is Jesus Christ are those that you are referring to and some are obviously more lasting and substantial.
My original point is that a Satanist would have to understand that foundation and enter into that finished work where Satan is finished..
Nobody is getting away with anything those that abuse grace will suffer loss.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Hello Ophel.

The first verse you posted (James 2:19) has nothing to do with demons believing Jesus is the Son of God.
This verse only states that the demons believe that 'there is one God'.

The second verse (Matthew 8:29) does not state that demons 'believe', these demons are directly addressing Jesus.
The demons don't need a belief in Jesus, they already know who Jesus is.

I need to know where in the Bible it talks about demons believing that Jesus is the Son of God.

DHC,
What is your hang up with the word belive or belief ? If you know something is true then you blieve it is true.
You are placing way to much emphasis on the word believe. Like I have said many times the word believe is used in many different situations and different formats. Don't allow this to hang you up.

 

[DHC]

Both scriptures adequately present the fact that the devil himself and his demon minions all are aware of who Jesus Christ is. Matthew 8:29 is the one verse that proves that demons recognize Jesus as the Son of God. You may use any word to denote this recognition: "Believe" and "know" are equally appropriate.

Hello Ophel.

You made the following statement.

Both scriptures adequately present the fact that the devil himself and his demon minions all are
aware of who Jesus Christ is. Matthew 8:29 is the one verse that proves that demons recognize Jesus as
the Son of God. You may use any word to denote this recognition: "Believe" and "know" are equally
appropriate.

To believe in some entity usually does not require any proof, the proof would consist of an observation.

For example Ophel, you can believe that the earth is flat if you like, because a belief does not carry any
observation certainty.

It is entirely another matter to say that you know something is true, because the word know usually
is associated with an observation. Thus Ophel, if someone said they believed the world was flat, we
know better, because from observations of the earth's shape, we know it has a circular shape.

Thus a demon does not need a revelation from God relating to the identity of the Christ. A demon
knows exactly who Jesus Christ is, the demon has observed the Christ directly. Demons were formerly angels
in heaven, they know the Christ through observation.

Humanity on the other hand does need to receive a revelation from God relating to the identity of the Christ!

Humanity may only ever believe in Jesus, because no observation of the Christ is possible. Demons know
Jesus because they can observe Him, and humans believe in Jesus because we cannot see Him, that is the
difference.

To then say that 'demons believe in Jesus Christ' is erroneous, demons rather know the identity of the Christ.

Luke 4:34
Let us alone! What business do we have with each other, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us?
I know who You are the Holy One of God!

Demons know who Jesus is with certainty, we believe in Jesus, but cannot know Jesus from an observational
standpoint.

I most strongly protest that demons do not have a belief in Jesus, rather they know Jesus.

 

[Ophel]

Hello Ophel.

You made the following statement.



To believe in some entity usually does not require any proof, the proof would consist of an observation.

For example Ophel, you can believe that the earth is flat if you like, because a belief does not carry any
observation certainty.

It is entirely another matter to say that you know something is true, because the word know usually
is associated with an observation. Thus Ophel, if someone said they believed the world was flat, we
know better, because from observations of the earth's shape, we know it has a circular shape.

Thus a demon does not need a revelation from God relating to the identity of the Christ. A demon
knows exactly who Jesus Christ is, the demon has observed the Christ directly. Demons were formerly angels
in heaven, they know the Christ through observation.

Humanity on the other hand does need to receive a revelation from God relating to the identity of the Christ!

Humanity may only ever believe in Jesus, because no observation of the Christ is possible. Demons know
Jesus because they can observe Him, and humans believe in Jesus because we cannot see Him, that is the
difference.

To then say that 'demons believe in Jesus Christ' is erroneous, demons rather know the identity of the Christ.

Luke 4:34
Let us alone! What business do we have with each other, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us?
I know who You are the Holy One of God!

Demons know who Jesus is with certainty, we believe in Jesus, but cannot know Jesus from an observational
standpoint.

I most strongly protest that demons do not have a belief in Jesus, rather they know Jesus.

I do not believe I have ever made an assertion that "demons believe in Jesus Christ". I have only ever said that they know who He is.

Methinks you are simply tilting at windmills.

 

[DHC]

I do not believe I have ever made an assertion that "demons believe in Jesus Christ". I have only ever said that they know who He is.

Methinks you are simply tilting at windmills.

Hello Ophel.

You said the following in an earlier post.

that proves that demons recognize Jesus as the Son of God. You may use any word to denote this recognition: "Believe"

 

[Ophel]

Hello Ophel.

You said the following in an earlier post.

So what? Believing IN something and believing that something is true are two concepts. Satan and his demons all know and believe who Jesus is. Please make an argument for something real, if that is your desire.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

@DHC Greetings,

I beieve this is my reply...........So what? Believing IN something and believing that something is true are two concepts. Satan and his demons all know and believe who Jesus is.Please make an argument for something real, if that is your desire.

And again you are doing the same old thing...............
Believe is an action word.............This action word called believe can be used in different situations or formats or in different context.
Faith is an action word..........Faith always has to be accompanied by some kind of action. Believe is an action.

Now then the devil and demons know or they do believe this to be true that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Jesus Kicked their butts brother and took back the keys of death...They know who he is and they believe he is who He is...

Now then we believe In Jesus too. Now then Romans 10:13 says ANYONE who calls on the name of Jesus will be saved.
We beleive this to be true. We beleive with or by FAITH that Jesus is the Christ and our Savior and we believe In Him to come into our hearts....This is a right for us HUMAN CREATIONS of God. NO OTHER BEING HAS THIS RIGHT.....

I believe that candy can rot teeth........... I do not believe with Faith for I enjoy candy now and again and I am NOT believing for my teeth to rot. Now I believe God hears my prayers and His answers are always yes and amen when we pray according to His will.
So I pray WITH FAITH BELIEVING this to be true and that I shall see my answer.

I believe when I turn the light switch on that the lights will come on. I believe when I sity in the chair it will hold
me and I wont get hurt. This is the same kind of believing that the demons have. They know it is true. It stops there for beyoond that they desire to AVOID GOD AND ANY BELIEVER WHO OPERATES IN THE SPIRIT OF GOD...Why ? because they believe and know it can cost them and hurt them dearly..............

Now DHC, do you simply believe this or not ?
Blessings
Jim

 

[DHC]

I believe when I turn the light switch on that the lights will come on.

Hello W4Fishin.

Thanks for the reply W4Fishin, we have arrived at our destination, that is, with some prodding along the way.

We must all abide by exactly the same definitions for each and every word that we use when communicating with
each other. If we do not use the same dictionary definition for each and every word, then chaos rules.

The two words 'believe' and 'know' have different dictionary definitions. When we use each of these two words in
communicating with each other, we use the strict dictionary definition at all times.

If your definition of 'believe' is different to my definition, then we are not on the same page.

If you do not use the dictionary definition, then I simply will not understand your posts.

Here is a good example of how a different definition of words will alter the meaning of a sentence.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I see the definition of 'free gift' as the dictionary defines 'free' and 'gift'.

'free' means, able to act or to do as one wishes; not under the control of another, Oxford Dictionary.

'gift' means, a thing given willingly to someone without any payment required, Oxford Dictionary.

Together this means that our salvation in Jesus Christ is purely given to us as a gift. No action or
payment by us is required to acheive this salvation.

Which directly means of course, that there is nothing we can contribute to the act of our salvation!

Our salvation is entirely a result of just believing in the death and resurrection of the Christ.

If you disagree with me about this, then you are using another source for the definitions of these words.

I believe when I turn the light switch on that the lights will come on.

If you have never observed a light being turned on at the flick of a switch, then that is a BELIEF.

If you have observed a light being turned on, then you KNOW the light will come on.

Different words with different definitions.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Hello W4Fishin.

Thanks for the reply W4Fishin, we have arrived at our destination, that is, with some prodding along the way.

We must all abide by exactly the same definitions for each and every word that we use when communicating with
each other. If we do not use the same dictionary definition for each and every word, then chaos rules.

The two words 'believe' and 'know' have different dictionary definitions. When we use each of these two words in
communicating with each other, we use the strict dictionary definition at all times.

If your definition of 'believe' is different to my definition, then we are not on the same page.

If you do not use the dictionary definition, then I simply will not understand your posts.

Here is a good example of how a different definition of words will alter the meaning of a sentence.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I see the definition of 'free gift' as the dictionary defines 'free' and 'gift'.

'free' means, able to act or to do as one wishes; not under the control of another, Oxford Dictionary.

'gift' means, a thing given willingly to someone without any payment required, Oxford Dictionary.

Together this means that our salvation in Jesus Christ is purely given to us as a gift. No action or
payment by us is required to acheive this salvation.

Which directly means of course, that there is nothing we can contribute to the act of our salvation!

Our salvation is entirely a result of just believing in the death and resurrection of the Christ.

If you disagree with me about this, then you are using another source for the definitions of these words.



If you have never observed a light being turned on at the flick of a switch, then that is a BELIEF.

If you have observed a light being turned on, then you KNOW the light will come on.

Different words with different definitions.

Yes salvation is a free gift...... We do beleive in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ but that alone wont get you save..
YOU MUST speak and ask..............Christ into your life.

Just to make things interseting...lol.....I believe the light will come on. I have belief or belief is the action to my believing.
Blessings Bother and have a great night

 

[Christ4Ever]

Hello @DHC!

If you have never observed a light being turned on at the flick of a switch, then that is a BELIEF.

If you have observed a light being turned on, then you KNOW the light will come on.

So keeping with the above statements. One can say that the Apostles & Disciples who saw Jesus after the resurrection had the knowledge by observation necessary in order to believe and is why we are blessed for believing without this knowledge. As it was said by Jesus to Timothy in John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.

Thanks for sharing. It has provided me a new perspective and enlightened me to the difference between faith given belief and the original knowledge driven belief.
YBIC
C4E

 

[Travis]

Just a small observation, and it probably isn't incredibly relevant, but here we go anyway.

2 Corinthians 5
6 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.​

The devil and his angels know that God is real because they remember being created, being with their master in all his glory and splendor. They remember being cast out of heaven by him. They know him by a complete of perfect knowledge and experience of exactly who he is. They believe that he exists, and that he is sovereign because they have experienced this first hand in most every way.

I wasn't there when any of this happened. I'm not privy to that kind of knowledge or experience. My belief in God, and in his Son, Jesus Christ, is of a different sort. I believe because the Lord has done a work in me to bring such about. While I am in this flesh, I walk by this kind of faith, and not by sight.

I think there is a distinction here?

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Christ4Ever]

The devil and his angels know that God is real because they remember being created

This is one part that I heard an interesting perspective on and why evolution came into being. Not that it's really part of the discussion, but the above quote reminded me of this and I hope those reading this thread don't mind me sharing. I don't have the book in front of me, so am going by memory only (yikes).

Dr. Henry Morris makes mention that if the initial persception of Lucifer (If the initial created being.) was of coming out of the "waters" mentioned in [Gen 1:2 KJV] 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Then it would not be farfetched for him to conclude in pride that he, Lucifer, was preceded by God from said waters and not His created being. For me this might have been attractive to his vanity and also be useful as a tool by which he could make a basis for deceiving mankind (evolution). Confirming his veiw of self, with the added benefit of moving God's creations from belief in a Creator towards an eternal universal chance.

Just a thought. Now I can let you all get back to the thread topic...................... :thumbsup: