Active
Partial rapture is not a topic or a term stated so plainly in the Bible, much like "rapture" or the Triune God, but scriptures are there talking about the partial rapture and the Triune God.
How Do You Believe in the Rapture & Is There a Partial Rapture?
Active
In my opinion, it is important to understand that Paul says it occurs at the Parousia (the coming). It is then that we are caught up together to meet Him in the air. Secondly, Paul tells us that at this time (His coming) the Anti-Christ is consumed by His brightness. So both these events occur AT THE COMING.
Active
I understand that point of view and wish to submit scripture for consideration with the Lord otherwise.
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
I apply 2 event here where the first event is why Jesus is coming as the Bridegroom for the abiding bride of Christ.
Paul goes on to signify that the iniquity at work in these latter days that is causing the falling away from the faith was happening even in his day.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
This is in regards to the falling away from the faith rather than that son of perdition at the end of the great tribulation. Everyone will know the son of perdition will be leading the world's armies in marching unto Jerusalem and so there would be no "revelation" there, especially since the beats is waging war on the saints thru out that whole time during the great tribulation to kill Christians by the words & hunger because they need the mark of the beast to buy & sell to survive.
So the Wicked shall be revealed that causes the falling away from the faith as Paul continues to address that iniquity next in why God would permit the strong delusion to occur on saved believers that fall away;
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
If they believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Ghost again or apart from salvation after a sign 1 Corinthians 14:20-22 KJV or prompted to seek salvation by receiving the Holy Ghost by a sign Matthew 12:39-40 KJV, God would permit that strong delusion to occur.
Paul goes on to give the reproof towards that lie by reminding believers of the traditions taught of us for when we had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth which was at the calling of the gospel and at no other time.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Now for that "damned" part of 2 Thessalonians 2:12 as if inferring they were never saved or that they had lost that salvation for falling away from the faith; not so because of the Father's will here John 6:39-40 KJV There are 2 kinds of vessels in His House and the vessels unto honor are the ones that had departed from that iniquity as well as other iniquities by His grace & by His help before the Bridegroom had come whereas the ones that did not are the reason why they are called the vessels unto dishonor but still in His House 2 Timothy 2:18-21 KJV, albeit left behind to receive their stripes per the knowledge they had for not being ready Luke 12:40-49 KJV from the Father as they will never commit those sins again Hebrews 12:1-11 KJV at their resurrection after the great tribulation Revelation 7:9-17 KJV.
We read on to how Paul address those who have fallen away from the faith and no longer walking after the traditions taught of us and are disorderly as they are in slain in the spirit, holy laughter, & using tongues for private use today which is not of Him at all, that Paul says we are commanded from the Lord to withdraw from them but not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers because they still are, but at risk of being "damned" vessels unto dishonor in His House, unless they repent with His help before the Bridegroom has come. We can trust Him to do a good job in being faithful in keeping the souls of His saints that shall suffer being left behind 1 Peter 4:17-19 KJV
That is how I see Him destroying that Wicked at the brightness of His coming when those left behind see that Wicked and their iniquity which was really after the workings of Satan all along.
Since at the end of the great tribulation, He is doing a whole lot more than that by "the brightness of His coming" in "destroying" the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem when His feet will touch down on the Mount of Olives and since there is no "reveal" there as to who that Wicked one is, then I apply that to the iniquity that is causing the fall away from the faith today in these latter days for how the brightness of His coming shall reveal and destroy that Wicked & iniquity off of that foundation of the saints left behind but that foundation shall remain as that seal of adoption is too for why they are saved see verse 15 in spite of physical death in verses 16-17 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 KJV
Anyway, this is why I believe your reference was actually towards the iniquity that causes the falling away from the faith that was to happen first before our gathering unto Him at the pre great tribulation rapture event as I see why saints are warned to repent as in be ready as found abiding in Him or else be cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation. Revelation 2:18-25 KJV
Active
Of course the great falling away and the revealing of that man of sin comes BEFORE His coming. The great falling away has already begun.
Active
I understand that it is difficult to see 2 events being spoken of here as He must judge His House first because of that falling away from the faith for why He is coming as the Bridegroom before He comes as the King of kings in judging the world. I can only hope in the Lord that He is ministering for you to see here. If not now, maybe later on... in His time when He causes the increase.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
There is an order to the resurrection as the first is before the great tribulation at His appearing as the Bridegroom in gathering unto Him to attend the marriage Supper above in Heaven and then they that be Christ's at His coming.
Those who are partakers of the first fruits will be like the angels that never die nor marry and they shall live in the City of God forever.
Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Those who are Christ's at His coming are resurrected after the great tribulation where the power of the second death will not be over them as it needs to be stated because he power of the first death still does. but that will not be so for the generations coming from them as their fate will be decided if they remain loyal to Christ or not when Satan is released from the pit after a thousand years to stage a last rebellion.
Revelation 20:1-15 KJV
Once Satan has been defeated and thrown in the lake of fire along with death & hell at the Great White Throne Judgment, then they will die no more but still need the tree of life for the healing of the nations in that City of God.
Revelation 22:1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
So there are two folds of sheep and those that depart from us & still not have repented when the Bridegroom as come are not of the first fold, but other sheep He has for why those astray He must bring them as they will hear His voice literally as the King of kings and be of the one fold and one Shepherd.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
So He will get those lost sheep left behind as they are they that be Christ's at His coming.
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Active
Do you notice the eisegesis necessary to make the passages say what you state? I know you do not, but I thought I would ask. You read your position INTO what was said rather then allow the word to speak for itself! To maintain your position you can not allow the plain word of God to shape the doctrine. NO where does the scriptures teach that there is a half or partial and then a full Second Coming (parousia). No where unless I re-interpret what is plainly said. I am grateful to our Father for your sake that our salvation is not dependent on the timing of the catching up to be with Him.
Active
Feel free to apply this reference then for rightly dividing the word of truth, Brother Paul. What is Paul meaning regarding every man in his own order if there was only one resurrection coming?
I understand that some apply Christ the firstfruits as if that only meant Christ Jesus Himself but I do noticed that firstfruits is plural. And then there is that resurrection regarding every man in his own order as if Christ the firstfruits is separate from they that be Christ's at His coming.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
So if we just took that reference by itself without my tying in other verses, what is Paul talking abut here, Brother Paul?
Active
Christ's was the first true resurrection of a glorified man, and all of us who are His, will be likewise resurrected (being glorified, since our spirits are already with Him) AT HIS COMING (the one and only parousia the Bible speaks of everywhere). You read in (eisegesis) your position into all other scriptures you used as well. None are allowed to simply say what they say and are re-interpreted to MEAN something not said. In fact, as most from your 'johnny come lately school' teach, I will bet you have been convinced that when His angels gather His elect to Him in Matthew 24 you would say this is referring only to Jews, but it again DOES NOT SAY THAT. Paul, in the catching up to meet Him in the air is directly referring to this teaching. They are speaking of the same event (the coming). Now explore how the Greek term "apentensis" is used here. When He comes, the one and only time, He comes all the way down (us now being with Him). At this time (when He comes) the Anti-Christ is consumed by His brightness, which means the Church (the dead in Christ and we who are alive) are still on earth during the Anti-Christ's reign.
Active
Then why say Christ the firstfruits <---- that " s " on the end that is plural? Why say every man in his own order as far as resurrection is concern in when all shall be made alive? Why write it like that?
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Why does Zechariah 14:1-5 KJV has the Lord coming back with the saints to do battle with the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem at the end of the great tribulation when His feet shall touch down on the Mount of Olives BUT in Revelation 20:1-6 KJV the world's armies is defeated and Satan is in the pit for a thousand years BEFORE those that went through the great tribulation are resurrected?? That means Christ is not meeting those resurrected after the great tribulation in the air when He is already on earth!!
Serious questions, brother. Scripture gives just cause to discern with Him when that scenario of yours is not lining up.
Loyal
If it is only talking about the Jews, then only the Jews will be raptured, because both Matthew 24:31; and Mark 13:27; say only the elect will be raptured.
If this is the case... then no rapture for Gentiles.
Active
Glad you agree this is the Church (Jews and gentiles one in messiah. One new man) and not just the Jewish people
And Zech 14 says exactly what the rest says. The Lord comes and we are with Him to destroy the enemies of God. No half rapture then return later.
Active
But the saints that comes back with the Lord as the Lord do battle with the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem as you noted BUT...
BUT...
Satan is in the pit for a thousand years in Revelation 20:1-6 BEFORE the saints that went through the great tribulation are resurrected.
That means Jesus is on earth already after defeating the world's armies & Satan is in the pit for a thousand years BEFORE that resurrection takes place.
Those resurrected after the great tribulation are not meeting the Lord in the air when He is already on earth after defeating the world's armies and Satan is in the pit for a thousand years.
Loyal
That is a tricky portion of scripture to be sure.
But I will throw another wrench in the works here.Rev 20:3; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
It seems that those "who had been beheaded because of their testimony" will sit on the thrones of judgment will come to life and reign "WITH" Christ for a thousand years.
After this... then... the rest of the dead come to life later as you state.
So are there two resurrections? I don't know.
John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Active
Out of quote box to read better...That is a tricky portion of scripture to be sure.
Rev 20:3; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
Well, just to clarify my position, the two resurrections of the elect are with the first one as Christ the firstfruits are of those who abide in Him to be received by the Bridegroom at the rapture event before the great tribulation comes in being vessels unto honor in His House....
Those left behind to die & then their spirits will be with the Lord, will be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth.
The reason Revelation 20:5 is written is to explain why that was called the "first resurrection", meaning that resurrection was to happen first before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the Great White Throne Judgment. This was not inferring nor meaning that there was no resurrection or rapture event before the great tribulation had come.
Judgment must come on the House of God first because of the falling away from the faith for why Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else. This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are in His House for not being ready.
Active
They do not fight his armies. The passage says they are defeated by fire from heaven.
Active
Not in Revelation 20:1-6 it does not say that, but I do recall another passage saying that about the fire from heaven. Perhaps you can cite the specific reference?
My point about Revelation 20:1-6 is Satan is defeated and in the pit for a thousand years which means Christ is on earth for having accomplished that.. per Zechariah 14:1-5 with His feet touching down on the Mount of Olives.
And then the resurrection of those saints as described as having died in the great tribulation were the ones resurrected along with those that have died but were not resurrected as part of the firstfruits before the great tribulation because they were in iniquity but their spirits were still with the Lord in Heaven awaiting for the number of saints that will die during the great tribulation for their resurrection after the great tribulation.
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
I am open to correction by the scripture since we prophesy in part and know in part, but that is my understanding in what I am reading in the scripture as all the truths does line up in His words for the bigger picture.
Loyal
I have always wondered if these souls were all the souls of history that were beheaded for Christ or just the ones during tribulation??
Active
Since not every believer will be found abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes to be raptured, the same will be for those that have passed on even though their spirits are with the Lord in Heaven, awaiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation.
That is how I seem to be seeing in the scripture but since we prophesy in part and know in part, we will know for sure soon enough when we come face to face with Him in Heaven... unless He gives wisdom for us to know for sure down here.
Loyal
If Christ isn't them, and they aren't in Christ, are they saved? Notice I didn;t ask if they are a believer. Even the demons believe.
Even the people in Matt 7:21-23; believe. But do these people abide in Christ?
Is there any verse in the Bible, that says there will be two separate raptures? For that matter is there any verse that says
there will be a "pre-trib" rapture anywhere? I can give at least two that say the rapture will be after the tribulation.
And at least half a dozen more to support this.
Loyal
Matt 24:44; "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
Luke 12:40; "You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect."
Matt 24:42; "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Matt 24:43; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Matt 25:13; "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
Mark 13:35; "Therefore, be on the alert—for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning—
Mark 13:37; "What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert!'"
1Cor 16:13; Be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
Eph 6:18; With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,
1Thes 5:6; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
Now often, these verses get turned into a pre-trib/post-trib debate... but no matter when the rapture is... why do Jesus and Paul keep telling us over and over again to be ready, be alert, be sober...
What will happen if you aren't awake, ready, sober?
Luke 12:40; "You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect."
Matt 24:42; "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Matt 24:43; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Matt 25:13; "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
Mark 13:35; "Therefore, be on the alert—for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning—
Mark 13:37; "What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert!'"
1Cor 16:13; Be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
Eph 6:18; With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,
1Thes 5:6; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
Now often, these verses get turned into a pre-trib/post-trib debate... but no matter when the rapture is... why do Jesus and Paul keep telling us over and over again to be ready, be alert, be sober...
What will happen if you aren't awake, ready, sober?