Member
Unfortunately many things that God does not approve of are pleasing to us. We need to align our desires with what God approves of. It isn't always easy.
Homosexuality
Unfortunately many things that God does not approve of are pleasing to us. We need to align our desires with what God approves of. It isn't always easy.
Moderator
Staff Member
Don’t hate what you said, I just don’t agree with it. I think you’re confusing love & sex, with happiness. There is no problem in loving someone, but where the problem lies is when we feel that sex is a necessary component in expressing that love.
Either they are believers or they are not. If they are, then they’re true love is the Lord and they would want to do what is pleasing for him and not place themselves above Him. If they're not believers then does it matter? Their salvation would be of greater concern for me then whether they are having a relationship or not.
Continue to love them, and pray for them.
Oh yeah when you said they’re good people. Good is also relative. Remember Jesus’ answer to that when addressed as a “good teacher”.
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.”
Praying for you and your friends.
Loyal
You can love whoever you want. I love other men, I love my son, I love my father. I don't have sex with them. Love ands sex are not the same thing.
I love my mom, I love my sister, I love certain other women (not in the same way I would love a wife) but I don't have sex with them.
I Bible is very specific about loving one another. It is very specific about fornication and adultery. It is also very specific about homosexual behavior which has very little to do with loving someone.
Member
Doesn't make sense when it comes to homosexuality. The sin mentioned in the bible, that is described in some detail, always have negative effects. You steal, jail. You kill, jail. You have sex with someone other than your wife, she murders you. What negative side effect does homosexuality have? Loving someone of the same sex passionately? Social rejection and persecution? Who cares, Christians get persecuted all day long. So what's your point with this? Sin is pleasing to us but it screws us over from the get go, except for homosexuality...it's a trap?
I like this.
The point of this was? To explain the difference between the types of love between a person and people around him and a person and his spouse of the opposite sex? What if man loves another man the exact same way you love your wife? Is it different? Is it even possible when YOU think about it?
This has to be the HOTTEST topic to us christians. Some think it's okay, some think it's awful and evil. One bible says this, another bible says that. One person know for sure what the old text translation is, one person doesn't.
No offense to anyone that I responded to, btw.
Loyal
The Bible says what it says, several scriptures about homosexuality have been posted in the thread (see pages 1 and 2).
There is no twisting of scriptures, there is no translation problems, it says what it says. I really have to wonder about people saying a specific part of the Bible is wrong or in-correct. Of course it's always the part they disagree with or wish was different. It must be nice to be able to pick and choose which part of the Bible are "wrong" and which parts God "didn't really mean". You know there are quite a few verses in the Bible I myself have struggled with from time to time, maybe if we just removed them... (they must be incorrectly translated)
If God is big enough to create the universe and everything in it, and control the winds, the courses of the stars, the ocean tides and raging storms; if he is big enough to place every grain of sand, every hair on your head then I'm sure he is big enough to control what gets printed in the Bible, in his Word. I'm absolutely positive he didn't make any mistakes and nothing is in there that he didn't want to be there.
1Pet 1:24 For, "ALL FLESH IS LIKE GRASS, AND ALL ITS GLORY LIKE THE FLOWER OF GRASS. THE GRASS WITHERS, AND THE FLOWER FALLS OFF,
1Pet 1:25 BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER." And this is the word which was preached to you.
Isa 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.
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Member
with you on this leenie. 'drop the hate, give me love' should so be the mantra, and then, there's also the 'to each his/her own' (as far as no one's being hurt). gay being gay should not be a problem is my opinion to. value it or not is people's choice
Member
It's something that needs to be spiritually discerned. Of course from a secular or non-Christian standpoint there's nothing wrong with being homosexual. I don't think that "Natural Law" has anything to do with it. I just think that if God himself says that something is sin, it's a sin.
That doesn't mean we go out like in the book of Leviticus and stone people to death for having same sex relations with eachother. But we do carry the message of Romans, where it lists homosexual relations as an offense that can ban you from Heaven forever.
I'm incredibly attracted sexually to men myself, and I'm a man, but I realize from God's word that this is a struggle that I've suffered with from a very young age because of what people have forced me to be involved in by taking advantage of my innocense.
If I my put it a poetic context, The Devil is taking advantage of our desire to love passionately with homosexuality. I believe that homosexuals and bisexuals, and those with innapropriate sexual and gender desires are genuinely sincere people who can be just as moral and ethical as anyone else.
That doesn't mean that they are correct in their assumption that just because their sinful desires come from their heart and "It doesn't appear to be hurting anyone" . Fornication CERTAINLY doesn't appear to be hurting anyone. Yet the Bible says that's wrong.
Moderator
Staff Member
Sorry, we don't deal with Mantra's. I could be wrong but that would be Hindu and a few other non Christian religions. Israeli was a good example for not incorporating practices from other nations.
To each his own....hummm....I've been looking in scripture for that, but it seems to be alluding me...can you help me there?
As far as hurting no one, sadly I haven't seen the benefit of going against God's Word. Kind of like we'll do our own thing when it suits us, especially if God's thing is no fun or doesn't give us pleasure.
Doing our own thing is when we usually get in trouble.
And yes you can still love someone and not accept sinful behavior. Anyone with children is very aware of this. The children don't believe it at the time of correction, but the parent sees the need.
Still loving you brother, just not agreeing with you.
C4E
Member
I don't understand your point here. Sin doesn't always end in bad consequences in this lifetime. Many thieves don't get caught and jailed, many liars are not discovered, very few wives murder their adulterous husbands. These things remain sinful though regardless of the consequences here on Earth. God decides our standards not us.
Jud 1:7 NKJV as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
This is extreme consequence. If we approve of sexual immorality we are actually hating people rather than loving them. So if you hate homosexuals by all means condone homosexuality. Pleasure on Earth is fleeting and can have disastrous consequences on judgment day.
Many sins are hidden and the only way a Christian is capable of knowing his sin is through God's word and His Holy Spirit which convicts us to change/repent/resist. If we are able to convince ourselves something against God's standards is acceptable it can only be because we have decided to rebel. At that point our conscience is not working in line with God's will and we can continue in sin and its pleasures.
Homosexual actions are sinful as any sexual action outside of man/woman marriage is. We must resist and not approve of it.
Rom 1:28-32 NKJV And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; (29) being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, (30) backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, (31) undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; (32) who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
Member
well said indeed
Member
Just because you believe something to be wrong doesn't mean everyone else must also believe that way.
Also, state and federal legislation should have nothing to do with whether something is a "sin" or not, seeing as our government is a secular government.
The issue really boils down to whether those who are against homosexuality can adequately demonstrate that we need to utilize our secular government to prohibit homosexual acts or homosexual marriage. And because our government is secular, the arguments must also be secular.
Respectfully,
Traverse
Member
"Wrong" and "right" is not (and never has been) defined by man. As much as we like to try to define what is right or wrong in a given situation the "Truth" still remains.
If the Word of Almighty God is not the standard........WHAT IS ?
If the Word of Almighty God is not the standard........WHAT IS ?
Member
Great question, Donnie Ducati!
I don't want to remove ourselves from the initial discussion of this thread, but I would be more than happy to engage in a discussion regarding morality in a separate thread if you would like.
Respectfully,
Traverse
Member
This thread is titled "homosexuality" aren't we discussing weather its right or wrong and not general morality ?
Member
Sure, but your question, "If the Word of Almighty God is not the standard........WHAT IS ?" goes beyond just homosexuality.
Respectfully,
Traverse
Moderator
Staff Member
You mean similiar to how the homosexual has utilized the government to find approval for their behavior?
The problem to attempting to move the discussion to the secular government without adherence to scripture, is that most here utilize scripture as a part of their belief system.
Member
What do you mean by "find approval for their behavior"?
The arguments I've encountered that advocate in favor of homosexual marriage, removal of the "Don't ask don't tell" policy, or other such policies that discriminate based upon sexual preference are arguments that attempt to argue said discrimination is unconstitutional and/or unjust. So if by "approval" you mean removing state and federal sanctioned legal discrimination based upon sexual preference, then yes.
And they are free to do that. However, the United States Government is a secular constitutional republic relying on representative democracy, and is in no way a theocracy. So the policies of this country should not be based upon holy texts, Biblical or otherwise.
Respectfully,
Traverse
Loyal
And yet our constitution references God. Our pledge of alliegience references God, our money says "In God We Trust" on it. The fact is this country was founded on Christianity. If you are an advocate of sepraration of church and state, that's fine. The church certainly shouldn't the government what to do, but by the same token, the government shouldn't tell the people what morals to have, where they can pray, and that we have to support homosexulaity.
You can't have it both ways, yet our government is legislating morality right and left. Abortion, pornography, homosexuality, prayer in schools, removal of the 10 commandments in court rooms, omitting God in the pledge of allegience.. I'm not what these things have to do with running the government, but the government sure is adding laws about these things right and left.