Hell and Christianity

[B-A-C]

Hell is temporary. Eventually it gets cast into the lake of fire. ( Rev 20:14; )
Along with everyone who's name is not written in the Book of Life. ( Rev 20:15; )
The people who are in hell (hades) will be taken out of hell before they are thrown into the lake of fire. ( Rev 20:13; )

We can argue about whether ell was created solely for the angels or not... but in the end I'm not sure it matters.
1. Some people will go there, not just angels.
2. For the sake of argument, lets say it is just angels... does God punish angels but not people?
(I do notice that angels are not redeemable)

Does God torture? Is punishment sometimes the same thing as torture?

God allowed Satan to "touch the bone and flesh" of Job ( Job 2:5; )
Satan put sore boils from the sole of his feet to the crown of his head ( Job 2:7; )
The pain of this was very great ( Job 2:13; )

Job wasn't being punished for something he did wrong, God was letting Satan test him. ( Job 1:22; )
In fact it is so painful that Job wishes he was never born ( nearly all of chapter 3 )

In Exod 11:4-5; God says he will go out into the midst of Egypt, and all the firstborn of the Egyptians will die.
Now perhaps God did not torture the babies. But was their torture for their mothers?
There was a great cry in Egypt such as was never heard before and there shall never be again ( Exod 11:6; )

In 1 Cor 5:5; Paul says he is turning a member of the church over to Satan... for the destruction of his flesh,
so that his spirit might be saved....

Yes, God loves us..... that isn't the issue. He loves even sinners... ( Rom 5:8; )
But just because God loves you, doesn't mean you are saved. He loves the un-saved.

The rich man in Luke 16, was in agony and torment... (in Hades) ... Luke 16:23-25;
Hades is not a resort, a rest home, a place to relax.
The rich man has 5 brothers... he wants someone to warn them, so that they will not come to the place of torment ( Luke 16:28; )

In Rev 14... we see an interesting passage.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Those who worship the beast... will drink of the wrath of God... mixed in full strength... in the cup of His anger.
They will be tormented with fire and brimstone... in the presence of the Lamb ( Jesus ).
And their torment goes up forever and ever... they have no rest, day or night.
Anyone who worships the beast and receives his mark on their hand or forehead.

Is punishment the same thing as torture?
God definitely punishes.

In Rev when the judgment bowls are being poured out upon mankind...
(who's judgment? God's judgment!)
Men will be scorched with a fierce heat (fire from the sun) ( Rev 16:8-9; )
Men have loathsome malignant sore on them ( Rev 16:2; )
They will even gnaw on their tongues because of the pain and sores ( Rev 16:10-11; )

... there are dozens more examples... and more verses about the torment being forever... ( Rev 20:10; )

If you want to call it torture... that's up to you. But it is the righteous judgment of God.

God says of Babylon... "to the degree that she glorified herself, to the same degree
I will give her torment". ( Rev 18:7; )

 

[B-A-C]

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.

Heb 10:29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Heb 10:30; For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.”

Heb 10:31; It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[Ophel]

.


2. Just because it was made for satan and the fallen angels does not mean it was not made for us. Australia was a place made for prisoners.

Australia is a continent which is made by God for human inhabitation. You're stretching! It doesn't work for you.

Why is everyone's first assumption of this statement bad? I read it 100% in the other direction. The fact that God is 100% fine with putting humans in a place he originally prepared for angels...means it must have never been a cruel place for them angels in the first place.

You don't make sense. "Them angels" will be crying out and gnashing their own teeth in extreme torment, themselves.

3. That is an assumption. We are able to keep the worst prisoners away from the others, why not God? I believe some fallen angels will have positions of power in hell. But not the devil. Before being thrown into hell, the devil is stripped of all his power before Jesus and the angels.

There will be utter powerlessness in the Lake of Fire.

.

 

[KingJ]

Hell IS real & in no way shape or form does God or will God EVER "torture". He disciplines & punishes who he loves but he would never torture us. I think a lot of us Christians need to step back after reading sometimes. Subjects that seem complicated aren't really. Our human minds have tough times accepting that God is far more advance than we humans have a chance of ever being or understanding for the most part. I was told once (or read it somewhere once) that trying to explain God to a human would be like trying to explain the internet to an ant. I see God's love close to the love I have for my own daughter but he loves us so much more. It's hard to grasp how much our God loves us.

I can defend the fact that God never tortures His enemies. But not us. What Job went through seemed pretty much like torture.It was not discipline. It was not punishment. He left Job at the mercy of the devil to do with as he wished bar taking his life.

I like that internet / ant example. So true. Especially when thinking about His omniscience.

 

[KingJ]

1. Australia is a continent which is made by God for human inhabitation. You're stretching! It doesn't work for you.

2. You don't make sense. "Them angels" will be crying out and gnashing their own teeth in extreme torment, themselves.

3. There will be utter powerlessness in the Lake of Fire..

1.

2. Gnashing teeth in extreme torment. I see you added extreme. Did you watch Oscar Pretorius's trial? He was weeping and gnashing his teeth a plenty in the courtroom, oh and plus drinking lots of drops of water on his tongue.

Weeping and gnashing teeth is not something you expect of someone sitting in lava. I would expect screaming and teeth falling out.

3. Another assumption. You really imagine God making the devil, angels and humans sit in lava for eternity...? I want to ask you four questions please. Please don't dodge them.

i. Would you do that to your enemy (put them in hot burning lava)?
ii. Would you approve of a God that did it to your child that 'just' did not make the cut 1 Pet 4:18?
iii. What would you do to your ''worst'' enemy?
iv. Does your opinion / ability to judge a fair punishment for the evil count for naught now and in heaven? IE God will make us dumb / brainwash us in heaven into thinking people sitting in lava for eternity is a fair punishment.

 

[B-A-C]

i. Would you do that to your enemy (put them in hot burning lava)?
ii. Would you approve of a God that did it to your child that 'just' did not make the cut 1 Pet 4:18?
iii. What would you do to your ''worst'' enemy?
iv. Does your opinion / ability to judge a fair punishment for the evil count for naught now and in heaven? IE God will make us dumb / brainwash us in heaven into thinking people sitting in lava for eternity is a fair punishment.

Questions 1 and 3 seem very similar.
The problem is that we do not judge righteously. I may want a policeman who gave me a ticket for speeding
to burn in hell. However, he didn't do anything wrong, he did his job.
So whether or not I would do it to someone doesn't matter. I am not God.

Would I approve of God?
Does it matter if I approve of Him or not? Do we have to approve of Him in order for Him to be God?
Many people do not approve of Him. Does that make Him less God?

 

[Bendito]

Yea well my friend I am now using the keyboard on the tablet and not the one separate from the tablet on the case. Did not know that I could miss a key board so much. I have about an inch and a half viewing window as I type now and it is slower then slow this way. Lol

Then again.......we both know the truth.......truth truth truth ( echo )

ROFL

 

[Bendito]

1. Please read the post before just replying. Bendito made the statement ''Man can only sin when Satan and his cohorts draws him into it'' The scripture used as support contradicted this.

2. This is completely unrelated to my pt 2. But on this point you made you are wrong. God does whatever pleases Him Psalm 135:6. It pleases Him to place those that hate Him in hell. The fact that He desires all to be saved is a separate issue.

3. There are two verses on this. 1. He lost power when Jesus took the keys / defeated / removed his power in a spiritual sense. 2. He stands before Jesus and the host of angels and is literally stripped of all power.

You said "It pleases Him to place those that hate Him in hell." Maybe your God does..Mine does not...If you're talking about my God when you say this, then I'm done talking with you...You called God a liar and a murderer.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

You said "It pleases Him to place those that hate Him in hell." Maybe your God does..Mine does not...If you're talking about my God when you say this, then I'm done talking with you...You called God a liar and a murderer.

AMEN to that

 

[Bendito]

1. Please read the post before just replying. Bendito made the statement ''Man can only sin when Satan and his cohorts draws him into it'' The scripture used as support contradicted this.

2. This is completely unrelated to my pt 2. But on this point you made you are wrong. God does whatever pleases Him Psalm 135:6. It pleases Him to place those that hate Him in hell. The fact that He desires all to be saved is a separate issue.

3. There are two verses on this. 1. He lost power when Jesus took the keys / defeated / removed his power in a spiritual sense. 2. He stands before Jesus and the host of angels and is literally stripped of all power.

You said 'Please read the post before just replying. Bendito made the statement ''Man can only sin when Satan and his cohorts draws him into it'' The scripture used as support contradicted this.'
The scripture I used says this!! You need to read it before you start to answer...It says clearly that we are Drawn away, tempted..Enticed.....by the use of our desires.

Who is the tempter? Not your desires, it says your desires are the BAIT Who uses that bait against you? Satan is the tempter.
Matt 4:3....1 Thessalonians 3:5
Really my friend....I don't know what bible you use but....

 

[Bendito]

Hell IS real & in no way shape or form does God or will God EVER "torture". He disciplines & punishes who he loves but he would never torture us. I think a lot of us Christians need to step back after reading sometimes. Subjects that seem complicated aren't really. Our human minds have tough times accepting that God is far more advance than we humans have a chance of ever being or understanding for the most part. I was told once (or read it somewhere once) that trying to explain God to a human would be like trying to explain the internet to an ant. I see God's love close to the love I have for my own daughter but he loves us so much more. It's hard to grasp how much our God loves us.

There are those who love to complicate the simple... Thank you for such a good post..

 

[Bendito]

1.

2. Gnashing teeth in extreme torment. I see you added extreme. Did you watch Oscar Pretorius's trial? He was weeping and gnashing his teeth a plenty in the courtroom, oh and plus drinking lots of drops of water on his tongue.

Weeping and gnashing teeth is not something you expect of someone sitting in lava. I would expect screaming and teeth falling out.

3. Another assumption. You really imagine God making the devil, angels and humans sit in lava for eternity...? I want to ask you four questions please. Please don't dodge them.

i. Would you do that to your enemy (put them in hot burning lava)?
ii. Would you approve of a God that did it to your child that 'just' did not make the cut 1 Pet 4:18?
iii. What would you do to your ''worst'' enemy?
iv. Does your opinion / ability to judge a fair punishment for the evil count for naught now and in heaven? IE God will make us dumb / brainwash us in heaven into thinking people sitting in lava for eternity is a fair punishment.

KJ I suggest you go back to the beginning..Right from getting born again...Repentance, surrender and a bit of humility as you subject yourself to the Holy Spirit and let Him teach you...I say this because everything you say seems to come from a head knowledge bible education and not a spirit led education....It's not my intent to offend but I am concerned about you.

 

[Ophel]

I can defend the fact that God never tortures His enemies. But not us. What Job went through seemed pretty much like torture.It was not discipline. It was not punishment. He left Job at the mercy of the devil to do with as he wished bar taking his life.

I like that internet / ant example. So true. Especially when thinking about His omniscience.

You seem to not be able to grasp the fact that God did nothing to Job. Satan was the oppressor. God never left him for a second.

A revision of your view of God and His character is in order for you.

.

 

[Bendito]

You seem to not be able to grasp the fact that God did nothing to Job. Satan was the oppressor. God never left him for a second.

A revision of your view of God and His character is in order for you.

.

God letting Satan sift Job was not a punishment either but an opportunity...For Growth

Look at it...Job hurt a lot no doubt...He learned a lot...He got a lot straightened out with God and he came out of it richer, more healthy, less fear in his life and with a larger family...As well as some good teaching material to pass it along.

 

[Ophel]

2. Gnashing teeth in extreme torment. I see you added extreme. Did you watch Oscar Pretorius's trial? He was weeping and gnashing his teeth a plenty in the courtroom, oh and plus drinking lots of drops of water on his tongue.

...and that has to do with anything...how?

Weeping and gnashing teeth is not something you expect of someone sitting in lava. I would expect screaming and teeth falling out.

Lava, now?

3. Another assumption. You really imagine God making the devil, angels and humans sit in lava for eternity...? I want to ask you four questions please. Please don't dodge them.

i. Would you do that to your enemy (put them in hot burning lava)?
ii. Would you approve of a God that did it to your child that 'just' did not make the cut 1 Pet 4:18?
iii. What would you do to your ''worst'' enemy?
iv. Does your opinion / ability to judge a fair punishment for the evil count for naught now and in heaven? IE God will make us dumb / brainwash us in heaven into thinking people sitting in lava for eternity is a fair punishment.

You have no conception of the Lake of Fire. People who have had God-given visions of a hellish eternity do not describe it in ways that correlate to your cartoonish understanding.


.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

God letting Satan sift Job was not a punishment either but an opportunity...For Growth

Look at it...Job hurt a lot no doubt...He learned a lot...He got a lot straightened out with God and he came out of it richer, more healthy, less fear in his life and with a larger family...As well as some good teaching material to pass it along.

It is not God letting or allowing. Job caused it all by stepping out of faith ( the Blessing ) and what Satan referred to as a protective hedge and Job got out there in Fear doubt and Unbelief and Worry. That opens the door to the decline evry time and God has not one thing to do with it.
God Bless
James

 

[Bendito]

It is not God letting or allowing. Job caused it all by stepping out of faith ( the Blessing ) and what Satan referred to as a protective hedge and Job got out there in Fear doubt and Unbelief and Worry. That opens the door to the decline evry time and God has not one thing to do with it.
God Bless
James

Well.....I have to agree with you..as much as that hurts me...:whistle Job, at one point, said "That which I had feared has come upon me" He was living by fear which is the opposite of faith...Sin...And that did open him up to Satan's attack. What else did he do wrong?
Job 42:3-6. “Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.”

The most important lesson of the book of Job is found in this passage. In these verses, Job reveals the transition from a religious experience shaped by tradition to an experience based on personal understanding to God. According to the tradition in which Job had been reared, the righteous were not supposed to suffer. Job believed that God would deliver the righteous from all evil in this present life. And when Job met suffering, he was thrown into confusion.
Then he accused God of punishing him for nothing....

ob, unaware at the time of the ‘behind the scenes’ dialogue between God and Satan, thought all his problems were a result of God’s discipline. He had stated that he had lived righteously before God and was undeserving of God’s punishment, as if God was unjust in His treatment of him. He had pleaded for an opportunity to appear in court before God. When God finally speaks, He primarily tells of the awesome acts of creation, and His love and care for all that He has made. In doing so, He shows how little understanding Job has of the “bigger picture”. How could Job argue his case with the Creator when he has such limited knowledge?

Job could not question God’s goodness, justice and wisdom. This self-realization led him to deep remorse and repentance from his mistaken attitude toward God.

Job’s experience has taught him the meaning of faith. His vision of God has enabled him to surrender to the divine will. His commitment to God is now unaffected by his circumstances. He no longer expects temporal blessings as an evidence of Heaven’s favor. He now fully trusts in God’s wisdom and dealings.
See? He was given opportunity..

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

@Bendito check this out

BEHOLD he is already in your hand"
We don't use the word Behold much at all these days. I mean when was the last time you heard some one say BEHOLD is not this car beautiful ?

Now if you look up this word "Behold" in any of the translations such as Hebrew or Greek or English or Spanish or any other translation...YOU WILL LEARN that it ALWAYS MEANS " Look and see. Wake up and pay attention"

See God was telling satan that JOB had already opened the door to him or had given satan the right to do as he wanted to do. God was simply telling the devil the truth....Job had already tore down the protective hedge around him ( the blessing of God) when he stepped out into fear and worry and doubt. HOWEVER God did sent a boundary.....spare his life or another words satin could do whatever....EXCEPT....KILL JOB...

The once satan finally grasped that Job had stepped out of or lost the blessing this protective hedge...well you know the story....satin went after job with vengeance.

Then Job ran his mouth complaining about everything but still NEVER CURSED GOD......Funny how this story ends.....God sends a preacher to preach some sense back into job.......AND once Job repented of his errors...God restored the blessing back and Job increased in all.

Now then a couple of things.
It was Job who said God giveth and God taketh away and NOT God but More Christians quote this as scripture.

People argue over God sending Satan because God said job did not sin......truth is job did not sin by cursing God is what scripture is referring to.

blessings brother - just wanted to add an Addy to it. ROFL
james w

 

[KingJ]

You said "It pleases Him to place those that hate Him in hell." Maybe your God does..Mine does not...If you're talking about my God when you say this, then I'm done talking with you...You called God a liar and a murderer.

Yes. David is quite clear that God does whatever pleases Him. Liar and murderer? No, you just not understanding the point I am making or what the bible is trying to say.

The irony of not talking. I should refuse to talk to you 3 because you deal with my God on a promise basis and propose He is going to be eternally cruel to His enemies. IE I think you have mistaken God for satan. Satan deals with his children on a promise basis and would definitely be cruel to us for eternity if he had the opportunity.

 

[KingJ]

...and that has to do with anything...how?.

Lava, now?

Google brimstone.

You have no conception of the Lake of Fire. People who have had God-given visions of a hellish eternity do not describe it in ways that correlate to your cartoonish understanding.

I asked you so nicely to not dodge the questions.

No, Ophel. The visions people see of hell is not scriptural. They all describe a terrible place to GET BOOK SALES. If they described a nice place or a boring place, nobody would be shocked into caring about their vision.

I had a vision of hell. It looked like Earth. I am thinking about writing a book on it. Will you help me raise funds? God gave me a special vision that he gave nobody else. Not even John or Isaiah. I am a stand out Christian. I think God likes me more then others.