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Member
We all taught that Lucifer angel was thrown into hell because of his rebellion (egoistic) nature against god.
My question is at that moment there were god and the fellow Angels and we know God has vengeance(Ezekiel 25:17) and God has (2 chronicles 32:26) wrath. And so on. But where this egoistic nature comes when there is no such thing in the creation.Pardon me if I am not understandable.(my language).If at all it existed before then it has to be from the God . In that case Lucifer should not be thrown away for a punishment.
 
Loyal
The combination of free will and the knowledge of good and evil. They are what allows all sin to grow and mature. God did not create sin, He merely created the things that led to it.
 
Member
What is free will(angels only follow order and they are created to do so. There is no free will until God created Adam to choose a fruit not to eat or to eat but angels did not have one such kind. So how come they dis obey when there is no such thing existed . If there is a coin with head and tail to choose then there would be a chance of getting either one. But, here they(angels) do not have options. I think you got my point this time. Think deep. I am talking about the scenario which existed before the existence of this universe. So be thinful with knowledge that come from above . I am not rejecting your answer. I am in search of answer for my question that has to be unquestionable after it is answered. Sorry, but help me to find one. Thank you.
 
Loyal
What is free will(angels only follow order and they are created to do so. There is no free will until God created Adam to choose a fruit not to eat or to eat but angels did not have one such kind. So how come they dis obey when there is no such thing existed . If there is a coin with head and tail to choose then there would be a chance of getting either one. But, here they(angels) do not have options. I think you got my point this time. Think deep. I am talking about the scenario which existed before the existence of this universe. So be thinful with knowledge that come from above . I am not rejecting your answer. I am in search of answer for my question that has to be unquestionable after it is answered. Sorry, but help me to find one. Thank you.
This is not a game. With man's reason trying to find fault with God in some way. You err in thinking angels had no will. If they had no will, there would not be fallen angels. How is it you state something about angels as definitive when you are unable to even back up your own claim which is what leads you to further error?
 
Member
Sorry to make you feel hurt and throwing your words at me like this. Sorry for my foolishness. I am not saying angels are definitive. I don't know anything about them either. They are not like us to go on their own will. That's the only thing I am pointing right now. They are not like us. That don't have choices. There is no evil in there. Thanks for your time and sorry to hurt your feelings. Thank you again.
 
Member
You are completely mis guided me. I am not talking about fallen angels or about God. I am talking about a feeling (ego) which was not existed. If you feel sweetness with your tongue in pure lemon?
 
Member
I am not finding god's fault. I know he never did wrong things at all.God has stopped Isaac's death on mountain where as he never said stop in the times of Jephthah's daughter sacrifice in judges 11.These two are in God's will. According to old testament.
 
Loyal
I am not hurt, I simply state the truth. Angels are different than us, but you dont have enough verifiable info on them to make your conclusions.
 
Member
I am not hurt, I simply state the truth. Angels are different than us, but you dont have enough verifiable info on them to make your conclusions.
Yes, I know very less or nothing about angels. Can you refer me in the Bible where angels turned against God and for what reason they did so. Not talking about Daniel book in old testament. Nor about fallen angels. If you have only these two incidents then tell me why they do so. So that I can learn and understand something new. Thank you.
 
Loyal
Ezek 28:13; You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The ruby, the topaz and the diamond;
The beryl, the onyx and the jasper;
The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald;
And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets,
Was in you.
On the day that you were created
They were prepared.
Ezek 28:14; You were the anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:15; You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Ezek 28:16; By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, you covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.

A cherub is an angel.

Isa 14:12; How you have fallen from heaven,
You star of the morning (Lucifer) , son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the earth,
You who defeated the nations!
Isa 14:13; But you said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God,
And I will sit on the mount of assembly
In the recesses of the north.
Isa 14:14; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
Isa 14:15; Nevertheless you will be brought down to Sheol,
To the recesses of the pit.

Morning Star (Lucifer) is a title for Satan.

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling place, these He has kept in eternal restraints under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these angels indulged in sexual perversion and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Some Angels indulged in illicit sex. (Many believe this is where the Giants came from - in Genesis 6)

Luke 10:18; And He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

Many believe this is in reference to Ezekiel 28:16;
 
Loyal
Rev 12:7; And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
Rev 12:8; and they did not prevail, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
Rev 12:9; And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
Rev 12:10; Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers and sisters has been thrown down, the one who accuses them before our God day and night.

Verse 7 above says Satan and "his angels" waged war against Michael and the forces of heaven. Some of these are thought to be the same angels in Jude 1:6-7; and Genesis 6:2-4; (sons of God)

Rev 12:3; Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven crowns.
Rev 12:4; And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and hurled them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her Child.

It's a bit obscure, but many believe when the dragon took a third of the stars from heaven, it means he took a third of the angels with him.
 
Member
Thank you sir. You spend very valuable time for me at least for typing. Thank you so much. Yes, I understood that God created creatures with possibility of making sin(freewill as you say). And he does not make sinners or sin. That's the only fitted material I found from you and another doctrine. Trust me, we are not taught about what happened at the time fallen angels incident through Bible. So we never know what happens there. I am waiting for god's voice(if it is in heaven? yes) to confirm our fitted theory or telling me the truth. I am sorry to waste your time. But, I like your patience. Thank you. My name is Titus.
 
Member
Rev 12:7; And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
Rev 12:8; and they did not prevail, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
Rev 12:9; And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
Rev 12:10; Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers and sisters has been thrown down, the one who accuses them before our God day and night.

Verse 7 above says Satan and "his angels" waged war against Michael and the forces of heaven. Some of these are thought to be the same angels in Jude 1:6-7; and Genesis 6:2-4; (sons of God)

Rev 12:3; Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven crowns.
Rev 12:4; And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and hurled them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her Child.

It's a bit obscure, but many believe when the dragon took a third of the stars from heaven, it means he took a third of the angels with him.
You are elaborating all the issues happened with the name angels from the Bible. Which is good. But, I am asking the real reason behind the angels rebellion nature and it's origin. Thank you
 
Member
Thank you sir. You spend very valuable time for me at least for typing. Thank you so much. Yes, I understood that God created creatures with possibility of making sin(freewill as you say). And he does not make sinners or sin. That's the only fitted material I found from you and another doctrine. Trust me, we are not taught about what happened at the time fallen angels incident through Bible. So we never know what happens there. I am waiting for god's voice(if it is in heaven? yes) to confirm our fitted theory or telling me the truth. I am sorry to waste your time. But, I like your patience. Thank you. My name is Titus.
To Brad Huber
 
Loyal
It is never a waste of time to share the truth Titus, and thats a good name. I pray you carry it well.
 
Member
It is never a waste of time to share the truth Titus, and thats a good name. I pray you carry it well.
I hope so. But, did I really make you having wrong impression on me? It resembles in your replies. Trust me I am a good guy with good testimony and I have god's will upon me to fulfill. Anyway thank you so much sir .It is indeed a good conversation.pray for my job(jobless since graduated any small job will help my family a lot) that helps me a lot. Thank you.
 
Member
Hello @Titus05 ...

I commend you in how you are looking for answers in God's word. I can't add any more to your question about the angels... for what has been said already is enough so there is no need for me to add any more. I just want to encourage you not to be discouraged and to continue to dig deeply in His Word.

Proverbs 25: 2 (TPT)....
God conceals the revelation of His word in the hiding place of His glory.
But the honor of kings is revealed by how they thoroughly search out the deeper meaning of all that God says.

But remember what is said in Isaiah 55:8-9 (NASB)....
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.

We may get things right and we may get things wrong, but what really delights the Father's heart is that we continue to look to and for Him in every situation. "Usually our perspectives aren't the same. The Master of understanding wants us to take confidence in His plans even when we aren't exactly sure what they are. When we allow His love to unlock the cages of our thoughts, we step outside of our minds and into a place of freedom that only comes from trusting Him." (quote from Choose Freedom by Brian Simmons / The Vision)

I would like to wish you all the best in your journey with the Lord and may He bless you in every endeavour. Will be praying for you.

Blessings.
 
Member
Hello @Titus05 ...

I commend you in how you are looking for answers in God's word. I can't add any more to your question about the angels... for what has been said already is enough so there is no need for me to add any more. I just want to encourage you not to be discouraged and to continue to dig deeply in His Word.

Proverbs 25: 2 (TPT)....
God conceals the revelation of His word in the hiding place of His glory.
But the honor of kings is revealed by how they thoroughly search out the deeper meaning of all that God says.

But remember what is said in Isaiah 55:8-9 (NASB)....
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.

We may get things right and we may get things wrong, but what really delights the Father's heart is that we continue to look to and for Him in every situation. "Usually our perspectives aren't the same. The Master of understanding wants us to take confidence in His plans even when we aren't exactly sure what they are. When we allow His love to unlock the cages of our thoughts, we step outside of our minds and into a place of freedom that only comes from trusting Him." (quote from Choose Freedom by Brian Simmons / The Vision)

I would like to wish you all the best in your journey with the Lord and may He bless you in every endeavour. Will be praying for you.

Blessings.
Thanks for your concern and guidance . Thank you so much. Pray for my job.
 

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