How to

[falconbrother]

How do you walk in God's perfection?

 

[amadeus2]

Jesus as a 12 year-old boywas perfect as Job was perfect in the first chapter, first verse, but Jesus was incomplete as Job was incomplete.

A natural baby born with all of its parts in place and perfectly formed can correctly be spoken of as "perfect", but even as we should go from "faith" to "faith" in the process of growth, so should also go from perfection to perfection.

The natural baby was perfect in what he had when he emerged from his mother, but he had a lot of growing to do. The baby's selfishness was perfect and necessary to his own survival, but the selfishness must go away as he matures. Have any of us ever known a very selfish adult?Certainly, but we would probably wish that we did not.

Job was perfect in the moment of first chapter first verse, but like the baby there were more experiences ahead of him, through which he mustpass successfully in order to grow even closer to God.

Jesus was perfect in all of his experiences when he was 12 years old discussing things with the wise men in the natural temple inJerusalem, but...

"And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man."

The body of the 12 year old was immature, incomplete. The experience of the boy was not yet the experience of the man.

The obedience required of a child toward his natural parents was incomplete so he returned to subject himself to them, until he had attained his natural maturity.

The temptations of the boy were not yet the temptations of the man. All of his temptations up to the age of 12 had already been overcome,but he had not yet been subjected to the temptations of a fully grown man.Before the end of his natural life, he would have been subjected to them all and have overcome them all. Then Jesus would be complete!

The writer could not have written the following words about a 12 year-old boy, who had not yet experienced the temptations of an adult man with corruptible flesh.

"For we have not an high priest which cannot betouched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted likeas we are, yet without sin."

And then...

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer;I have overcome the world."

Each of us must also "overcome the world". The world is that posed to us in the following words: I John "For all that isin the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride oflife, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever."

All of the world of lust and pride will be gone eventually, but we, if we endure, and if we have overcome, and if we haveallowed God to build something incorruptible in us, will never die!

When we have completed our course, as Jesus completed His course, will there be anything that will be left to live forever?

 

[DiscipleDave]

How do you walk in God's perfection?

Simple: When you Love Everyone

^i^

 

[Jaareshiah]

How do you walk in God's perfection?

Jesus said to those who are to be his genuine disciples: "You heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you; that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? You must accordingly be perfect ("perfect", Greek teleios, meaning "complete, such as in growth, mental and moral character", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, G5046) as your heavenly Father is perfect."(Matt 5:43-48)

To "be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect", requires what ? Jesus said a true Christian must ' love his enemies', praying for these ones, in order to prove that he is truly following in Jesus "footsteps".(1 Pet 2:21) Thus, anyone who takes up arms against other nations (considered their "enemy"), such as in joining the military of any nation, have these adhered to Jesus words ?

Jesus further put it on a more personal level, saying that "if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing ?" or as Luke wrote of Jesus words that "if you love those loving you, of what credit is it to you ? "(Luke 6:32) What was Jesus saying that defines a true Christian concerning love and generosity ?

He showed that merely to “love those loving you” constituted an incomplete, defective love; hence his followers should perfect their love or bring it to full measure by loving their enemies also, thereby following God’s example. Can one who calls himself a Christian go to war and yet follow these words ? No.

In another account, a young ruler asked Jesus: "Good Teacher, by doing what shall I inherit everlasting life ?"(Luke 18:18) Jesus then proceeded to note several commandments of the Mosaic Law, with the young ruler saying that he had kept these. Jesus now says: "If you want to be perfect (Greek teleios, meaning "complete, such as in growth, mental and moral character", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, G5046), go sell your belongings and give to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven, and come be my follower.”(Matt 19:21)

The young man who questioned Jesus on the way to gain everlasting life was shown that his worship, which already included obedience to the Law’s commandments, was still lacking in vital points. If he ‘wanted to be perfect’ he must bring his worship to full development (Isa 18:5) by fulfilling these aspects.

In the illustration of the "sower", Jesus said that "which fell among the thorns, these are the ones that have heard, but, by being carried away by anxieties and riches and pleasures of this life, they are completely choked and bring nothing to perfection ("perfection", Greek telesphorousin, meaning "to be a bearer to completion (maturity)", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, G5052)"(Luke 8:14)

Thence, for an individual to be "perfect" in our Creator, Jehovah God's eyes, he must show genuine love unlike the vast majority who call themselves "Christian", and must "perfect" his "form of worship" (Greek threskeia, G2356, James 1:27) that adheres to Jehovah God's measurements of what pleases him, not what the churches have stipulated, which have strayed far from what is right in his eyes.

 

[Strypes]

Jesus said to those who are to be his genuine disciples: "You heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you; that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? You must accordingly be perfect ("perfect", Greek teleios, meaning "complete, such as in growth, mental and moral character", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, G5046) as your heavenly Father is perfect."(Matt 5:43-48)

To "be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect", requires what ? Jesus said a true Christian must ' love his enemies', praying for these ones, in order to prove that he is truly following in Jesus "footsteps".(1 Pet 2:21) Thus, anyone who takes up arms against other nations (considered their "enemy"), such as in joining the military of any nation, have these adhered to Jesus words ?

Jesus further put it on a more personal level, saying that "if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing ?" or as Luke wrote of Jesus words that "if you love those loving you, of what credit is it to you ? "(Luke 6:32) What was Jesus saying that defines a true Christian concerning love and generosity ?

He showed that merely to “love those loving you” constituted an incomplete, defective love; hence his followers should perfect their love or bring it to full measure by loving their enemies also, thereby following God’s example. Can one who calls himself a Christian go to war and yet follow these words ? No.

In another account, a young ruler asked Jesus: "Good Teacher, by doing what shall I inherit everlasting life ?"(Luke 18:18) Jesus then proceeded to note several commandments of the Mosaic Law, with the young ruler saying that he had kept these. Jesus now says: "If you want to be perfect (Greek teleios, meaning "complete, such as in growth, mental and moral character", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, G5046), go sell your belongings and give to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven, and come be my follower.”(Matt 19:21)

The young man who questioned Jesus on the way to gain everlasting life was shown that his worship, which already included obedience to the Law’s commandments, was still lacking in vital points. If he ‘wanted to be perfect’ he must bring his worship to full development (Isa 18:5) by fulfilling these aspects.

In the illustration of the "sower", Jesus said that "which fell among the thorns, these are the ones that have heard, but, by being carried away by anxieties and riches and pleasures of this life, they are completely choked and bring nothing to perfection ("perfection", Greek telesphorousin, meaning "to be a bearer to completion (maturity)", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, G5052)"(Luke 8:14)

Thence, for an individual to be "perfect" in our Creator, Jehovah God's eyes, he must show genuine love unlike the vast majority who call themselves "Christian", and must "perfect" his "form of worship" (Greek threskeia, G2356, James 1:27) that adheres to Jehovah God's measurements of what pleases him, not what the churches have stipulated, which have strayed far from what is right in his eyes.

Jaareshiah,
You highlighted the word "prove" in your New World Translation quote of Matthew 5:43-48.

The Bible translation that Talk Jesus uses (when you click on the verse reference) translates the passage...

"43 "You have heard that it was said, y 'You shall love your neighbor 1 z and hate your enemy.' 44 2 "But I say to you, a love your enemies, bless those who curse you, b do good to those who hate you, and pray c for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 "that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for d He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 e "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 "And if you greet your 3 brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the 4 tax collectors do so? 48 f "Therefore you shall be perfect, just g as your Father in heaven is perfect."

The difference between "be" and "prove" are dramatically different. We are sons (and daughters) of God because of Jesus. The New World translation that you have been quoting from was deliberately altered to support Watchtower Doctrine.. Ie .. prove.

You have to "prove" to the elders and others in your organization that you are worthy.. It is to gain the approval of men, not God.

 

[Strypes]

Note to folks here at Talk Jesus:

Jaareshiah's post is full of Watchtower doctrine, from the works based salvation to their cowardly refusal to support our military who fight for the freedoms that we and the Jehovah's Witnesses enjoy.

Please realize when you are reading his post that a little bit of truth can be twisted into a great big lie.

Additionally, in his post he insults us. Most wont even notice it as he disguises it in "righteous indignation" ..

The Jehovah's Witnesses consider all of us born again Christians (methodist baptist, lutherans etc) to be in league with Satan.

Back to the topic:

It is very simple, Love God above all and Love each other.

 

[Jaareshiah]

Jaareshiah,
You highlighted the word "prove" in your New World Translation quote of Matthew 5:43-48.

The Bible translation that Talk Jesus uses (when you click on the verse reference) translates the passage...

"43 "You have heard that it was said, y 'You shall love your neighbor 1 z and hate your enemy.' 44 2 "But I say to you, a love your enemies, bless those who curse you, b do good to those who hate you, and pray c for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 "that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for d He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 e "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 "And if you greet your 3 brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the 4 tax collectors do so? 48 f "Therefore you shall be perfect, just g as your Father in heaven is perfect."

The difference between "be" and "prove" are dramatically different. We are sons (and daughters) of God because of Jesus. The New World translation that you have been quoting from was deliberately altered to support Watchtower Doctrine.. Ie .. prove.

You have to "prove" to the elders and others in your organization that you are worthy.. It is to gain the approval of men, not God.

The New World Translation gives serious consideration to preserving verb forms so as to increase accurate understanding. For example, in Genesis 22:18 we read: “By means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves.” The phrase “will certainly bless themselves, is the Hebrew verb in the reflexive, or hith·pa·‘el´ form.

Most Bible translations render these words in a way similar to the King James Version, which says: “In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.” Incorrectly, such renderings convey the idea that Jehovah God's blessing will come automatically, whereas the Hebrew form here says that the people of the nations must “bless themselves.” They must make the effort to meet Jehovah’s requirements in order to receive his blessings through faith in the Messianic Seed, Jesus Christ.

Of the word "prove" at Matthew 5:45, is the Greek word genesthe (G1096) and has the same lemma or base as the Greek word, ginesthe (G1096), that Luke used at Luke 6:36, and which parallels Matthew 5:45. Both words have as its base word ginomai (meaning "to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e. [reflexively] to become [come into being], used with great latitude", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible).

Because the Greek word genesthe is in the subjunctive aorist mood (aorist is a "verb tense used to express a past action in an unqualified way", Microsoft Encarta Dictionary), and is in the reflexive tense (and interrogative pronoun (PI), whereby something has to be proved by interrogation) with the use of such words as "yourselves"or "you" ("thereby indicating an action that the subject does to or for itself ", Microsoft Encarta Dictionary) at Matthew 5:45, Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (pg 116) says that this can mean "contextually, to show one's self, prove one's self ", (reflexive or "Grammar: denoting self-directed action", Microsoft Encarta Dictionary)

The lemma or base word ginomai means basically "to become" and is parallel to the Hebrew word hawah, that means "to become" (at Genesis 12:2 and is within God's name of Jehovah or Yehwah [at Gen 2:4], thereby giving the meaning of "He Causes to Become" or in the reflexive "I Shall Prove to Be" at Exodus 3:14). The King James Bible ignores the Hebrew word hawah.

Thus, at Matthew 5:44, 45, Jesus says: "However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you; that you may prove yourselves (Greek genesthe, requiring "self-directed action" and an action required by person of showing Christ-like love) sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous", at Matthew 10:16, whereby Jesus says that "I am sending you (his disciples) forth as sheep amidst wolves, therefore prove yourselves ("prove yourselves", Greek ginesthe ) cautious as serpents but innocent as doves", and at Luke 13:2, in which Jesus says: "Do you imagine that these Gal·i·le´ans were proved (Greek egenonto, base word ginomai, pointing toward "Galileans") worse sinners than all other Gal·i·le´ans because they have suffered these things ? "

 

[Strypes]

*pardon the interruption*

"The New World Translation gives serious consideration to preserving verb forms so as to increase accurate understanding."~Jaareshiah

The opposite of that is true.

The New World Translation (Watchtower Bible) is the most befuddled translation I have ever read. If there is a more difficult way of saying something.. that is what they went with.



Back to topic...

 

[Jaareshiah]

*pardon the interruption*



The opposite of that is true.

The New World Translation (Watchtower Bible) is the most befuddled translation I have ever read. If there is a more difficult way of saying something.. that is what they went with.



Back to topic...

You made a blank statement, now prove it by solid evidence.

 

[Chad]

You made a blank statement, now prove it by solid evidence.

http://www.talkjesus.com/world-religions-cults/43116-new-world-translation.html

Read the other threads in that forum category as well.

 

[Strypes]

The New World Translation (Watchtower Bible) is the most befuddled translation I have ever read. If there is a more difficult way of saying something.. that is what they went with.

You made a blank statement, now prove it by solid evidence.

http://www.talkjesus.com/world-religions-cults/43116-new-world-translation.html

Read the other threads in that forum category as well.

Thank you Chad.



Jaareshiah,

I would highly recommend researching the origins of the NWT. You will need to take off your JW blinders and resist the urge to depend on your indoctrination to seek TRUTH.

Truth is what matters, right?