How Do You Believe in the Rapture & Is There a Partial Rapture?

[GodB4Us]

If Christ isn't them, and they aren't in Christ, are they saved? Notice I didn;t ask if they are a believer. Even the demons believe.
Even the people in Matt 7:21-23; believe. But do these people abide in Christ?

Christ still abides in former believers left behind even though He will deny them for denying Him.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Same goes for any saved believer found in works of iniquity;

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Paul gives an example of a former believer in his day but they and all saved believers in iniquity are called to depart from them so they can be received as vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So who are the vessels of wood and earth ... the so called vessels unto dishonor that are in His House still? The ones that did not depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom had come for why they are called the vessels unto dishonor.

Is there any verse in the Bible, that says there will be two separate raptures? For that matter is there any verse that says
there will be a "pre-trib" rapture anywhere? I can give at least two that say the rapture will be after the tribulation.
And at least half a dozen more to support this.

Well... judgment must fall on the House of God first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 KJV ) for why there are many saints left behind to die Revelation 2:18-25 KJV when that fire comes Luke 12:40-49 KJV on a third of the earth Revelation 8:7 KJV ( western hemisphere ) and the rest to be killed by the beast by sword & hunger since they will not take the mark to buy & sell in order to survive in the coming New World Order in the other half of the world, the 2/3rds parts of the earth..

Then there is that special rapture of the two witnesses ( Enoch & Elijah I'm guessing ) halfway through the great tribulation for after they are killed, and resurrected, they are called up. Revelation 11:1-13 KJV

So discernment and wisdom has to come from the Lord to see the truth in His words because not everything is cut & dry as we all are led to believe regarding future events, but there is no mistaking the call to be ready at all times and so if any saved believer are living in sin, thinking they will repent tomorrow, then they best repent now with His help because the Bridegroom can come at any moment, not to mention how death can strike without permission or advance notice.

 

[GodB4Us]

Matt 24:44; "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
Luke 12:40; "You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect."
Matt 24:42; "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Matt 24:43; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Matt 25:13; "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
Mark 13:35; "Therefore, be on the alert—for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning—
Mark 13:37; "What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert!'"
1Cor 16:13; Be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
Eph 6:18; With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,
1Thes 5:6; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.

Now often, these verses get turned into a pre-trib/post-trib debate... but no matter when the rapture is... why do Jesus and Paul keep telling us over and over again to be ready, be alert, be sober...
What will happen if you aren't awake, ready, sober?

Because it can happen at any moment now. Every believer that thinks it will happen at the end of the great tribulation when He said no man can know the day nor the hour and yet they can know the year? How else can the beast gather his armies to march unto Jerusalem for they can figure out when Christ is coming back as the King of kings? 7 year great tribulation.

So no.. it is not at the end of the great tribulation for surely that is not a thief in the night moment for the rapture to take place but in the here and now like in the days of Noah.. where saved believers can be caught off guard for the everyday care and pleasures of life & be ensnared for why today... right now, we need to pray that we will not be overcharged by the cares of this life, so we can escape.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. 16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. 21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

That is why Jesus referred to Lot's wife who loved this life more than to escape just as Jesus warned us not to treasure anything on earth to want to go back & get it to take it with us. We have to go when He comes. No buts.

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

I am praying that the Lord Jesus Christ has me abiding in Him & His words as well as having me willing to go no matter what I am in the middle of doing... in leaving all behind because that is what I am trusting Him to do as my hope is in Him for following Him as my Good Shepherd all the way Home above

 

[Brother Paul]

I have always wondered if these souls were all the souls of history that were beheaded for Christ or just the ones during tribulation??

No! Because it says that in Revelations 20:7-9.

 

[Brother Paul]

Because it can happen at any moment now. Every believer that thinks it will happen at the end of the great tribulation when He said no man can know the day nor the hour and yet they can know the year? How else can the beast gather his armies to march unto Jerusalem for they can figure out when Christ is coming back as the King of kings? 7 year great tribulation.

So no.. it is not at the end of the great tribulation for surely that is not a thief in the night moment for the rapture to take place but in the here and now like in the days of Noah.. where saved believers can be caught off guard for the everyday care and pleasures of life & be ensnared for why today... right now, we need to pray that we will not be overcharged by the cares of this life, so we can escape.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. 16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. 21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

That is why Jesus referred to Lot's wife who loved this life more than to escape just as Jesus warned us not to treasure anything on earth to want to go back & get it to take it with us. We have to go when He comes. No buts.

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

I am praying that the Lord Jesus Christ has me abiding in Him & His words as well as having me willing to go no matter what I am in the middle of doing... in leaving all behind because that is what I am trusting Him to do as my hope is in Him for following Him as my Good Shepherd all the way Home above

But we are children of the day not the night and it will not overtake us as a thief in the night (or so says the scriptures) 1 Thesselonians 5:4-8

 

[Brother Paul]

Not in Revelation 20:1-6 it does not say that, but I do recall another passage saying that about the fire from heaven. Perhaps you can cite the specific reference?

My point about Revelation 20:1-6 is Satan is defeated and in the pit for a thousand years which means Christ is on earth for having accomplished that.. per Zechariah 14:1-5 with His feet touching down on the Mount of Olives.

And then the resurrection of those saints as described as having died in the great tribulation were the ones resurrected along with those that have died but were not resurrected as part of the firstfruits before the great tribulation because they were in iniquity but their spirits were still with the Lord in Heaven awaiting for the number of saints that will die during the great tribulation for their resurrection after the great tribulation.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

I am open to correction by the scripture since we prophesy in part and know in part, but that is my understanding in what I am reading in the scripture as all the truths does line up in His words for the bigger picture.

"Not in Revelation 20:1-6 it does not say that, but I do recall another passage saying that about the fire from heaven. Perhaps you can cite the specific reference?"

Revelations 20:7-9. Never just read what the seller of a doctrine tells you. Always explore the whole word and take it forst for what it says not what others tell you that it means.

 

[GodB4Us]

But we are children of the day not the night and it will not overtake us as a thief in the night (or so says the scriptures) 1 Thesselonians 5:4-8

Only if saved believers are abiding in Him & His words, otherwise it will overtake them in the night for why they were not ready. Just as the church is to excommunicate a brother for not repenting from sins, so will God do at the rapture event for why God has to judge His House first as the Bridegroom before coming back again as the King of kings to judge the world in establishing His kingdom on earth.

No one living in heresy or in sin will be allowed to eat at the Marriage Supper table in Heaven.

Those left behind are to be considered as excommunicated from the fellowship at the Marriage Supper table as "disqualified" or "reprobates" but this is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are still in His House even though they did not depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom had come.

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Those left behind are given to Satan to the destruction of the flesh; hence physical death but their spirits are still saved as written above to be applied in that way also for how God judges His House.

And below confirms how His Marriage supper in Heaven will be held too.

6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

That is why Jesus's warnings are for us now in these latter days where the falling away from the faith is happening in droves for why the times of the Gentils is coming to an end for when after the rapture event, the dispensation of the gospel, will go back to the Jews, the 144,000 witnesses for the duration of the great tribulation, ( plus those 2 witnesses in Jerusalem that I believe is Enoch & Elijah. as there will be a special rapture just for those 2 per Revelation 11:1-13 KJV )

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

We can trust Jesus Christ to keep the souls of His saints that gets left behind to die as their spirits will be with the Lord in heaven awaiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth.. because He will finish His work even in those left behind as He will lose none of all the Father has given Him; John 6:39-40 & Philippians 1:6

 

[GodB4Us]

"Not in Revelation 20:1-6 it does not say that, but I do recall another passage saying that about the fire from heaven. Perhaps you can cite the specific reference?"

Revelations 20:7-9. Never just read what the seller of a doctrine tells you. Always explore the whole word and take it forst for what it says not what others tell you that it means.

But that event is after His 1000 year reign on earth when Satan is released from the pit after a thousand years to stage a last rebellion in drawing away the generations coming out of that reign.

That is not at His coming as the King of kings in establishing His reign on earth. That is the King of kings protecting His people during Satan's last stage of rebellion at the end of His 1000 tear reign.

Revelation 20:1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Brother Paul]

Only if saved believers are abiding in Him & His words, otherwise it will overtake them in the night for why they were not ready. Just as the church is to excommunicate a brother for not repenting from sins, so will God do at the rapture event for why God has to judge His House first as the Bridegroom before coming back again as the King of kings to judge the world in establishing His kingdom on earth.

No one living in heresy or in sin will be allowed to eat at the Marriage Supper table in Heaven.

Those left behind are to be considered as excommunicated from the fellowship at the Marriage Supper table as "disqualified" or "reprobates" but this is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are still in His House even though they did not depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom had come.

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Those left behind are given to Satan to the destruction of the flesh; hence physical death but their spirits are still saved as written above to be applied in that way also for how God judges His House.

And below confirms how His Marriage supper in Heaven will be held too.

6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

That is why Jesus's warnings are for us now in these latter days where the falling away from the faith is happening in droves for why the times of the Gentils is coming to an end for when after the rapture event, the dispensation of the gospel, will go back to the Jews, the 144,000 witnesses for the duration of the great tribulation, ( plus those 2 witnesses in Jerusalem that I believe is Enoch & Elijah. as there will be a special rapture just for those 2 per Revelation 11:1-13 KJV )

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

We can trust Jesus Christ to keep the souls of His saints that gets left behind to die as their spirits will be with the Lord in heaven awaiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth.. because He will finish His work even in those left behind as He will lose none of all the Father has given Him; John 6:39-40 & Philippians 1:6

Great point. They will be caught by surprise.

 

[Brother Paul]

But that event is after His 1000 year reign on earth when Satan is released from the pit after a thousand years to stage a last rebellion in drawing away the generations coming out of that reign.

That is not at His coming as the King of kings in establishing His reign on earth. That is the King of kings protecting His people during Satan's last stage of rebellion at the end of His 1000 tear reign.

Revelation 20:1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Yes this is correct. I think I inadvertently gave you the former response but it was meant for one that was making a point of two or one and half raptures and the order of men. In most threads I hold to mostly the same perspective as you. Yes what you have said is classic historic premillennialism held by the early church until Ephesus in 431 when politics started taking over and they adopted Amillennialism. They believed it was God's will for them to take over the kingdoms of the world for Christianity with Rome of course as its ultimate head. That did not last long and their methods were often not very Christ-like.

 

[Dave M]

​

No! Because it says that in Revelations 20:7-9.

​

I am not following you, this speaks of the future my question was about the past. Can you elaborate on what you mean?
thanks

Revelation 20:7–9 — ​

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

 

[Brother Paul]

​

​

I am not following you, this speaks of the future my question was about the past. Can you elaborate on what you mean?
thanks

Revelation 20:7–9 — ​

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Yeah! My apologies I posted that to the wrong person.