Has anyone seen that new book Salt & Light; The Complete Jesus yet?
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jd01
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From the back cover:
Salt & Light; The Complete Jesus is the highly acclaimed and award-winning definitive statement concerning Jesus of Nazareth, history's most compelling figure. The single most important book about the Historical Jesus in the last 30 years, more comprehensive than Josh McDowell’s Evidence That Demands a Verdict and more powerful than C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity.
Salt & Light; The Complete Jesus is the highly acclaimed and award-winning definitive statement concerning Jesus of Nazareth, history's most compelling figure. The single most important book about the Historical Jesus in the last 30 years, more comprehensive than Josh McDowell’s Evidence That Demands a Verdict and more powerful than C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity.
Thanks for sharing. I have read Mere Christianity long time ago, but not the other book or that recent one. Not sure I will be buying it any time soon either. Suffice to say I have the KJV for the meat of His words for Him to help me follow Him.
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Compelling figure? That is the understatement of like ever.
C.S. Lewis was a Catholic and Josh McDowell is an Evangelical.
Tell me if Josh preaches to obey Jesus to be saved by repenting of his sins?
No? Yes?
jd01
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I believe his book does, but in a roundabout way. His work is mainly apologetics while my book is not. My book is an aggregation of the latest NT scholarship (with a few ideas of my own) but presented in a very accessible way (colour, illustrations and a full bibliography). Barring some major new discovery I believe SL could be the definitive source for Jesus as it sorts out the many conflicts we have in the 250 or so early Christian sources that we have.
I'd stick with the KJV if anybody is reading this. By the many words written, error can be introduced. They did that when they had modified the Nicene creed of 325 A.D. in 381 A.D. by giving credit to the Holy Spirit as the Giver of Life when Jesus Christ is the bread of life that gives life to the world and they introduced the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son where no scripture teaches that but there are scriptures for why there isn't any; and that is Jesus is the only way to come to God the Father in worship John 14:6 and no other way John 10:1 especially when broadened Matthew 7:13-14 for why the way has to be narrowed again Luke 13:24 or risk being left behind Luke 13:25-30.
Too many Christians are following long held traditions and practices not found in scripture and this is why believers today need to trust Jesus Christ as their personal Good Shepherd and not follow their pastor or their church blindly.
1 Corinthians 11:1Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
His words says it all for why we need to rely only on Jesus Christ as our personal Good Shepherd because He is the only One that can do a good job of it. So trust Him today in getting you ready & willing to go for when He comes.
Too many Christians are following long held traditions and practices not found in scripture and this is why believers today need to trust Jesus Christ as their personal Good Shepherd and not follow their pastor or their church blindly.
1 Corinthians 11:1Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
His words says it all for why we need to rely only on Jesus Christ as our personal Good Shepherd because He is the only One that can do a good job of it. So trust Him today in getting you ready & willing to go for when He comes.
Well, are the words of Paul's and John's are their own or the Lord's?
Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Even Peter equated Paul's words on the level with the rest of scripture.
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
So that is why I see the whole of the New Testament and the whole of the Old Testament as His words thus scripture.
Jesus_is_LORD
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You're book. Cool. Can you share a link. Is it on Amazon, or where can I get it?
That is wonderful. Well done well done well done.
jd01
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Absolutely. It is print and ebook on Amazon.com Salt & Light; The Complete Jesus: Dean, Jonathan G: 9781778250408: Amazon.com: Books
Now hold on there. I had given you scriptures for how scriptures was not given by men but as moved by the Holy Ghost. So the question here is where did the words of the Holy Ghost come from? I'd say from Jesus Christ, the Word of God.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
So Peter, Luke, Matthew, Mark, John, and James, and even Paul as they spoke or written as led by the Holy Spirit, the words came from Jesus Christ. So limiting His words for when Jesus was on earth is an oversight that should be corrected.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
The Holy does remind us of what Jesus has said unto us but Jesus also has given us His words through he Holy Spirit through others, obviously. How else can the four gospel be written when man has such poor memory? Why else would Peter even consider Paul's words as scripture?
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
Also all the words in the O.T. were by the Holy Ghost, Whom got those words from the Word of God before His incarnation as Jesus was the God men had seen in the O.T. Click on link below.
Jesus The God That Men Had Seen In The O.T.
So the Word of God in the O.T. and the N.T. are His words and thus scripture.
jd01
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Thank you. When I read Chapter 14 & 16 of John again I am struck more by the purpose of the passage, it isn't to advertise the Holy Spirit but to emphasise that Jesus' followers should follow his teaching. The Holy Spirit/Spirit of Truth/Paraclete seem more like universal metaphors for the truth. Jesus simply mentions them in passing while not really defining what they are. He even says he is speaking "figuratively" and not plainly. So I think it is better to stick with the plain message, Jesus is going to the Father and after continue to follow Jesus. That is Jesus' message here and the one we should follow, not get distracted by Spirit & Ghost etc etc
The whole construct of the Holy Spirit dictating/leading the gospel writers and Paul simply does not work, the NT is obviously the product of ancient writers given the errors and contradictions and confusion they contain. Why can't the sources on Jesus' teaching and missing be human? I find that a far more compelling case for Jesus, don't you? The Divine intruding into our human world!
As to the OT, again it is a piece of literature which should accept as a plain fact, rather than engage in a mystical project to embellish it. Trying to "deify' pieces of human literature is damaging to the faith.
The whole construct of the Holy Spirit dictating/leading the gospel writers and Paul simply does not work, the NT is obviously the product of ancient writers given the errors and contradictions and confusion they contain. Why can't the sources on Jesus' teaching and missing be human? I find that a far more compelling case for Jesus, don't you? The Divine intruding into our human world!
As to the OT, again it is a piece of literature which should accept as a plain fact, rather than engage in a mystical project to embellish it. Trying to "deify' pieces of human literature is damaging to the faith.
It is not about deifying a piece of literature but to recognize God's words to us as the truth.
Jesus defended the scriptures as something that is true and cannot be broken and often referred to the scriptures to defend the truth.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Peter explained how the scripture has been written both the N.T. and the O.T.
2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
Granted, Jesus shared a warning from the Father that there will be some who will not love Him to keep His words for why there are many Bible versions, but He did say some will love Him to keep His words for why I rely on the KJV.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
So for the errors and contradictions you seem to be seeing, you will have to address them, but I suggest using the KJV since I believe it is keeping the meat of His words to discern good and evil by His words whereas modern bibles do not.
jd01
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Actually, I don't think he did. I don't see in your example how he is stating the OT is true, he is simply saying Your law says so-and-so to make a point, again, about paying attention to his teaching. And I do not doubt that Peter, as did many of his Jewish followers, thought the OT or Jewish Scriptures were 100% true. So he and others started the project of setting Jesus into the Jewish tradition and 'explaining him' from a Jewish worldview point. The only problem is that Jesus did not teach such things in our best sources, others did, he did not. We are luckier as we can see now that the OT is largely fictitious and can see Jesus' and teachings far clearer
Jesus used the scripture a lot in defending Himself.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Jesus said scripture even testified of Himself as the God men had seen in the O.T. before His incarnation.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life....
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
What trouble would they have in believing His words? That He had met Abraham in His day and Abraham was glad.
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
When was the day Abraham saw Him in His day and was glad? I imagined it was when He had come to tell Abraham the news that Sara would have a son.
Genesis 18:1-19 KJV
So Jesus is the Lord God men had seen in the O.T. before His incarnation as the prophesied Son of Man to give His life as a ransom for many.
Anyway, Jesus refer to the truth in scripture a lot when refuting those in error.
Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Since He said scripture cannot be broken and referred to the scripture as the truth, you should also see scripture as the Word of God to us as kept in the KJV, but only Jesus can help you see that.
Bob Carabbio
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Never heard of it.
jd01
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Actually, Jesus rarely mentions 'scripture', the Jewish Scriptures In both the cases you quote it is clear Jesus is not affirming the truth of these 'scriptures' but rather using them as a context to get the crowd to agree with him. In the first instance of John you quote, he refers to the 'scriptures' simply as 'your law', ie the Jewish tribal theology at that time, as an argumentative device - putting it in a context they can relate to. The second he is doing the same because he references Moses and Abraham, who were fictional characters taken from the same 'scriptures'. Jesus would have known they were not real people, but again, he had to cast arguments in forms for his opponents to understand. This makes sense when you take Jesus actions and teachings as a whole, and not as little snippets taken out of context; he teaching a new teaching unrelated to the contents of the 'scriptures' these people followed. And the Marriage at the Resurrection discourse in Mark is not a good argument as Jesus essentially has to correct confusion in the 'scriptures'.
