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How Can we Be Perfect In Order To Get To Heaven when....

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:wink: Ok, I have been wondering this, Ok, I heard somewhere, that in order to get to heaven, we must be perfect, how can that be when the Bible says: WE all fall short of the Glory of God.

And, I was talking to my mother and she was telling me that, we have to strive to be perfect, but how can we do that when like me married to a man, that won't listen to me about God and His Coming again, and his cursing and his saying "God's Name" in vain, and gambling, and his bad attitude of my helping my family and always feeling depressed because some other people in my family don't really want to hear it either, and I get up tight and dismayed because if we are to be perfect to enter Heaven, how can we be??

I have been doing Bible Research for a Book I am writing and I just cant seem to find the right verses???
 
Member
Patricia, here are a few verses that might help. It is hard to live in a fallen world, when we know our true home will be heaven. When you are living right, your life shines as a light to the lost around you. I expect you know by now that our life tells those closes to us more than our words ever will.

Romans 10:9-11 ( New Living Translation )

For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. As the Scriptures tell us, "Anyone who believes in him will not be disappointed."

Philippians 2:14-16 ( New Living Translation)

In everything you do, stay away from complaining and arguing, so that no one can speak a word of blame against you. You are to live clean, innocent lives as children of God in a dark world full of crooked and perverse people. Let your lives shine brightly before them. Hold tightly to the word of life, so that when Christ returns, I will be proud that I did not lose the race and that my work was not useless.

Also read Ephesians chapter 4, start at verse 17 and read to the end of the chapter. In verse 24 Paul writes:

You must display a new nature because you are a new person, created in God's likeness-righteous, holy and true.

Verse 26: And don't sin by letting anger gain control over you. Don't let the sun go down while you are still angry.

My wife had to put up with a husband like that for many years. I thank God she stayed with me!

Most if not all the letters Paul wrote in the NT speak on what you are looking for. Colossians chapter 3 is another. Keep in mind that when Paul wrote many of these letters he was sitting in jail, I think he understands something about the way you are feeling. And of course we know Christ did, we killed Him.

God Bless
 
Member
The original word translated "perfect" in english means "perfect...in the sense of being "Complete". We are made "perfect" or "complete" by our relationship with Christ. Perfection is not something we acheive. It is given to us as a gift of God through Christ's sacrifice. Because of His sacrifice we are made perfect/complete and are ready for heaven.

You are correct when you look at your life and ask how can I ever be perfect enough to go to heaven? And the answer is you can't.

But.... because of Christ's sacrifice and His forgiveness, you and I don't have to worry about being "perfect" anymore. Christ is perfect and we are in Christ and God attributes his perfection to us.

I know this sounds to easy... and in a sense it frees us from being accountable for our own actions.... but that's what God's forgiveness is all about. Christ took the accountability for us. This frees us to love Him and eachother and to be obedient to Him.

This doesn't mean life is going to be easy... and I sympathize with your situation at home. I pray for you and that God will touch your husband's heart.

Does this help answer your question?
 
Member
pappa said:
Patricia.... what is the book you are writing? Maybe I can help you locate some scriptures.

Here is a link to a free Bible research tool that might help you. It's called E-Sword.

http://www.e-sword.net/downloads.html

Let me know if you find it useful.
Thanks Markm and Pappa, see this is where I'm not sure what is going on in my life, I know Christ is here with me, and has never left me, but I still seem to feel, like I am not as strong, anymore, because of the invironment in my own house. I also, wonder, if I really am worthy of God anymore, because of all the mistakes I have made and all I have said and done, over the years.

But, I want to do as I feel God wants me to, andit seems like I am always failing somewhere, somehow.

Pappa, the Book I am writing is a Bible Research Book, on Topics, that I have always wondered about, and what other people may wonder, on how to interpet them, on their meaning. I am, really wanting Verses needing rather, on perfection, righteiousness,what God says, about Homesexuality, etc. what is sin actually when it comes to our bodies and our innerself.

Does that make sense??

Thanks Again...For helping me!!
 
Member
Try Romans Chapter one.

If your book is geared to new converts you might want to refer to the New Living Translation? We use it with our youth group, I find we can spend more time on the meaning of a verse and less on meaning of a word.
I normally quote NLT or KJV.
 
Member
[face=Tahoma:78a23d390d]Well, I understand how it may become tedious to live a seperate life under pressure sometimes.

First of all, the Bible says, (paraphrased) "no one is perfect...no not one," and "our righteousness is as dirty rags." Let me tell you know, the Lord is not expecting us to be holy-moly perfect people for that is impossible.

He honors the striving though.

YOu see, GOd knows our hearts, so if He knows that you are truly desirous to be like Him...He will honor that and give you the strength you need to conquer the enemy.

Pray throughout the day and don't give place to the enemy. Show love to your enemies and pray, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." You will heap coals of fire on their heads as it says in proverbs and they will become amazed at this love.

Admission to heaven is not determined by our perfection. Just think about that! I mean if we had to be absolutely sinless, then NO ONe could get in. BUt if Christ is in you, then you will have the strength to live a life of holiness and seperation and that is what God honors. :smile: [/face:78a23d390d]
 
Member
Thanks So Much Everyone, my system has been messed up since I upgraded to Norton's Security Professional, and just getting everything back up.

I Appreciate all the help I can get, and I appreciate everyone, helping me on the "Perfect" deal, because I know that if we had to "Be Perfect" then "Umashamed" is absolutely right, because NOONE, I mean Noone would get into the Narrow Gate.

If, anyone, would like for me to ad their experiences, through certain circumstances, intheir life, I would be very glad to add those to my Bible Research Journal.

Looking for ways to overcome trials, sin,unblievers in family, etc. and circumstances in one's life that and how they overcome them.

Thanks
 
Member
Patricia :grin: Hello there,
The best Reference Bible i have seen and used is the : Thompson Chain Reference Study Bible, King James Version, through the Kirkbride Bible Company.
It is the best one to use to find Scriptures to any Topic of Discussion that you choose to look up. Personally i have researched many different Bibles and Reference Studies, and i always come back to the Thompson. :grin:
It is reasonably priced and you can find it in your local Bible Book Store.

also here is a link to it :
http://www.kirkbride.com/

Check it out and see what you think :grin:
 
Member
There are many that call themselves christians and call JESUS, LORD, LORD, and do not the things which HE says. Who is their Lord anyway? JESUS said, "love thy neighbour as thyself" Where are ALL the followers of JESUS?

---"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your FATHER which is in heaven is perfect."( Matt. 6:48 ). Jesus would not command us to be perfect if it were not possible. JESUS has showen mankind way to the kingdom of God on earth and in heaven

--- " why call me LORD, LORD, and do not the things which I say?- ( Luke 6:46)

---" Why callest me good? there is none good but one: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep my comandments --- If thou wilt be perfect. go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow ME. ( Matt.19:17-26 )

--- "Thou shalt love the lord thy God with all thy heart, and all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two comandments hang all the law and the prophets."(Matt.:22:37-40).

---"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. (John 13:35).

---"Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you ---" ( Matt.5:43-48 )

---"Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you ---" ( Luke 6:27-38 )

--- "love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again: and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." ( Luke 6:27-38 )

Why did JESUS say these things? Were these words written in vain? These WORDS are for all those that believe who JESUS was and is. Because of the LOVE of his FATHER and humanity, JESUS gave his WORDS and his LIFE, and SUFFERED, so that mankind may inherit The Kingdom of God and heaven.

How many christian do you know that believe that these commandments, spoken from JESUS, the Christ? An interesting question is, who or what is preventing christians to follow JESUS' commandment? LET LOVE RULE? This is the only way to achieve Peace in the world.

JESUS said, "ALL POWER is given unto ME in heaven and earth" (Matthew 28:18).--- "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in on wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."(Matthew 5:18) --- "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but MY WORDS shall not pass away."

Peace be with you, Paul
 
Member
There's already been alot of replies, but no one seems to have noted something very significant. That verse "be perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect." is part of Jesus' Sermon on the Mount. In this sermon, Jesus lays down various "kingdom principles"--ways that the Kingdom of God operates. This sermon has also been considered the New Testament version of the OT Law. And for good reason, it resembles in many ways the law that God gave to the Israelites. What's key about this is that the Israelites were unable to keep the Law. Paul details that the Law simply brought awarness of sin, not holiness. Likewise, the Sermon on the Mount, which actually increased the strictness of the Law in many ways, should serve to bring an awareness of sin. In fact, so much awareness of sin, that one should instantly see their need for a Savior.

Effectively, no one can be perfect. Even after coming to Christ, perfection is not attainable, although one may get close, potentially. Only Christ was perfect, and by the grace of God, His righteousness has been imputed to all who call on His name. So in the eyes of God, all those in Christ fulfill the "be perfect as He is perfect" formula, eventhough their actions may still be somewhat less than.
 
Administrator
Staff Member
Amen. That was a great post romans5n1. You made it very clear. Thank you for sharing that with us.
 
Member
REALITY CHECK

YOU DONT GO TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE YOU DONT GO TO HEAVEN FULL STOP
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And this is why........

Do we have an Immortal soul?

Do we have an immortal soul and do we go to heaven when we die? Let us say straight away, that as Christadelphians, we cannot find any evidence in the Bible to suggest we have an immortal soul, or that we go to heaven when we die. Nowhere in scripture are the words "Immortal soul" brought together. The bible does not teach that when we die we go to heaven, but teaches that we must look for our reward on earth at the resurrection of the faithful. Psalm 37 v 11 "But the meek shall inherit the earth; and they shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Daniel 12 v 2 "and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Psalm 115 v 16 "the heaven, even the heavens, are the Lords, but the earth hath he given to the children of men". Revelation 5 v 10 "and has made us unto our God kings and priest and we shall reign on the earth".



Quite clearly the Bible teaches that the grave is a place of unconsciousness, which only resurrection can bring to an end. It is to this place of oblivion that all the dead must go. Psalm 6 v 5 "for in death there is no remembrance of thee: In the grave who shall give thee thanks? "Psalm 89 v 48 what man is he that liveth, and shall not see death. Shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave?" Psalm 146 v 3 and 4 says "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth: In that very day his thoughts perish."

Ecclesiastes 9v 5 "for the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they anymore reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Nowhere in the creation record of Genesis does it tell us that there was a part of Adam that could not die. We see that when Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden, they passed from righteousness and peace, to sinfulness and strife. Now if this were not so why does it say in Romans 6 v23, "the wages of sin is death".

There are many references to soul in the Bible, which simply mean "living creature", not some invisible soul that somehow leaves the body in death.

Ezekiel 18 v 4 & 20
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die"

Psalm 22 v 20
"Deliver my soul from the sword, my darling from the power of the dog"

Proverbs 19 v 15 "Slothfulness casteth into a deep sleep: an idle soul shall suffer hunger

Revelation 16 v 3 "And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became
as the blood of a dead man; and every living soul died in the sea.

Some people are convinced that to disbelieve the doctrine of the immortality of the soul is to deny a basic Christian teaching. We are sure that this is not so. Indeed belief in the clear Bible teaching about the mortality of man and death is an essential step to a true understanding of the word of God. No man has been in heaven or is there now, with the exception of Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us that the earth, where God placed man in the beginning, is the place where he will receive his blessing. Our reward is to be here on earth not in heaven. The Bible makes it plain that we are mortal and only when we admit this can we truly look forward to the salvation it offers.
 
Member
i think you need to read larger chunks of scripture...

when the bible says "he shall reign on earth"... it mean we will reign on earth with God, after the second coming (from memory, i think its for 1000 yrs)

also, when you talk about 'heavens', be more specific, there are actually 3 heavens, one being hell.

i'm not attacking you personally, but you've clearly misinterpreted many of the scriptures you've quoted...

P.S. sorry i can't be more specific, i don't have a bible with me at present!
 
Administrator
Staff Member
Nugget said:
REALITY CHECK

YOU DONT GO TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE YOU DONT GO TO HEAVEN FULL STOP
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And this is why........

Do we have an Immortal soul?

Do we have an immortal soul and do we go to heaven when we die? Let us say straight away, that as Christadelphians, we cannot find any evidence in the Bible to suggest we have an immortal soul, or that we go to heaven when we die. Nowhere in scripture are the words "Immortal soul" brought together. The bible does not teach that when we die we go to heaven, but teaches that we must look for our reward on earth at the resurrection of the faithful. Psalm 37 v 11 "But the meek shall inherit the earth; and they shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Daniel 12 v 2 "and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Psalm 115 v 16 "the heaven, even the heavens, are the Lords, but the earth hath he given to the children of men". Revelation 5 v 10 "and has made us unto our God kings and priest and we shall reign on the earth".



Quite clearly the Bible teaches that the grave is a place of unconsciousness, which only resurrection can bring to an end. It is to this place of oblivion that all the dead must go. Psalm 6 v 5 "for in death there is no remembrance of thee: In the grave who shall give thee thanks? "Psalm 89 v 48 what man is he that liveth, and shall not see death. Shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave?" Psalm 146 v 3 and 4 says "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth: In that very day his thoughts perish."

Ecclesiastes 9v 5 "for the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they anymore reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Nowhere in the creation record of Genesis does it tell us that there was a part of Adam that could not die. We see that when Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden, they passed from righteousness and peace, to sinfulness and strife. Now if this were not so why does it say in Romans 6 v23, "the wages of sin is death".

There are many references to soul in the Bible, which simply mean "living creature", not some invisible soul that somehow leaves the body in death.

Ezekiel 18 v 4 & 20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die"

Psalm 22 v 20 "Deliver my soul from the sword, my darling from the power of the dog"

Proverbs 19 v 15 "Slothfulness casteth into a deep sleep: an idle soul shall suffer hunger

Revelation 16 v 3 "And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became
as the blood of a dead man; and every living soul died in the sea.

Some people are convinced that to disbelieve the doctrine of the immortality of the soul is to deny a basic Christian teaching. We are sure that this is not so. Indeed belief in the clear Bible teaching about the mortality of man and death is an essential step to a true understanding of the word of God. No man has been in heaven or is there now, with the exception of Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us that the earth, where God placed man in the beginning, is the place where he will receive his blessing. Our reward is to be here on earth not in heaven. The Bible makes it plain that we are mortal and only when we admit this can we truly look forward to the salvation it offers.
I have a feeling you are misinterpreting some things here. First, we as Christian believers do go to Heaven, for sure. It is referred to as "new Jerusalem". Heaven is mentioned so many times in the Bible, it is our TRUE "home" as the Bible mentions. It is our TRUE "life".

Nugget said:
There are many references to soul in the Bible, which simply mean "living creature", not some invisible soul that somehow leaves the body in death.
If I'm not mistaking, this is truly incorrect. The soul is the life of our being (so to speak) as our blood is the life of our flesh. It is true the soul leaves the body (flesh) when we die. I have no idea where you think it does not. Please provide proof if I am wrong.
 
Member
Our Soul

'The soul is the life of our being (so to speak) as our blood is the life of our flesh. It is true the soul leaves the body (flesh) when we die. I have no idea where you think it does not.'
to take a quote from your post Chad and let you know that I truely agree with this.
 

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