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Hating the sin

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Loyal
Rev 2:6; 'Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

If we read the book of Ephesians, it seems that the church in Ephesus wasn't doing so bad. This book was written while John the apostle was alive. John of course wrote the book of John, but he also wrote four other
books in the new Testament, the most of anyone except Paul. Yet while John was still alive Jesus tells him this about the church in Ephesians.

Rev 2:4; 'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love.

He goes on to say that unless they repent he will remove their lampstand.

but despite all of that... the church does have something gong for them.

They hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans... which Jesus says He also hates. Jesus doesn't say He hates the Nicolaitans themselves... but He does say He hates their deeds.

There of course has been much speculation and debate over who the Nicolaitans were, and I won't try to answer that question here, but the fact is... Jesus hated what they were doing. (whatever it was).

Jesus may love everyone. But it seems He hates some of the things they do.
The word in the Greek here is "miseo".. to detest, to hate.

Not only that.. He gives credit to the church for hating the things they do also.
Apparently it's a good thing, if the church hates some of the deeds that evil people do.
 
Loyal
When one of my sons was younger... I think maybe around 8 or 9.. he informed me that he "hated" broccoli.
I tried to make him eat it sometimes, but it sure was a battle. He did like other green vegetables, so after
a while I didn't try to force him to eat them.

He is in his 30's now. He told me not long ago... "I still hate broccoli". He says he hasn't eaten it since he was
a child living with me. I guess we don't do the things we hate, unless we absolutely have to.

I know some Christians.. when you talk to them, they say things like... I hate it that I smoke. I hate it that I eat too much.
I hate it that I look at pornography. I hate it that I go drinking and gambling at the Casino. But yet they keep on doing these
things. Sometimes for years and years. I ask myself... if they hate it... why do they keep on doing it?
The answer is usually... they don't really hate it. They like it. (maybe even love it). It we hated it... we wouldn't do it anymore.
It really is that simple.

Now the hard part is... how do you learn to hate something that you have loved for most of your life. You've put a lot of time
and money and effort into doing this thing. You wouldn't have done that if you didn't love it. You've tried to keep it a secret
from your spouse, and Christians friends for a long time... you have put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into "loving" this sin.

If you really get down to brass tacks... you love this thing more you love Jesus or in some cases, even your spouse.
I'm not really judging anyone here... I have been there too.

Maybe this is you. Maybe you've tried to fight it. Maybe you've tried so many times to let it go. Maybe you've even said to yourself
"I hate it". But do you? Do you really hate it? Or do you just hate the fact that you do it?

Maybe this doesn't work for everyone... but one of things tha helped me here was.... I changed the way I prayed.
I was in a viscious circle. God help me stop... then I do it.. God help me stop.. then I do it. rinse and repeat...
God was helping me stop. But I still loved it. So I started praying for God to help me hate it. To "detest" it. For me... this is one
of the things that worked.
 
Loyal
I remember being addicted to drugs I hated myself and I quit doing them every morning but by afternoon I was back at it again. I think the reason people hate something but yet still do it is because of the chains of bondage around them that only Jesus Christ can brake you free of. I could not quit with out Jesus Christ, Now my skin crawls when I think of that life style that I used to live because Jesus Christ came and changed my heart and changed my nature. I could never do these things on my own.
 
Active
The answer is usually... they don't really hate it. They like it. (maybe even love it). It we hated it... we wouldn't do it anymore.
It really is that simple.
I don't agree. We live in an environment where temptation visits us daily. And if not temptation, our mind and weakness of the flesh. We can give in to something we hate daily. The only issue is if it is a little fly we swallow or a big camel. Venial sins are constant battles. Mortal sins show a depth of intent that does cause God to question our devotion. Giving up the fight on venial sins can also be a mortal sin.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

If you really get down to brass tacks... you love this thing more you love Jesus or in some cases, even your spouse. I'm not really judging anyone here... I have been there too.
Let's focus on our spouse. If I think immorally of another woman, do I Iove her more then my wife? No. It is a momentary weakness where I am oblivious to all but a need for filling a momentary weakness of the flesh. This can after a while of not fighting it, materialize into an affair. An affair, where I fall in love with another woman, yes. That is loving someone more then my wife. We must urge people to daily fight venial sins. Not give in and stop the fight. Fast from the internet. But also don't beat yourself up too much. Venial sins we all commit and venial sins are venial sins.

Matt 5:28 - If we think of another woman we have sinned.
Matt 5:32 - If our spouse is actually with another, we may get a divorce.

Maybe this is you. Maybe you've tried to fight it. Maybe you've tried so many times to let it go. Maybe you've even said to yourself
"I hate it". But do you? Do you really hate it? Or do you just hate the fact that you do it?
Maybe this doesn't work for everyone... but one of things tha helped me here was.... I changed the way I prayed.
I was in a viscious circle. God help me stop... then I do it.. God help me stop.. then I do it. rinse and repeat...
God was helping me stop. But I still loved it. So I started praying for God to help me hate it. To "detest" it. For me... this is one
of the things that worked.
I witness with this. Prayer for help on our free will choices can never help. We cannot ask God to ''coerce'' us into not sinning. But as you say, prayer for God to help us understand better and more frequently why it is that He hates it, that can work.

That is why as we grow closer to the Lord we sin less. As our mind is renewed to see things through His eyes.
 
Active
I don't agree. We live in an environment where temptation visits us daily. And if not temptation, our mind and weakness of the flesh. We can give in to something we hate daily. The only issue is if it is a little fly we swallow or a big camel. Venial sins are constant battles. Mortal sins show a depth of intent that does cause God to question our devotion. Giving up the fight on venial sins can also be a mortal sin.
By delineating one sin as worse than another you set yourself up for destruction.
Thankfully, God has enabled us to live without any sin by allowing us to die for past sins with Christ. (1 Tim 5:24)...during our "immersion" into Jesus' death. (Rom 6:3-6)
The results of killing the old man is.. "For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
 
Active
By delineating one sin as worse than another you set yourself up for destruction.
Have you read 1 Cor 5? It starts with this: 1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this?
 
Active
Have you read 1 Cor 5? It starts with this: 1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this?
The same "rule" would apply to any man who lies, or steals.
If they won't quit serving themselves, and start serving God, they are "out".
Sin manifests that they are not born of God's seed, and in actuality were never part of the church. (1 John 3:10)
 
Loyal
Let's focus on our spouse. If I think immorally of another woman, do I Iove her more then my wife? No. It is a momentary weakness where I am oblivious to all but a need for filling a momentary weakness of the flesh. This can after a while of not fighting it, materialize into an affair. An affair, where I fall in love with another woman, yes. That is loving someone more then my wife.
The problem there is that you are not focusing on your spouse. Otherwise, you wouldn't think immorally of another woman. Jesus said that if you lust after a woman you have committed adultery in your heart. Adultery is adultery. It is cheating on your wife. It is loving yourself above your wife, and it is preferring your lust over your wife, even at the sacrifice of your wife. And, believe me, it hurt like crazy every time I saw my husband lusting after another female. And, I believe most women feel the same. You hit the nail on the head when you said you were oblivious to all, including oblivious to your wife and to the damage you might do to her heart. Although it may not be at the same level as having an extra-marital affair, it is no less damaging to your wife's heart. It is stomping on her heart every time you give in to your lust and you prefer you and your lust, which is not a need, over her. If you don't fight the lust, in the power of God's Spirit within you, and you continually yield to your lust, that is loving your lust more than your wife. Your lust, thus, becomes the other woman with whom you are having an affair. And, you are correct in saying that this can lead to other things, and it often does, too. And, many marriages are being destroyed because of it, too. Mine was. But, I am still holding out for a miracle.
 
Loyal
If I think immorally of another woman, do I Iove her more then my wife? No. It is a momentary weakness where I am oblivious to all but a need for filling a momentary weakness of the flesh.
What does loving someone have to do with sexual immorality? Sex is not love. Love is not sex. This is a major lie of the homosexual community.
God doesn't care who you love. He cares who you sleep with. (even if it's only in your mind).
 
Active
1. What does loving someone have to do with sexual immorality? 2. Sex is not love. Love is not sex. 3. This is a major lie of the homosexual community.
4. God doesn't care who you love. He cares who you sleep with. (even if it's only in your mind).
1. In the example of adultery, everything. Your heart moves on when you desire a continuous affair. It does not move on if it is a once off mortal sin mistake. Or a venial sin.

Just think about how you believe a Christian can lose their salvation / first love. How does that happen? By giving in continuously to sin, especially if it's mortal sins. I draw an identical parallel to a marriage relationship. Our hearts move on from a love for God.

2. It can be. The question is always 'who we love'. Love for God is to hate sexual immorality Rom 12:9. God sends people to hell because they love wickedness / the darkness John 3:19.

3. Homosexuals can love each other. They just don't love God. They love themselves, their partner and what God hates (wickedness) more.

4. I get your point and I agree. I just don't agree with your wording. God does care whom we love. He just wants us to love Him too / first and foremost.

As to 'he cares who you sleep with (even If its only in the mind)'. Yes and No. Yes, in that He hates all sin. No, in that not all sin is sin. God did not obliterate Sodom because people thought about doing wicked things. 1 Cor 5:1 is not talking about someone who thought about sleeping with their fathers wife.
 
Active
The problem there is that you are not focusing on your spouse. Otherwise, you wouldn't think immorally of another woman. Jesus said that if you lust after a woman you have committed adultery in your heart. Adultery is adultery. It is cheating on your wife. It is loving yourself above your wife, and it is preferring your lust over your wife, even at the sacrifice of your wife. And, believe me, it hurt like crazy every time I saw my husband lusting after another female. And, I believe most women feel the same. You hit the nail on the head when you said you were oblivious to all, including oblivious to your wife and to the damage you might do to her heart. Although it may not be at the same level as having an extra-marital affair, it is no less damaging to your wife's heart. It is stomping on her heart every time you give in to your lust and you prefer you and your lust, which is not a need, over her. If you don't fight the lust, in the power of God's Spirit within you, and you continually yield to your lust, that is loving your lust more than your wife. Your lust, thus, becomes the other woman with whom you are having an affair. And, you are correct in saying that this can lead to other things, and it often does, too. And, many marriages are being destroyed because of it, too. Mine was. But, I am still holding out for a miracle.
Sorry to hear and praying for that miracle!

I agree that any lusting after another hurts. But we do have to grasp that when Jesus says thoughts = adultery, He did not intend for people to get divorced because of only thoughts. He is clear about this in Matt 5:32. We should never teach Matt 5:28 without it.
 
Active
1. The same "rule" would apply to any man who lies, or steals.
If they won't quit serving themselves, and start serving God, they are "out".
2. Sin manifests that they are not born of God's seed, and in actuality were never part of the church. (1 John 3:10)
1. No. 1 Cor 5:1 does not start off with ''I have heard that someone here took a candy stick from a candy store without paying''.

2. So, all who claim to be Christians and yet have sin, are not part of the church?

I don't think you properly grasp 1. What it takes to be a Christian 2. What a Christian is and 3. What a human is. There is never going to be a free will creation that exercises their free will perfectly inline with God's will. Unless they lose their free will. Which won't ever happen as God is good, fullstop.
 
Loyal
If I think immorally of another woman, do I Iove her more then my wife? No.
What does loving someone have to do with sexual immorality? Sex is not love. Love is not sex.
I agree with you @B-A-C . If we lust sexually (immorally) after another, that is not love, and the person we are "loving" is really ourselves, although even that is not real love, but is lust, too. For, love does no harm to another, so when we lust after another with whom we are not married we are harming ourselves and our spouse, especially if he or she sees us doing it. And, we are possibly harming others who see what we are doing or the person whom we are lusting after who also sees what we are doing. Lust (immoral) is a totally selfish act that only looks to gratify the sinful cravings of the flesh in the person doing the lusting. And, it has nothing to do with love, other than it is the opposite of love. And, I think it is a lie of Satan to tell us, if it is only in our mind, that we are not really committing adultery or that no one is really being harmed by it. If we continue to give in to the lusts of our flesh, as a matter of course, we are not really being ruled by the Spirit of God. And, I am speaking from experience here. If this is what is stored up in our hearts, it is what will come out in our actions, our attitudes and our behaviors towards others, such as in showing disrespect and dishonor and devaluing of people, for lusting (immorally, sexually) after others is degrading, devaluing, and treating the other as an object rather than as a person.
 
Loyal
At the time the Lord Jesus gave me this song (below), I was going a direction which I thought was ok. I mean, I was not sinning, at least not that I knew. But, he sees what we don’t see ahead, which is why he often warns us of danger in advance, and we will do well to heed his warnings and to not go where he says don’t go. In this way, he is also rescuing us.

I had opened a door, or reopened a door, and I was not seeing clearly the dangers lying ahead. I had not yet sinned against God, but he was warning me not to go that direction. If I had not heeded his warnings, and if I had not closed that door, I am convinced it would not have been good. So, I listened, and I did what the Lord instructed me to do, and he rescued me.

Yet, there were times in my Christian life when I didn't take the way out, and I did yield to my flesh, and it was because I was convinced that Satan had power over me and that there was a question as to who would win, not that that was an excuse. We are never given permission to sin against God, i.e. God's grace is not a free license to continue in sin. Yet, we need to know that Jesus won the victory for us, and that in his power and in his strength, as we submit to him, and yield control of our lives over to him, we can be victorious over sin and the flesh, and that sin no longer has mastery over us. In fact, the Lord gave me a writing about that yesterday (posted today): Walking Past.

Jesus, Rescue Me
An Original Work / September 18, 2011

Based off of Romans 7:7-8:39

Jesus, rescue me today.
Listen while I bow and pray.
I need Your help to obey You;
Live for You always.
Meet me in my hour of need, Lord,
As I pray to You.
Help me walk in fellowship, Lord,
Living in Your truth.
Jesus, how I long for You to
Change my heart anew.

Father, God, my heart’s desire
Is to live for You this hour
In Your Holy Spirit’s power
Living in me now.
Teach me to walk in Your love, Lord,
Guiding me each day.
Help me to show love and kindness
To the lost, I pray.
Father, teach me to love others
As You love always.

Holy Spirit come in pow’r.
Revive our hearts in this hour.
Change our hearts to be like You, Lord;
Live for You each day.
Help us to forsake our sins, Lord,
As we humbly pray.
Teach us how to live for You, Lord,
Obey You always.
Holy Spirit come in power,
Revive us today.

 
Active
1. No. 1 Cor 5:1 does not start off with ''I have heard that someone here took a candy stick from a candy store without paying''.
The same "rule" would still apply.
Those who love their sin more than they love God have not made Jesus their Lord.

. So, all who claim to be Christians and yet have sin, are not part of the church?
That is what the scripture infers...in 1 John 3:9; and in other scrip's too.

I don't think you properly grasp 1. What it takes to be a Christian 2. What a Christian is and 3. What a human is. There is never going to be a free will creation that exercises their free will perfectly inline with God's will. Unless they lose their free will. Which won't ever happen as God is good, fullstop.
If your hope is to convince me that Christians still commit sin, in spite of having "turned from" sin, crucifying the flesh, burying it, and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, (reborn of God's seed, (and a new creature from thence), and receiving the Holy Ghost-Comforter-mind of Christ, you are wasting your time.
I exercise my free will to serve one God.
Why haven't you?
 
Active
The same "rule" would still apply.
I don't think we will ever hear Paul say 'this chapter is dedicated to that little boy that stole a cookie from the cookie jar'.

Those who love their sin more than they love God have not made Jesus their Lord
Agreed. Committing mortal sins point to that.

That is what the scripture infers...in 1 John 3:9; and in other scrip's too.
You are misunderstanding that scripture. If you add Rom 7:15 ''What I hate, I do'', other scripture and painful common sense to it, you arrive at the correct context.

If your hope is to convince me that Christians still commit sin, in spite of having "turned from" sin, crucifying the flesh, burying it, and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, (reborn of God's seed, (and a new creature from thence), and receiving the Holy Ghost-Comforter-mind of Christ, you are wasting your time.
I exercise my free will to serve one God.
Why haven't you?
Turned from sin = We fight it, hate it, repent often.
Crucifying the flesh = Daily, ongoing process.
Raised with Christ to walk in newness of life = Yes, emphasis on 'with' Christ. Because without Him we are sinners who hate sin.
Reborn of God's seed = Which is Jesus. Christ in us our hope of glory. Because without Him we are sinners who hate sin.
A new creature = that retains free will.
Received Holy Ghost = to lead us into all truth. Like for example, helping us with sins that hold us down.

I don't think there is a single person here who believes you have not committed a sin today.
 
Active
I don't think we will ever hear Paul say 'this chapter is dedicated to that little boy that stole a cookie from the cookie jar'.
Where did he "dedicate" any chapter to any point of contention?
As I previously posted...your delineation of one sin being more serious than another will be your downfall.
You have thereby relegated theft as inconsequential when compared to adultery.
Either sin shows one is not born of God's seed, (1 John 3:9), and will not inherit eternal life.

Agreed. Committing mortal sins point to that.
And venial sins don't?
You have been duped into believing that one sin matters more than any other.

You are misunderstanding that scripture. If you add Rom 7:15 ''What I hate, I do'', other scripture and painful common sense to it, you arrive at the correct context.
Romans 7; starts out with Paul describing how those under the Mosaic Law are subject to it till death. At least this is true in the marriage/adultery example that Paul uses. But Paul goes on to say the WE are free from the Law by the death of Jesus Christ, and "should be married to another, even to Him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. FOR WHEN WE WERE IN THE FLESH, the motions of sins, which were by the Law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death”. WERE in the flesh, past tense. We are now “in the Spirit”.
Paul goes on to describe his PAST life as a Jew, fighting against his own flesh, and losing the battles.
Paul is writing in the "present-historical" tense, not present tense.
At Romans 7:23, Paul writes "For I see another Law in my members, warring against the Law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the LAW OF SIN which is in my members. But look at Romans 8:2; "For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the LAW OF SIN and death." The Law of sin is powerless to those under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
Paul (and those who are married to Him who is raised from the dead) are free from the Law, and from the flesh.
You seek a "context" that allows sin.I search "context" with the mind of Christ who overcame sin.
Which context do you suppose is of God and which is of the devil?

Turned from sin = We fight it, hate it, repent often.
This misinterpretation makes a mockery of 2 Cor 7:10..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."
Your kind of "sorrow" worketh death.
It isn't a real sorrow or you wouldn't keep going back on the repentance.

Crucifying the flesh = Daily, ongoing process.
Done once, at water baptism into Christ's death. (Romans 6:3-6)

Raised with Christ to walk in newness of life = Yes, emphasis on 'with' Christ. Because without Him we are sinners who hate sin.
But with Him we don't sin any more.
You can't say you have fellowship with God if you walk in darkness-sin. (1 John 1:6)

Reborn of God's seed = Which is Jesus. Christ in us our hope of glory. Because without Him we are sinners who hate sin.
A new creature = that retains free will.
Received Holy Ghost = to lead us into all truth. Like for example, helping us with sins that hold us down.
Reborn of God's seed...that cannot bring forth evil fruit-sin.
A new creature whose free will is to serve one God.
The Holy Ghost doesn't lead men into sin...so who leads sinners into sin?
The devil.

I don't think there is a single person here who believes you have not committed a sin today.
What others "believe" matters little.
Your exclamation betrays your own sin.
Paul writes..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Peter writes..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Further more, I would have you read 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Seek the escapes!
 
Active
Where did he "dedicate" any chapter to any point of contention?
Does 1 Cor 5:1 mention 1. the guy who thought about sleeping with his fathers wife or does it mention 2. the guy who actually slept with his father wife? Please answer with a 1 or 2. There is no third option.

As I previously posted...your delineation of one sin being more serious than another will be your downfall.
You have thereby relegated theft as inconsequential when compared to adultery.
Either sin shows one is not born of God's seed, (1 John 3:9), and will not inherit eternal life.
You are putting words in my mouth. Paul urges us in 1 Cor 6 to judge and discern properly. Not all theft is the same and there may be theft that is worse then adultery.

And venial sins don't?
You have been duped into believing that one sin matters more than any other.
Venial sins can if you stop repenting / fighting them. It can also be that you end up approving of those who commit mortal sins. Becoming grossly tainted without actually doing the 'deed'.

Romans 7; starts out with Paul describing how those under the Mosaic Law are subject to it till death. At least this is true in the marriage/adultery example that Paul uses. But Paul goes on to say the WE are free from the Law by the death of Jesus Christ, and "should be married to another, even to Him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. FOR WHEN WE WERE IN THE FLESH, the motions of sins, which were by the Law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death”. WERE in the flesh, past tense. We are now “in the Spirit”.
Paul goes on to describe his PAST life as a Jew, fighting against his own flesh, and losing the battles.
Paul is writing in the "present-historical" tense, not present tense.
At Romans 7:23, Paul writes "For I see another Law in my members, warring against the Law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the LAW OF SIN which is in my members. But look at Romans 8:2; "For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the LAW OF SIN and death." The Law of sin is powerless to those under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
Paul (and those who are married to Him who is raised from the dead) are free from the Law, and from the flesh.
You seek a "context" that allows sin. I search "context" with the mind of Christ who overcame sin.
Which context do you suppose is of God and which is of the devil?
You are reading with a pre-conceived view.

Rom 7:24-25
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


This misinterpretation makes a mockery of 2 Cor 7:10..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."
Your kind of "sorrow" worketh death.
It isn't a real sorrow or you wouldn't keep going back on the repentance.
I think the KJV is confusing you.

ESV 2 Cor 7:10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

I have godly grief that prompts me to repent. So I don't regret. Worldly grief sounds like Judas in his last hour.

Done once, at water baptism into Christ's death. (Romans 6:3-6)
Jude 1:21 keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
2 Cor 3:18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Whilst I don't completely disagree as I do believe in OSAS. You are just taking it to whole new level.


But with Him we don't sin any more.
You can't say you have fellowship with God if you walk in darkness-sin. (1 John 1:6)
We don't sin anymore because we are covered by grace. His love. His blood. Adopted into His family. My child is always my child. Albeit he is often terribly disobedient.

I don't walk in darkness. I repent and often. If I walked in darkness I would not repent.


Reborn of God's seed...that cannot bring forth evil fruit-sin.
A new creature whose free will is to serve one God.
The Holy Ghost doesn't lead men into sin...so who leads sinners into sin?
The devil.
My kid can do nothing that would cause 'me' to cast him out of my house. Albeit he is often terribly disobedient.

The devil? Adam and Eve would have sinned without the devil. Not excusing the devil, of course he plays a role. Remember people in hell will suffer for their sins, they won't say the devil made me / lead me into sin.

The Holy Ghost helps us to grow in knowledge of what pleases and displeases God. Glory to glory.

What others "believe" matters little.
Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord.
1 Cor 11:31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.

We have to chew on what others believe and teach from scripture. It could / should help us to better examine ourselves.

Your exclamation betrays your own sin.
Paul writes..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Peter writes..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Further more, I would have you read 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Seek the escapes!
You escape temptation every time? I would love to meet someone who knows you and ask them if they would judge you as 'perfect'.

In a few weeks time I can see both of us smiling at these discussions :wink:.
 
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Does 1 Cor 5:1 mention 1. the guy who thought about sleeping with his fathers wife or does it mention 2. the guy who actually slept with his father wife? Please answer with a 1 or 2. There is no third option.
#2, but you do realize that if a subject was "dedicated", it was before the days of "chapters", and just a new paragraph from a letter.
The adultery is the topic here.

You are putting words in my mouth. Paul urges us in 1 Cor 6 to judge and discern properly. Not all theft is the same and there may be theft that is worse then adultery.
You are implying that one manifestation that one is not born of God is better than another manifestation that one is not born of God.
Both garner the same conclusion...destruction.

Venial sins can if you stop repenting / fighting them. It can also be that you end up approving of those who commit mortal sins. Becoming grossly tainted without actually doing the 'deed'.
To do a sin a second time shows one never did "turn from" it.
We can't forge a relationship with God by telling lies.

You are reading with a pre-conceived view.
Rom 7:24-25
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

You bet I am!
You fail to remember that Paul already addressed the END of the flesh in Romans 6:6.
Rom 7 is a transition point between the fleshly life, Rom 6, and the Spiritual life written of in Rom 8
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I think the KJV is confusing you.
ESV 2 Cor 7:10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
I have godly grief that prompts me to repent. So I don't regret. Worldly grief sounds like Judas in his last hour.
If the sorrow is real, one doesn't do the same sorrow provoking deeds again.



Jude 1:21 keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
2 Cor 3:18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
"Are being transformed" is a translation that allows for more sin...and isn't of God who makes our transformation from men of the flesh to men of the Spirit the instant we are reborn as new creatures...not gendered by man but by God.

Whilst I don't completely disagree as I do believe in OSAS. You are just taking it to whole new level.
The "level" i reside in is one of obedience to God.
Doesn't your sect believe in obedience to God?


We don't sin anymore because we are covered by grace. His love. His blood. Adopted into His family. My child is always my child. Albeit he is often terribly disobedient.
One day you will reap the product of your child's terrible disobedience.
God's children are not disobedient to the God of the universe.

I don't walk in darkness. I repent and often. If I walked in darkness I would not repent.
If men walked in the light they wouldn't need to repent again.
Darkness is sin, as Pro 4:19 makes clear..."The way of the wicked is as darkness:"
By going back into darkness, (necessitating their frequent repeated repentances), men show their true love, the sin they keep returning to.
One true "turn from" sin is all that is necessary for those who love God above all else and their neighbors as themselves.

My kid can do nothing that would cause 'me' to cast him out of my house. Albeit he is often terribly disobedient.
Your attempts to liken your relationship with your kid to that of God to His church is terribly short sighted.
What does Jesus say in Matt 7:23?,,,"I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
You can't turn your child from a man of the flesh to a man of the Spirit, but God can.
It will take the child's own wish to do so, but is possible.
What will he say to you if he "turns from" all sin and you don't?
He will still love you, but God is his new Father now. And the child will be praying that God will keep you alive long enough to quit committing sin and leave the flesh behind.

The devil? Adam and Eve would have sinned without the devil.
Pure conjecture.
Your argument is outside of what is written.

Not excusing the devil, of course he plays a role. Remember people in hell will suffer for their sins, they won't say the devil made me / lead me into sin.
Don't you think then that you should quit committing sin?

The Holy Ghost helps us to grow in knowledge of what pleases and displeases God. Glory to glory.
Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord.
1 Cor 11:31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.
We have to chew on what others believe and teach from scripture. It could / should help us to better examine ourselves.
I don't have to chew on the fact that sinners have nothing to offer.

You escape temptation every time? I would love to meet someone who knows you and ask them if they would judge you as 'perfect'.
Your doubt is not of me, but of God.
He can do anything.
I in Him and Him in me can do anything.

In a few weeks time I can see both of us smiling at these discussions :wink:.
I hope it doesn't take even one day before you decide to gain eternal life by losing the one of the flesh.
It is written..."He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." (Matt 10:39)
 

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