Hello brother Bear.
Thank you for replying. I am inspired to answer your reply realizing that you have a critical spirit—and its good in a sense that you are being like a Berean who doesn’t just embrace doctrine but who examines carefully the texts.
My response:
Now, you say don't major on minors, but have you heard, A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. Galatians 5:9 ?
Wherefore, do we ignore the little leaven in our belief? You went on to say it is healthy............>....and error?!
- I think you misunderstood what I wrote, “don’t major on minors”. What I meant when I wrote that is when we find passages or certain issues in the scripture that is at the moment we don’t quite understand; we don’t have to burry our heads trying still to dig especially when the matter being discussed is not really the central issue of our faith. Further elaboration, what I’m asserting is that topics that don’t contribute much make up to our core beliefs. Example of topics that is critical and essential is the issue of salvation. A person’s answer to who does he think Christ is has a very critical and important make-up for it spells identity (we can find out his spirit and we can know in a degree if he really believes in Christ or not. Of course we know the truth and the right answer to that question.) Now, the answer to the question of where’s hell in eternity is something not really significant to our core beliefs because simply it doesn’t touch essential issues such as ‘salvation’. Therefore the concern of where’s hell in eternity is a minor topic. That’s why I wrote “don’t major on minors.” – We don’t have to focus on less important issues. But nonetheless (here it comes) we should not just abandon it (what I meant when I wrote about leaving the topic off). Because it is a healthy thing even to discuss… like I said non-essential issues. Man, we can even talk speculations or imaginations of what is heaven like and we can take joy from it, be edified during fellowship while hanging out with fellow believers.
The only error is if we hold into our speculations making it as an essential part of our faith.
I believe my point here is clear but let me elaborate the statement further. Believing in our speculations making it equal… like we believe the word of God is opening a serious threat because we open now our hearts to fables and of course even to deception. I always hold unto the thought that “my opinion matters but what really matters most is God’s”. Therefore if a certain topic is elaborately and clearly held in the bible… then of course that’s the word of God and it holds the highest authority and surely that’s what matters most. But if there’s a space given, then I think we have to exercise the brain God gave us. The only rule that stands is that if the bible is silent about it then we better be quiet also. Example: in Revelation 10:4, if the words are not meant to be disclose then we must not even think about figuring what it is. Another one is also in Revelation 19:12, about the new name of Christ that nobody knows but Him alone. Trying to think what that name is only cheapening it and therefore we’re only maligning thus committing a horrible mistake.
And when did this become fact.... sheol = extreme degradation in sin ?
Just to clear up, what I wrote about “hell”, “sheol”, “hades”, “geenna” (sorry for the wrong spelling in the former article)is something I did not invent. I looked it up in Strong’s dictionary on original Greek and Hebrew texts. My bad is that I did not gave the information of where I took the excerpts from. Well now you know that it’s biblical and much even clearer because it is in the original meaning of the text. You can look it up, ‘sheol’ (H7585), ‘hadēs’ (G86), ‘geenna’ (G1067), ‘tartaroō’ (G5020), ‘Kĕluwhay’ (H3622). There’s no word in English that can translate the Greek and Hebrew words you just read except of course the English word ‘Hell’ that doesn’t really present clearly the definitions. As an example my friend, if you take the word ‘computer’ and translate it in our (Filipino) language, you’ll have a hard time. The closest word you can get is ‘tagakwenta’ which if I’ll translate it back to English; it means a person or a machine that counts money. You see the difficulty here? No big wonder why some of our brothers made it an argument as to what bible translation is the best. The dilemma actually is, “what is the closest translation” to the original texts.
And, nowhere does it say this in the Scriptures..... In Biblical Greek it is associated with Orcus, a very deep gulf or chasm in the lowest parts of the earth used as the common receptacle of the dead and especially as the abode of demons, the infernal regions, a dark and dismal place in the very depths of the earth, the common receptacle of disembodied spirits. Likewise both only mean to be a very uncomfortable place.
I don’t think I have to answer this. Again, look it up in the dictionary. refer also in Luke, about Lazaruz and the rich man. it was talking about hell-hades. you can see it from story that 'hades' is actually divided into two compartments with a great chasm inbetween. the other compartment is the abode of demons where also with the rebelious souls were confined. And i can go on explaining that those who died (OT saints) in faith before the sacrifice of Christ went to the other compartment with Abraham comforting them (which WAS paradise-not in heaven) because no one can enter heaven until Christ opened the door after His death and resurrection. refer to the prophecy of Isiah 42:7,49:9,61:1 (setting the captives free), and review Eph 4:8-10. he went to Hades where Abraham was and He proclaimed the gospel there. you can guess He said "guys, i made it. the long wait is over, c'mon let's go home." Haven't you questioned the fact that Jesus promised the theif on the other cross saying, "today you will be with me in paradise" and yet after three days when He conversed with Mary He said, "touch me not for i haven't gone to the Father yet." so where was paradise then? it's in Hades, one of the compartments where the souls there He freed and brought to heaven when He went home.
(the hell Christ was referring when He said all the powers of hell will not overcome His church) Are you referring to when Jesus was speaking to Simon Barjona, and said the gates of hell shall not prevail against the rock upon which He will build His Church? How is it that the gates of the place of the departed souls becomes the powers of hell? (see Matthew 16:18)
Yes my friend, Mat 16:18. “the gates” their in Greek is ‘ pule’ or ‘pylē’ which means fortress or palace. The word ‘hell’ there is ‘hades’. Which means Pluto (name of a being, preferably another name of Satan or his minion), the god of the lower regions, Orcus (a place), the nether world, the realm of the dead. The later use of this word was understood with the meaning grave or death. now, we have to see the context of the verse. if the context being talk about like in Mat 16:18 is referring or associating (and of course clearly) to the rivalry and war of God's Kingdom and the Enemy, then we can therefore conclude that 'Hades' there refers to the kingdom of the Enemy. (this is why context is important and we must not just interpret the scriptures superficially how we understand it, or how we want to understand it.)
And how can we make this Scriptural? .... But these ‘hells’ are different from the hell written in Revelation 19:20 that is the “lake of fire”. The Scripture clearly says that hell is cast into the lake of fire.
If you notice I carefully put quotations there ‘hells’. Because hell is again, an English word without clear definition like Greek and Hebrew texts. If you go to a person and discuss ‘hell’, you can be sure that what comes up to his mind is eternal fire, torment and suffering. Speaking of eternal, that person is talking about ‘geenna’ without real knowledge.
Yup! Death and Hell is thrown into the lake of fire. That means ‘sheol’ and ‘Hades’. It is actually saying that 'sheol' and 'hades' will be thrown in 'geenna'.
The rest, in your own words is speculation, and may I remind you that you said....
The only error is if we hold into our speculations making it as an essential part of our faith.
My friend, you can be sure that I’m keeping my word. I myself am careful with dogmas and heresies.
Dear spitnot, I understand that you may be trying to expound the Scriptures with what you have written, and I hope you can see that what I have done is taken what you have said and seen if it has holes in it... which, it does.
I hope you continue your search for truth on this and other Scripture. May I suggest you keep to the Scriptures when you study them, “For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” and there is enough chaff to be sifted as is, and you don't want to be caught up in false teachings, my friend.
Thank you so much brother Bear. I know you care for the welfare of the saints. But what I posted is pure scripture, in fact more accurate because it’s in the original text. You can be sure also that there are no holes... it's God's very own words, not mine. We all know that those who deliver the scripture, those who teach, those who preach will be judged more strictly. We are accountable for the knowledge we have. what we share could either build or confuse and destroy someone's faith.That’s why we must handle and workout the salvation we received in fear and trembling. “GOD DESTROYS LIARS” Psalms 5:6
lastly, when we read the scriptures, we have to consider a lot of things to get a clearer understanding. the culture of the people, the manner of speech, the Greek and Hebrew text origins, geographical locations, deciphering metaphors and figures of speech (based on the Scripture itself) parallel passages... etc. the most important of all is CONTEXT. we have to determine the boundaries of the verses and its meaning so that we don't just quote and use verses to justify and back up our case and arguments in vain. We know that the Devil did that
to Christ and he's doing it still in our time. people who stand in the pulpit giving 95% or 110% truths. God's word is 100% pure! no one should take or add anything into it.
i understand that if this is new to anyone, no doubt that person will certainly question. i say look it up in the Bible. Study Greek and Hebrew texts. Be guided by the Spirit of God.
God bless you bro.
Walking with Christ,
Spitnot
