History of the KJV

[Ed Edwards]

Here is an axiom that I wrote quickly
out of my head:

I believe axiomatically that all English versions
of God's Written Word, the Holy Bible, are
inerrant.

Here is the same, complete axiom that
I've stored off to the side:

I believe the following axiom: all valid
English Versions individually and collectively
contain and are the inerrant, Divinely Preserved,
Written Word of God, the Holy Bible.

What is your axiom that leads to what
you believe of the first element of this list?

The fundamentals of traditional fundamentalism:

1. the inspiration and infallibility of scripture
2. the deity of Christ (including His virgin birth)
3. the substitutionary atonement of Christ's death
4. the literal resurrection of Christ from the dead
5. the literal return of Christ in the Second Advent

 

[Ed Edwards]

Anchovy: //Thank you for the info, but what is a "laboarer"?//

It is 'laborer' misspelled.
I've heard people who believe as an
axiom that their Bible is so correct, if you can
find one letter out of order -- then the whole Bible is
thereby rendered inept.

So is my post wrong because I made and
obvious mistake? Or has my 30 year long
career as a glorified proof reader made the
mistake seem obvious to me?

Anchovy: //BTW, when did this "tax" you
say stopped being imposed?//

October 19, 1781 When Lord General
of the British Empire,
Charles Cornwallis, surrendered to
General of the 13 American Colonies,
George Washington, in Yorktown,
Virginia.

 

[Maureen]

I conclude that:
The Holy Spirit magnifies His ministry if one
uses multiple translations.

I really don't see how this would influence the Holy Spirit at all.
He already knows God's word, word perfect.
He Does not rely on differant versions.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Ed said this:

I believe the following axiom: all valid
English Versions individually and collectively
contain and are the inerrant, Divinely Preserved,
Written Word of God, the Holy Bible.

I conclude that:
if there seems to be a
difference of significance between the reading
of one Bible compared to another Bible
(or one Bible with itself) -- that perception is
of HUMAN not GODly origin.

I conclude that:
The Holy Spirit magnifies His ministry if one
uses multiple translations.

Brother Anchovy:

I'm amazed that you would
defame the word of God with your "conclusions"!

Uh, what?
I'm amazed that you would suggest
that I 'defame the Word of God'.
I magnify both the Written Word of God
(The Holy Bible) and the Living Word of
God (Jesus, the Messiah).
\o/ Hasheem be Praised \o/
\o/ Glory to the Lord \o/
\o/ Wonderful, wonderful, Messiah Yeshua \o/

Think of the converse of my conclusions:
(the next two statements are FALSE):

1. God messed up when more than one version
of the Bible existed & men need to straighten up
God's mess. [CAUTION, the preceding statement
is FALSE.]

2. The Holy Spirit can't help you if you can't figure
out why two versions of the Bible are different.
[CAUTION, the preceding statement is FALSE.]

Up topic I showed how to tell the difference between
commonly available KJVs. (there are other
different KJVs, but they are collector items).
Well, maybe it is just that I have those three
different KJVs? I also notice that nobody
bothered to tell me which of the KJVs they like???

I was noticing that there are 767 verses in the KJV1769 edition
which contain the word 'Jerusalem'.
The KJV1611 Edition has 634 verses in the Old Testament
which contain the word 'Ierusalem' and 133 verses
in the New Testament contain the word 'Hierusalem'.
Of course 634 + 133 = 767, so things are kosher there.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Maureen:

I really don't see how this would influence the Holy Spirit at all.
He already knows God's word, word perfect.
He Does not rely on differant versions.

Maureen:

The hand of our God is upon all them
for good that seek Him. Ezra 8 V22

Your two statement sets contradict each other.
If "The hand of our God is upon all them
for good that seek Him."
then the Holy Spirit can teach you from different
versions.

I was lead to the Lord with a KJV1769 Edition in
a man's hands.
I have lead people to the Lord with the KJV1769
Edition in my hand.
I have lead people to the Lord with the
NIV (New International Version) in my hand.
I have lead people to the Lord with the nKJV
(new King James Version in my hand.

 

[Maureen]

what has it got to do with what you have in your hands to lead people to the Lord let alone a Bible version?

I also have lead to the Lord, and didn't have anything in my hands, I was lead to the Lord by myself with nothing in my hands.

Nothing in my hands I bring
only to the cross I cling

you need to read over your words again, my two statements do not relate to each other, there is no contradiction at all there.
What has the hand of our God upon us got to do with the Holy Spirit needing differant bible versions?

 

[Ed Edwards]

From the book KEPT PURE IN ALL AGES (Far
Eastern Bible College Press of Singapore, 2001)
page 6:

Song: God's Word Preserved Through
-- the Ages (by Jack Sin)
Music: to the tune of Rise Up,
-- O Men of God (by William H Walter 1825-1893)

1. God's Word inspired and true
Revealed to men prepared:
Inerrant and infallible,
its message must be read.

...

7. By faith we can over
The Bible in our hands:
Accurate and reliable,
God's Eternal Word will stand.

Trailer, emphasis by Ed:

The hand of our God is upon all them
for good that seek Him.

It is good to have the Bible in my language
(early 21st Century (2001-2100) American English)
in the HCSB = Christian Standard
Version /Holman, 2003/.
It is also nice to have the Bible in 17th
Century (1601-1700) English English
in the KJV1611 Edition.
It is also a blessing of the Holy Spirit to
have the Bible in 18th Century (1701-1800) English
in the KJV1769 Edition.
It is even nice to have the Bible in 19th
Century (1801-1900) English in the KJV1873 Edition.

 

[Anchovy]

Anchovy: //Thank you for the info, but what is a "laboarer"?//

It is 'laborer' misspelled.
I've heard people who believe as an
axiom that their Bible is so correct, if you can
find one letter out of order -- then the whole Bible is
thereby rendered inept.

So is my post wrong because I made and
obvious mistake? Or has my 30 year long
career as a glorified proof reader made the
mistake seem obvious to me?

Anchovy: //BTW, when did this "tax" you
say stopped being imposed?//

October 19, 1781 When Lord General
of the British Empire,
Charles Cornwallis, surrendered to
General of the 13 American Colonies,
George Washington, in Yorktown,
Virginia.

Your mis-spelling is forgiven, but I would like something much more specific about the abolition of this "tax" you claim?

Did the Church at that time do something akin to dumping the King James Bible into Boston Harbor?

 

[Anchovy]

Here is an axiom that I wrote quickly
out of my head:

I believe axiomatically that all English versions
of God's Written Word, the Holy Bible, are
inerrant.

Here is the same, complete axiom that
I've stored off to the side:

I believe the following axiom: all valid
English Versions individually and collectively
contain and are the inerrant, Divinely Preserved,
Written Word of God, the Holy Bible.

What is your axiom that leads to what
you believe of the first element of this list?

The fundamentals of traditional fundamentalism:

1. the inspiration and infallibility of scripture
2. the deity of Christ (including His virgin birth)
3. the substitutionary atonement of Christ's death
4. the literal resurrection of Christ from the dead
5. the literal return of Christ in the Second Advent

You have obviously left at least one very important fundemental out: The expected sanctification of all believers in theis moratl life to maintain their testimony before a lost and dying world.


Also, you seem to have forgotten the fundemental of the Trinity of God.

You axiom would also validate any Gospel tract containing your 5 requirements to also be another version of the Bible .

 

[Anchovy]

Maureen:

Maureen:

Your two statement sets contradict each other.
If "The hand of our God is upon all them
for good that seek Him."
then the Holy Spirit can teach you from different
versions.

I was lead to the Lord with a KJV1769 Edition in
a man's hands.
I have lead people to the Lord with the KJV1769
Edition in my hand.
I have lead people to the Lord with the
NIV (New International Version) in my hand.
I have lead people to the Lord with the nKJV
(new King James Version in my hand.

So you admit to impersonating the Holy Ghost? I thought it was the Holy Ghost who points us to Jesus and guides us into all truth!

I think you're minimizing the need for faith here in an attempt to validate your preferences.

Also, it seems you're carrying on a previous arguement of sorts with the implication of a prior statement akin to only can one be saved from the KJV?

 

[Anchovy]

what has it got to do with what you have in your hands to lead people to the Lord let alone a Bible version?

I also have lead to the Lord, and didn't have anything in my hands, I was lead to the Lord by myself with nothing in my hands.

Nothing in my hands I bring
only to the cross I cling

you need to read over your words again, my two statements do not relate to each other, there is no contradiction at all there.
What has the hand of our God upon us got to do with the Holy Spirit needing differant bible versions?

Excellent reply, Sister, exactly the case when I got Gloriously Born Again!

It's not the version or the person, it's all the Holy Ghost or not at all!

 

[Maureen]

We have only one Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, He alone only can SAVE.

not a Bible in our hands, although it is the infallible word of God, it is still only He who can save us.

It's not the version or the person, it's all the Holy Ghost or not at all! Amen Brother.

John 14 v 6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

says it all.

 

[Anchovy]

We have only one Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, He alone only can SAVE.

not a Bible in our hands, although it is the infallible word of God, it is still only He who can save us.

It's not the version or the person, it's all the Holy Ghost or not at all! Amen Brother.

John 14 v 6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

says it all.

Exactly, and just for clarity's sake, I meant the Holy Ghost does the work of leading us to God. It's only through the shed blood of Christ we can be saved.

I was afraid some one might misunderstnad what I said.

 

[Maureen]

Yes brother, it's the work of the Holy Ghost to lead us to the cross, not only in our conversion, but daily in our walk.

This 'version' topic, is really not worth giving space too, we all know holding whatever version of Bible in our hands will never save us, or be the route of our Salvation. Amen

 

[Janette]

Uh...oops

So I've been privilaged to see pictures of a copy of the KJV that predated 1800 (but not by much).

It had 80 books.

What happened to the 14 books removed in the 1800's by an American publishing company?

I thought the KJV was supposed to have been done going through it's 7 purifications already?

The version of the KJV which Luther, Calvin, and most of the other "great" theologians and scholars of the Reformation used had 80 books.

Yet I hear the "KJV Only" people speak only of the 66 books in the most recent editions.

Could someone provide an explanation of that?

That really should have been two sentences, sorry.

It should read:

The version of the KJV which was popular in the United States and Europe until 1855 had 80 books.

The version of the Bible used by Martin Luther and many other great biblical scholars had 80 books. (Martin Luther's own German Bible also had 80 books).

---

Martin Luther apparently wrote that the Apocrypha do not equal inspired Scripture but are still good for reading and instruction into the proper manners one should maintain [as a Christian.]

I'm not going to debate Luther's authority to relegate those 14 books to secondary status, any more that I am going to question Jerome's ability to do the same in the Latin Vulgate. (But I really...really...want to).

----------

 

[Ed Edwards]

Your mis-spelling is forgiven, but I would like something much more specific about the abolition of this "tax" you claim?

Did the Church at that time do something akin to dumping the King James Bible into Boston Harbor?

The Church of England people largely supported
the King (King George, you know) of England.
The Baptists & Catholic (RCC, Roman Catholic
Church) largely supported the American rebels.
Most other religions of the time were largely
mixed. Most Catholics bootlegged Catholic Bibles.
Most of the Church of England people read the KJVs
and payed the royalty (hence the name) to the
King of England. Most Baptists bought Geneva Bibles
(mostly the 1600 Edition).

Actually I read a lot of this so don't have citations
for each idea that I have, it is just general knowledge.
I was rather young at the time myself.

 

[Ed Edwards]

I used to could find in the Apocrypha the part that
says the gestation period for Humans is
Ten Months -- really it is Nine Months, assuming proper
nutrition. It seems hard for me to put the 'Inerrant'
mark on Apocrypha. There are only 66 Books in
the Real part of a Bible.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Exactly, and just for clarity's sake,
I meant the Holy Ghost does the work of leading
us to God. It's only through the shed blood
of Christ we can be saved. ...

Amen, Brother Anchovy -- Preach it!

 

[Ed Edwards]

From THE FUNDAMENTALIST PHENOMENON, Second
Edition (Baker Book House, 1986) by Ed Dobson,
Ed Hindson, Jerry Falwell. From page 7:

Most people trace the basics of Fundamentalism back
to the five fundamentals that became critical in the
fundamentalist-modernist controversy.
These are usually expressed as:

1. the inspiration and infallibility of scripture
2. the deity of Christ (including His virgin birth)
3. the substitutionary atonement of Christ's death
4. the literal resurrection of Christ from the dead
5. the literal return of Christ in the Second Advent

I just wanted to list them to add emphasis to the
fact that my Bible axiom was an expansion
of basic.

Sorry about my 'lead to the Lord' talk,
I thought I was talking to Evangelical Baptists
and Kindred Jesus Lovers not to
those denominations that practice separation
so much that many married couples are in different
churches in the same neighborhood.

Does anybody else have any axioms or other logic
(could be a proved statement from the basics
above) about Bible Versions?

 

[Maureen]

I just wanted to list them to add emphasis to the
fact that my Bible axiom was an expansion
of basic.

Sorry about my 'lead to the Lord' talk,
I thought I was talking to Evangelical Baptists
and Kindred Jesus Lovers not to
those denominations that practice separation
so much that many married couples are in different
churches in the same neighborhood.

What has holding a Bible version in your hand when getting saved, got to do with 'talking to those denominations that practice separation so much that many married couples are in differant churches in the same neighborhood?

don't get the connection brother.