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Have you felt like giving up lately?

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A number of ministers have written to me expressing their concern for parishioners who are simply giving up. “Good honest Christians are so overwhelmed by guilt and condemnation that it causes despair. When they can’t live up to their own expectations, when they fall back into sin, they decide to give up….”

Growing numbers of Christians are at the breaking point. Few Christians would even dare entertain thoughts of quitting on their love for Jesus, but in despair they consider giving up on themselves.

Some ministers today continually preach only a positive message. To hear them tell it, every Christian is receiving miracles, everybody is getting instant answers to prayer; everybody is feeling good, living well, and the whole world is bright and rosy. I love to hear that kind of preaching because I really desire all those good and healthy things for God’s people. But that’s not the way things are for a great number of very honest, sincere Christians.

No wonder our young people give up in defeat. They can’t live up to the image, created by religion, of a carefree, rich, successful, always positive-thinking Christian. Their world is not that ideal; they live with heartbreaks, hour-by-hour crises, and family problems.

Paul talked about trouble: “…trouble which came to us…we were pressed out of [burdened beyond] measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life” (see 2 Corinthians 1:8).

Positive thinking won’t make these problems go away and “confessing” that these problems don’t really exist doesn’t change a thing. What is the cure? There are two absolutes that have brought me great comfort and help.

• God loves me. He is a loving Father wanting only to lift us out of our weakness.

• It is my faith that pleases him most. He wants me to trust him.


David Wilkerson
 
Member
A number of ministers have written to me expressing their concern for parishioners who are simply giving up. “Good honest Christians are so overwhelmed by guilt and condemnation that it causes despair. When they can’t live up to their own expectations, when they fall back into sin, they decide to give up….”

Growing numbers of Christians are at the breaking point. Few Christians would even dare entertain thoughts of quitting on their love for Jesus, but in despair they consider giving up on themselves.

Some ministers today continually preach only a positive message. To hear them tell it, every Christian is receiving miracles, everybody is getting instant answers to prayer; everybody is feeling good, living well, and the whole world is bright and rosy. I love to hear that kind of preaching because I really desire all those good and healthy things for God’s people. But that’s not the way things are for a great number of very honest, sincere Christians.

No wonder our young people give up in defeat. They can’t live up to the image, created by religion, of a carefree, rich, successful, always positive-thinking Christian. Their world is not that ideal; they live with heartbreaks, hour-by-hour crises, and family problems.

Paul talked about trouble: “…trouble which came to us…we were pressed out of [burdened beyond] measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life” (see 2 Corinthians 1:8).

Positive thinking won’t make these problems go away and “confessing” that these problems don’t really exist doesn’t change a thing. What is the cure? There are two absolutes that have brought me great comfort and help.

• God loves me. He is a loving Father wanting only to lift us out of our weakness.

• It is my faith that pleases him most. He wants me to trust him.


David Wilkerson

Who said, God wants this and that for us????

Thought it was Jesus who said, "in the world you will have tribulation, but take heart, I have overcome the world.
Christ and his work justify the unrighteous so I take heart, knowing that my poor efforts at Godliness aren't the basis of my salvation.
The things of the world and the love of them will only take us away from godly devotion, and a lack of sincerity toward our neighbour.
The world and its lusts are passing, and soon, have no doubt.
 
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Member
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

But many might feel they cannot live up to the churches here expect ion!


I personal hate to hear preachers , preaching tithes!

God loves a cheerful giver its true! better to give than receive, it true!

but, He expects us to take care of our families first!

Many churches ,not all. Want to use people to build there own kingdoms!
the ones willing to follow that type church teachings and put there families last are blessed by that group?

Those that follow Jesus and are taught by the Holy Ghost are banned or not counted as much?

There is no place to go, if we want life eternal!

I heard the pastor where i go say? If anyone wants to sale there home and all they have and they can bring the money here to me!

I almost jumped up and said , No one here ever do that!
Maybe I should have!

Hope no one was that foolish!

Listen we are All going to have problems in this world! This is NOT our home!The world will never accept us as worth anything!
They hated our LORD and they will hate us!
still we love them and want all to come to the Son of GOD and have salvation!

Rom 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

1Ti 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

We give the gospel of our LORD and be kind to them! But we do not hang with them any more than we must?

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Some allow all kinds of evil in there homes and lives . Not understanding it going to have a bad affect on them and there families!


Many scriptures are never preached in some churches!
Hard to say if some are hiding the true or just do not know?

but I thank god for all churches that preach JESUS CHRIST and HIS CROSS!
We do not follow people any way!
But the bible teaches there is a great falling away before the end of this age!


Many are called few chosen!
I think we should go to church ! If not for any other reason? To bring light into it!

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Everything we see will be gone one day! None of it is eternal !
What is important is the ETERNAL things!
 
Member
We are living in those dry days the Lord mentioned just prior, the church of Laodicia.

Sometimes I wonder if the biblical saying of 'Come out from among them" isn't more appropriate than the statement that ' they went out from among us, proving they were never of us'.
That might have been so in the days of the early church, but the pure gospel message is rare these days, so coming out might be more necessary than remaining, in some circumstances.

God Bless,
Keep up the perseverence. Ps. your're correct about the tithing thing as well,
we could discuss that if you would like.
It can be a lengthy subject as somuch has been written to justify its preaching. But its easily falsified.
 
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Member
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

But many might feel they cannot live up to the churches here expect ion!


I personal hate to hear preachers , preaching tithes!

God loves a cheerful giver its true! better to give than receive, it true!

but, He expects us to take care of our families first!

Many churches ,not all. Want to use people to build there own kingdoms!
the ones willing to follow that type church teachings and put there families last are blessed by that group?

Those that follow Jesus and are taught by the Holy Ghost are banned or not counted as much?

There is no place to go, if we want life eternal!

I heard the pastor where i go say? If anyone wants to sale there home and all they have and they can bring the money here to me!

I almost jumped up and said , No one here ever do that!
Maybe I should have!

Hope no one was that foolish!

Listen we are All going to have problems in this world! This is NOT our home!The world will never accept us as worth anything!
They hated our LORD and they will hate us!
still we love them and want all to come to the Son of GOD and have salvation!

Rom 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

1Ti 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

We give the gospel of our LORD and be kind to them! But we do not hang with them any more than we must?

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Some allow all kinds of evil in there homes and lives . Not understanding it going to have a bad affect on them and there families!


Many scriptures are never preached in some churches!
Hard to say if some are hiding the true or just do not know?

but I thank god for all churches that preach JESUS CHRIST and HIS CROSS!
We do not follow people any way!
But the bible teaches there is a great falling away before the end of this age!


Many are called few chosen!
I think we should go to church ! If not for any other reason? To bring light into it!

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Everything we see will be gone one day! None of it is eternal !
What is important is the ETERNAL things!
Sorry but Jesus did not say we take care of our families first before God. In fact He said the opposite.

Matthew 6:33 (Amplified Bible)

33But seek ([a]aim at and strive after) first of all His kingdom and His righteousness ([b]His way of doing and being right), and then all these things [c]taken together will be given you besides.


Pastors should do a lot more of teaching about tithing and sowing and reaping. Many people are struggling and will continue to struggle financially because of how greedy they are with their money. If you want God taking care of your house, start taking care of His. Jesus never said you put your family before God. He was explicitly clear that if we seek God's kingdom first and His righteousness, He'll provide us everything else that we need. And that's tantamount to He will take care of our every need. Millions of Christians don't even think about God on pay day. Where's God's tenth going on pay day? Being spent on themselves. God isn't mocked. He knows whose providing Him the tithe and who isn't.

God's kingdom on earth has plenty of needs. It takes plenty of money to preach the gospel. And many Christians talk real big about being a giver but just check the receipts of what non-tithers give back to God. It will make you cry. This stuff is not ok with God. Its certainly ok with believers who make up every excuse in the book not to give God what is His. Then Christians wonder why they are broke and struggling financially. Tithe and bring offerings to the Lord and expect a 100fold return. Name your seed. It will produce. Tithing is bulletproof. Sowing and reaping is bulletproof. The devil will devour your money so much faster and all of your things of you keep the tithe. Why do you think God boldly declared that he would rebuke the devil off of you if you brought Him His tithe? These things are so basic. If God asks us to do something, it always has a blessing in mind. If God is truly Lord of your life, then He comes first in everything. Back it with actions. Don't just talk the talk how he is and then cling to yoiur money with a vice grip. People who do not tithe or bring offerings to the Lord and sow are to be expected to always be broke. Abraham tithed under grace and that was the key to his prosperity. Well because of Jesus' perfect work we are blessed with the blessing of Abraham. We are back under a grace covenant. Well over 400 years before God put tithing into the Law, Abraham was tithing to the Lord while he was under grace. Why do Christians dismiss this biblical fact? Answer: Because they are cheap, and they just see their money going to the church where as they should be seeing God receiving their tithe in Heaven. God is not out to steal your money. But the devil sure is out to steal your blessing from tithing. We have a great famine coming. You better be invested in God's financial system. Stop thinking like worldy people and start meditating on why God wants us to tithe.

And make no mistake the tithe belongs to God. Its always been His and the Lord declares it so! And Jesus took our poverty at the Cross. There's no excuse not to bring the Lord what is His.

Leviticus 27:30
30And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's; it is holy to the Lord.(A)

2 Corinthians 8:9 says:
For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.

 
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One of the saddest things going on within Christianity today is that we so many Christians who do absolutely nothing for the kingdom of God. They won't give a dollar for the preaching of the Word nor are they willing to fund any kind of projects. So many Christians deceive themselves thinking that they are doing something by sitting in a service or speaking about the Word among Christians. We have so many pastors, preachers, teachers, etc. doing the bulk of the work in terms of preaching the gospel while millions sit back and do nothing for the kingdom. One of the best ways to get involved in God's kingdom is to put some of your money into it. God will bless you for it. Everybody's heart is where their money is. Just watch how upset people get when you start talking about tithing and about how little they give to the Lord. In many churches, 10% - 15% of the members carry the fiancial needs of the church. While the other 85% come there to get spiritually fed and do nothing to support God's house. God is not ok with this. God will multiply any seed you put into the ground. Anything you put into Jesus' hands gets multiplied and Jesus is the High Priest of the faith. he is the fullness of what Melchizedek was a shadow of. I think a lot of Christians must think that God is a counterfeiter and when money is needed he simply drops it from Heaven. And He does not. One of the most important ways of contributing to the kingdom is by putting money into it. The devil is always quick to put that dumb thought in people's mind, "the church only wants your money." The devil is only after the theft of your blessing. The devil has more faith in God's Word than most Christians. If Christians learn to believe God's Word they wouldnt be so sick, so poor and all dying prematurely. Yapping about God among believers and quoting verses to each other on Christian sites does very little for the kingdom of God. Most of what i see within Christianity today is constant preaching of defeat, condemnation, guilt, preaching that God makes people sick and poor and that you can't approach God for deliverance. Thankfully many Christians are out there preaching the true gospel of grace which many have never heard before. If you need a miracle in any area of your life, then judge God faithful and do what he tells you to do in the Word. A lot of Christians don't see the Word come to pass because they do what the Word tells them to do. Tithing and The Lord's Supper are not rituals. God didn't bring us religion. He has us do those two things because they release tremendous power in our bodies and life. But only those who are actually humble and believe God's Word, see those blessings manifest. And how the world defines humility is incredibly different from how God defines humility.
 
Member
We are not under compulsion to provide a weekly portion of our pay to anyone, it was for freedom sake that Christ set us free, and we are not to be caught up in obligatory legalistic giving of a set amount, because it brings judging of performance, that's why God removed the law from us, so we would not become self righteous judges.

Give freely and liberally, yes, but legalistically applied rules about money is the game false shepherds play. (the 10%ers) God loves a cheerful giver, so don't take away the joy of people like a pharisee.

If you read Acts, the Jerusalem Council, Acts 15, would've gone into all that stuff, circumcision and the Jewish requirements of the worshipper. (the judaisers)
And what did they come up with, being more concerned with the salvation of the gentiles, didn't require circumcision, and obviously tithing got the boot to!!!
 
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1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.


Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Mans out to steal the money1 God could care less about our money! It people who say what God wants from us using it for them selves mostly!

tithing not of the new testament!

it a scam in the new testament


2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.


Num 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit:

Num 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD'S heave offering to Aaron the priest.


Deu 26:12 When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite,


Only the levites Were allowed to collect tithes .

But man thought wow this is a good scam lets keep getting people to pay 105 Why trust in FAITH ? They might not Give? who can trust in FAITH?

We are not jews were never jews and certainly not levite priests!
any way we do not live under the old testament !
the new testament is Jesus Christ!

It a big lie !


The new testament tells us how to give!


2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

eb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.


2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law,

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

LOVE fulfills the LAW! It does not take Money, it takes LOVE and Faith
those the Only laws HE writes in our heart !

Our reasons are Very important !
Do we do it out of LOVE? Or Force?
tithing was force! a commandment! Love is willingly wanting to give where ever He leads us?

Not because some person here tells us what to give where to give it who to help what to think!

But many mean well and think it pleases GOD to follow some person here!
Many who are Not even BORN _AGAIN ?

That is why we have all these different church saying there the one with the truth ! this division is NOT GODS Will !


It sad the bondage many are in!
I feel sorry for them !

I heard a lot of testimonies of people losing there jobs and everything they had ,even there families!
They wonder why GOD let them down! After all they paid tithes faithfully And now They are Down and out!

God did not lie to them . there pastor did!
I believe in giving!

Gal 5:12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;


The church I go too, that mans become very rich off the church! He was a poor man when He started it ! his home was worth over $800.000 .
I do not mind that ,That is between Him and the LORD.
I still give there !
but not tithing. I give out of LOVE and whatever happens to the Money is between them and the LORD! But i put my family first !
I count them GODS kids ! Me just a baby sitter! For HIM


I think most everyone gives where i go to church?
 
Member
That's why the New Testament doesn't require us to tithe, we do not live in old testament Israel supporting the Tribe of Levi and the Temple sacrafice requirements, that's why I said, Christ has come and freed worshippers from all that obligationary stuff that was only a shadow of the sacrifice of Christ.

To introduce legalisms, or principles, law, (all means the same thing) to extract 'more money' out of Gods people than they wish to freely give is an assalt on the sacrifice of Christ himself who died to free us from the law.
Even so we could be forgiven ( grace forgiveness).

And don't give me that Abraham tithes excuse these charlatans like to use to back up their own greed, there were two covenents in Abrahams life, think about it, the spiritual Jerusalem is free, 'those belonging to the spiritual Jerusalem that is.
As scripture says, none are justified by law. (that's any law) Read Galatians.

My advice is stop giving your hard earned to Mr 800,000 dollar house, he's got enough, and start looking for that little person doing it hard that's ignored or looked down upon, and bless him, then you'll prove yourself unbiased and impartial, I'm sure you could find someone.
'Remember what Jesus said,' because you didn't do it to the least of these, you didn't do it to me! 'The least of', and who do you consider the least in your congregation?
 
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We are not under compulsion to provide a weekly portion of our pay to anyone, it was for freedom sake that Christ set us free, and we are not to be caught up in obligatory legalistic giving of a set amount, because it brings judging of performance, that's why God removed the law from us, so we would not become self righteous judges.

Give freely and liberally, yes, but legalistically applied rules about money is the game false shepherds play. (the 10%ers) God loves a cheerful giver, so don't take away the joy of people like a pharisee.

If you read Acts, the Jerusalem Council, Acts 15, would've gone into all that stuff, circumcision and the Jewish requirements of the worshipper. (the judaisers)
And what did they come up with, being more concerned with the salvation of the gentiles, didn't require circumcision, and obviously tithing got the boot to!!!
Tithing is not a work. Praying is not a work. Partaking of the Lord's Supper is not a work. Speaking in tongues is not a work. Worshipping is not a work. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were never commanded to tithe yet each of them did. Each of them lived under grace, not Law. You may want to do a word study in Hebrew. Tithe in Hebrew is MASSR. The word rich.wealthy in Hebrew translates to ASSR. This is not a coincidence by God. The rich is hidden right in the tithe. That was the key to Abraham's prosperity. And he was incredibly wealthy. When you tithe you are recognizing God as your source. And millions of Christians show where their heart is and who they see as their source of prosperity when they don't give God what is His. Its costing you and millions buddy. No one was blessed for tithing under Law, but Abraham was blessed for tithing under grace.

Just read the Genesis accoutn carefully. Melchizedek comes to Abraham with bread and wine (shadow of the Lord's Supper). And Abraham responds by immediately giving him a tithe, FROM ALL THE SPOILS of his victory. Those spoils were increase. And what happens after Abraham tithes? The Lord becomes HIS SHIELD, HIS EXCEEDINGLY great REWARD! Its incredible the kind of wonderful truths the Lord hides in the OT about what we need to be doing in the New Covenant. The things is that millions of Christians have a poverty spirit, a cheap spirit. They think because they are saved that they're doing everything they should be doing. Failing to tithe or do all the other things that God REQUESTS you to do, doesn't take away your salvation but it costs you in this life and the next.

Why are Christians looking for God to command anything under a grace covenant? Why are Christians operating with a Law mentality under grace? Christians keep loookign for a commandment to tithe while all the time forgetting that God doesn't command you to do anything under grace other than to love people. Yet we still do things like praise and worship and take the Lord's Supper, etc. because its what God wants us doing for our benefit. A poverty spirit does not belong in any Christian. And one way of honoring the Lord is with our posessions. Make up all the excuses you want but its clear that the Lord is not Lord over all your life. It seems that you see yourself as your source for your salary rather than God. And of course when a Christian has that kind of a worldly mentality, well that's why they can't give God what is His. Its an ungodly spirit to have and we need money to get things done down here. Let's face it folks, the average Christian isn't doing much to preach the gospel. We have a few doing all the work and millions of Christians running their mouth on the internet and public about their ministries and what they don't like. Rather than sow into ministries that are good ground and that preach the Word, we have millions fo Christians spending God's tithe and acting like He is ok with this while His kingdom business suffers.

I'm always going to be a tither because Jesus multiplies anything you put in His hands. And if I take care of God's house, God is taking care of me and my family. I'm never going to lack in my house and who doesn't want to give to God? Way too many Christians are just like the people of the world. They just look at their money going somewhere in the natural where as they should be seeing God receiving their gift.

I've said it many times on this site and will continue to say it. If you look at every case where Christians are broke, struggling financially or not seeing the incredible blessing of Abraham the common denominator you'll find is these folks do not tithe, do not bring offerings to the Lord and do not sow frequently. Money is seed. Put something in the ground. Once you tithe, God opens the windows of Heaven and rebukes the devil off of you. Bring the Lord offerings and sow for more increase. This is basic Bible 101. Just turn to Malachi. God declares that if you don't bring Him his tithe and offerings you are robbing Him. Yep go right ahead and pretend that its not in your Bible. And God did not declare those words when He was giving the Law. You better rememeber that. He never said those words when He gave the Law!!! That's well after the Law was already given. So is God a big liar? Or are you just another excuse maker that loves your money so much that you can't give God his tenth? I think its the latter.
 
Member
No wonder our young people give up in defeat. They can’t live up to the image, created by religion, of a carefree, rich, successful, always positive-thinking Christian. Their world is not that ideal; they live with heartbreaks, hour-by-hour crises, and family problems.

David Wilkerson
I've just seen a book title that I can't wait to read: "Radical - Taking your faith back from the American Dream" by David Platt. There are lots of churches where the gospel has been merged with the American Dream and, as a result, for many Christians, the American Dream has become the American Nightmare.

I live in a county that has seen major growth in its upper middle class population over the last twenty years, many of the families depending on two incomes to finance their lifestyles. They were young families - "10 feet tall and bullet proof" as it were - and they were doing fine until the mortgage crisis hit in 2007 followed by a major ongoing recession.

Many jobs were lost. Hundreds of homes went into foreclosure. Some folks were able to renegotiate their mortgage agreements and get lower monthly payments, but many of these still defaulted and lost their homes.

As a whole, America was on an unsustainable upward credit spending binge for many years. We abused credit cards and the resulting debt nearly destroyed us. Yet, I don't remember any sustained effort by the church to try to stanch the bleeding until it was almost too late.

Finally, church programs such as Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University are coming out and people are paying attention and changing their habits! A new consumer mantra is being heard - "If you can't pay cash, you probably don't need it!"

SLE
 
Member
I've just seen a book title that I can't wait to read: "Radical - Taking your faith back from the American Dream" by David Platt. There are lots of churches where the gospel has been merged with the American Dream and, as a result, for many Christians, the American Dream has become the American Nightmare.

I live in a county that has seen major growth in its upper middle class population over the last twenty years, many of the families depending on two incomes to finance their lifestyles. They were young families - "10 feet tall and bullet proof" as it were - and they were doing fine until the mortgage crisis hit in 2007 followed by a major ongoing recession.

Many jobs were lost. Hundreds of homes went into foreclosure. Some folks were able to renegotiate their mortgage agreements and get lower monthly payments, but many of these still defaulted and lost their homes.

As a whole, America was on an unsustainable upward credit spending binge for many years. We abused credit cards and the resulting debt nearly destroyed us. Yet, I don't remember any sustained effort by the church to try to stanch the bleeding until it was almost too late.

Finally, church programs such as Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University are coming out and people are paying attention and changing their habits! A new consumer mantra is being heard - "If you can't pay cash, you probably don't need it!"

SLE


What's that got to do with the price of fish??

Funny how you don't apply this mantra to the capped teeth brigade of tele-evangelists and the like, who demand financial support for another outrageous prosperity gospel message!

They ought to be the first to repent. And I hear that the Corporations are doing just fine.
 
Member
And don't give me that Abraham tithes excuse these charlatans like to use to back up their own greed,
My advice is stop giving your hard earned to Mr 800,000 dollar house, he's got enough,
I liking what you were saying until you crossed over into mud-slinging. Could you give us some examples of who these charlatans and Mr 800,000 dollar house are? Remember, slander is a violation of the 9th Commandment.

SLE
 
Member
I liking what you were saying until you crossed over into mud-slinging. Could you give us some examples of who these charlatans and Mr 800,000 dollar house are? Remember, slander is a violation of the 9th Commandment.

SLE
Mr I've now got an $800,000 house! see spirit1st post page1, that's what I was referring to.

And don't start saying I'm mud-slinger, sorry! but I do get pretty angry when I see brothers in Christ ill informed by ego-centric empire builders, trying to use the scriptures to rip'em off for their hard earned, without allowing them to be the judges of what they themselves can afford, as Paul said they should do.

And I honestly believe God himself, is very angry with anyone who dares to intimidate those that he loves, he loves us although we are weak,and have faults, that's why he died, to accept those that couldn't be righteous enough in themselves. (the chosen)
As Paul said, his grace is sufficient for me, and I personally will take that stand.

If the giving of money is your standard of measure, you go for it!
 
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