Heaven, Hell, Earth, Lake of Fire

[gdemoss]

Good question but since God is out of time they were with God at the foundation with the Lamb.

I don't support the outside the boundaries of time view. I think that it is man made doctrine unsupported by scripture. God the Father and his Son Jesus were together before time began but since the beginning of time there has always been time and always will be. We live and move and have our being inside of his being. Time exists inside of God the Father. He knows the end from the beginning because of his understanding of how everything works, including us.

There are a few scriptures that seem to suggest to me that there is conscious awareness after death and I cannot simply ignore them. Abel's blood being one of them. Lazarus and the rich man another. The dead who Jesus preached to in Peters letter. I have read differing opinions of how others try to explain them away and they fall flat of reason. An interesting thing God does in his Word is personify things. Both Death and Hell have been personified in scripture. In the end they both give up the dead that are in them and we also know of those who are dead in Christ. Could their be some possibility that the places people go when they die and the state of awareness they have be different? One even happens to all but different destinations and states of being? I am beginning to thinks so due to the variety of unconnectable ideas found in scripture. I need to meditate on this a lot more and read, read, read.

Gary

 

[David777]

Hello gdemoss.

God is Eternal. Eternity is not measurable in units of time, how can it be measured.

We invented the clock to measure time or should i say the passing of time. Initially, the seasons were our clock, now we measure time in vibrations of Ceasium atoms.

A time to plant, a time to reap, etc.

What is more enlightening is that time is relative to age.
The older you get the faster it passes.

I do not look at clocks anymore, I am already with Christ.
I have become eternal, I exchanged mortality and watches,
for the immortal.

What is the time sir? Time to turn to Jesus.

 

[gdemoss]

God is Eternal. Eternity is not measurable in units of time, how can it be measured.

We invented the clock to measure time or should i say the passing of time. Initially, the seasons were our clock, now we measure time in vibrations of Ceasium atoms.

A time to plant, a time to reap, etc.

What is more enlightening is that time is relative to age.
The older you get the faster it passes.

I do not look at clocks anymore, I am already with Christ.
I have become eternal, I exchanged mortality and watches,
for the immortal.

What is the time sir? Time to turn to Jesus.

I understand what you say and have experienced much of the same in letting time go. But God invented time, not us.

Enlightening? Yes, that time 'seems' to pass by faster as we get older but it does not do so. Time is time. Tick tick tick....always at the same pace, yet seems to go by fast when you don't pay attention to it.

Even God has to wait for time to play out to get to the end game of being with all who receive eternal life in the end. But he is patient.

Gary

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I think that it is man made doctrine unsupported by scripture.

I have never read any such doctrine,it's just the only way I can make scripture work.

Science is the study of God's handiwork.According to science time is relative to mass and speed and as David777 points out it is also relative to the observer.
God is spirit,there is no mass beginning and no end.
If it ever will be it already is and was.
There is nothing new under the sun.
Think of a computer simulation or role playing game.
All the elements of the game existed on somebodies desk before they ever got converted to binary code and executed in a computer environment.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

I can only fit these verses in an out of time context,unless you can tell me how to interpret them that fits all scripture.

 

[gdemoss]

I can only fit these verses in an out of time context,unless you can tell me how to interpret them that fits all scripture.

I don't understand why your having difficulty seeing these without it having to be "out of time" in context. The most difficult part of these verses is 'made to sit in heavenly with Christ Jesus'. And even it isn't something that happens outside of time. I was dead in trespass and sin but was made alive by the Holy Spirit. As far as sitting with Christ in heavenly goes I can't say I truly understand the dynamics but as I am bound by time so is this sitting that appears to have happened in the past seeing it is all referred to as past tense. Again, I don't understand what you are seeing as a need to be 'outside of time'.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

I don't understand why your having difficulty seeing these without it having to be "out of time" in context. The most difficult part of these verses is 'made to sit in heavenly with Christ Jesus'. And even it isn't something that happens outside of time. I was dead in trespass and sin but was made alive by the Holy Spirit. As far as sitting with Christ in heavenly goes I can't say I truly understand the dynamics but as I am bound by time so is this sitting that appears to have happened in the past seeing it is all referred to as past tense. Again, I don't understand what you are seeing as a need to be 'outside of time'.

You're right "Sitting in Heavenly Places with Christ" is not a time thing. Its a positional thing. You sit at JESUS right hand positionally speaking. You rule with HIM


I too have to ask. What's all this preoccupation with time?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

You're right "Sitting in Heavenly Places with Christ" is not a time thing. Its a positional thing. You sit at JESUS right hand positionally speaking. You rule with HIM

Your right,now tell me when it happened because I personally don't remember.Then please tell me why I need to die to get there if I'm already there.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Your right,now tell me when it happened because I personally don't remember.Then please tell me why I need to die to get there if I'm already there.

No wonder this cross hurts LOL

You were put in that position of ruling with JESUS when he ratified the covenant with FATHER by shedding HIS BLOOD and dying on the cross for you.

No You don't have to die to get there you can stay here in this world forever if you want. NOT! For you my friend dying is not death but stepping from a body of flesh into a body of light. You've already passed through death.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

See? You old thing. You passed away and were reborn a brand new creation.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

No wonder this cross hurts LOL

You were put in that position of ruling with JESUS when he ratified the covenant with FATHER by shedding HIS BLOOD and dying on the cross for you.

No You don't have to die to get there you can stay here in this world forever if you want. NOT! For you my friend dying is not death but stepping from a body of flesh into a body of light. You've already passed through death.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

See? You old thing. You passed away and were reborn a brand new creation.

Ok,I agree and I receive that but the Lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world so I think it happened then.I'm not talking predestination either,I think it's weirder than that.It's not critical to understand but it explains much scripture that just has a hard time fitting in neat little timelines.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Ok,I agree and I receive that but the Lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world so I think it happened then.I'm not talking predestination either,I think it's weirder than that.It's not critical to understand but it explains much scripture that just has a hard time fitting in neat little timelines.

Yah. The only predestination there is is that FATHER planned for HIS family. Just like we do. We build and plan and put plans to work. We don't decide which of our kids will be blonde or which will be the athlete.... but we set up funds for our kids and build our estate to pass on to them. etc

 

[Miss Elly]

I have a cd of a lady that claimes to have seen Heaven and hell over a period by Jesus.She was dressed in white silk and was taken away by an angel(moving not walking) and showed her hell first whereby she explained in detail(horrifying) how people was suffering in this pit of fire also seeing someone she knew that was there already and about the devil's chamber together with his demons, planning how to get people to turn away from God.She was also taken to Heaven again explaining it in the finest detail.How our names were written in the book of life by a golden hand and that each name disappears as it goes along.The rivers as she describes it are crystal clear and you can breathe under water,the grasslands,the golden streets,the soft peasefull light,experiencing real love with our Heavenly Father.She was shown the houses that people were living in(whiteflat roof like in biblical times of Jerusalem).She even saw her daugter that died at an early age.Furthermore she said that there were chambers where all babies were saught after by angels that died either before breath was given to them or at death after being born.She also saw Gods throne whereby she also explaines in detail with his son sitting on his right hand.I could go more into detail about her experience with Heaven and hell but if this is true,that is the place i'd like to be.She could not explain how God showed her this,'cause according to the script it says otherwise.Could this of been the future she saw??.I did some research on others that had near death experiences and some had the same vision and others described it totally different.Heaven decending to earth in a shape of a square etc. etc.This lady also claims to be a very big Christian.She was also given a new Hevenly name by our Father known as Hepzibah and was in her thirties again.Could some of the dead been awaken already?

The new names to be given by God to his saints are known only to him. I would take this "testimony" with a grain of salt.:shock:

 

[Miss Elly]

If you die in Christ before Jesus returns then you sleep.

We sleep until Christ returns, so far so good.

Then the trumpet sounds and we become immortal.

So when we are asleep we are obviously not conscious.

Would not it be true then that a dead individual would have no
awareness of time. Example 100 years would amount to
a mere second say.

Thus, all who die in Christ are simultaneously with those
who are still alive when Christ returns.

There never was really a delay at all.

In conclusion when you die you are with the Lord immediately.

Brakelite supplied the scriptures.

The body sleeps, not the soul. That is what I believe. The soul is always conscious, either in heaven with Jesus or in hell with the rich man.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

The body sleeps, not the soul. That is what I believe. The soul is always conscious, either in heaven with Jesus or in hell with the rich man.

That's Good!! Thanks Miss Elly

 

[David777]

Hello gdemoss.

I am not trying to be difficult regarding time.

Time is relative to the observer gdemoss.

The younger you are the slower it seems.

The older you are the faster it is.

What pace is it really moving at?

It is relates to the observer, it is in the end subjective.

From God's perspective, your hear one day gone the next.

Somewhat like the grass in the field.

Perspective is all.

Time is a relative quantity.

 

[gdemoss]

I am not trying to be difficult regarding time.

Time is relative to the observer gdemoss.

The younger you are the slower it seems.

The older you are the faster it is.

What pace is it really moving at?

It is relates to the observer, it is in the end subjective.

From God's perspective, your hear one day gone the next.

Somewhat like the grass in the field.

Perspective is all.

Time is a relative quantity.

I have to disagree to the point that God was persistent in making periods of time to be certain lengths such as a day, month or year. God governs by time. The Israelites had to wander in the desert 40 years. Jesus had to be tempted 40 days.

The relativity to the 'feel' of time is something completely different and I agree with you that that changes significantly depending upon the circumstances provided. Today was kind of a long day to me while yesterday flew by. Each was a day. A period of light and darkness that takes 24 hours to complete the cycle. The part I slept during seemed to go really fast but in reality it took 7 to 8 hours each day to go by.

Money seems to have the same effect as time. Doesn't go as far as it used to...oh wait that is a whole other story.

 

[Peace Seeker]

The relativity to the 'feel' of time is something completely different and I agree with you that that changes significantly depending upon the circumstances provided. Today was kind of a long day to me while yesterday flew by. Each was a day. A period of light and darkness that takes 24 hours to complete the cycle. The part I slept during seemed to go really fast but in reality it took 7 to 8 hours each day to go by.

Money seems to have the same effect as time. Doesn't go as far as it used to...oh wait that is a whole other story.

I think "time" is a construct that acts much like electrons do. With the latter, the mere act of observing them changes them! When we look at an electron it acts like a particle, when they aren't being observed they act as waves and particles simultaneously.
What I take from this is, when we are looking at time it moves slowly, when we aren't it moves quickly, as in times flies. The space-time continuum plays into this....an object in motion actually experiences time at a slower rate than one at rest, that's why when we're just sitting around time moves slower, whereas it flies when we're moving about and not paying attention to time.

LOL about money. Well, to that I would say money is matter, and matter behaves like a (invisible) wave when it is observed, so maybe that's the answer!!

 

[gdemoss]

I think "time" is a construct that acts much like electrons do. With the latter, the mere act of observing them changes them! When we look at an electron it acts like a particle, when they aren't being observed they act as waves and particles simultaneously.
What I take from this is, when we are looking at time it moves slowly, when we aren't it moves quickly, as in times flies. The space-time continuum plays into this....an object in motion actually experiences time at a slower rate than one at rest, that's why when we're just sitting around time moves slower, whereas it flies when we're moving about and not paying attention to time.

LOL about money. Well, to that I would say money is matter, and matter behaves like a (invisible) wave when it is observed, so maybe that's the answer!!

Wow, you have gotten over my head. I am unlearned and ignorant about electrons nor do I know how to observe one...lol. Then you have to go into the space-time continuum thing....was that in Job or Esther?

 

[Peace Seeker]

Wow, you have gotten over my head. I am unlearned and ignorant about electrons nor do I know how to observe one...lol. Then you have to go into the space-time continuum thing....was that in Job or Esther?

I thought it was in the new testament!! :wink:

 

[gdemoss]

I thought it was in the new testament!! :wink:

I think your right, I am thinking that it is in Revelation but it just hasn't been revealed to me yet.

Gary:shade:

 

[Peace Seeker]

I think your right, I am thinking that it is in Revelation but it just hasn't been revealed to me yet.

Gary:shade:

....... Revelation, or nor revelation, that is the question.....so now we've gone from a continuum to a conundrum!