Greetings from a Transhumanist Atheist.

[TheEndofCrazy]

Hello,

I was indoctrinated in Catholic schools. I never cared much for going and most of what they taught made no sense. It seemed to contradict the physical world. I stopped religion all together except to debate with Christians occasionally. I became a scientist.

Later I got involved with various Christian churches because of a woman I was seeing. I came to know the Christian bible quite well.

Later I decided the whole thing didn't make sense. I could see some advantages to having religious organizations for community purposes. But I couldn't believe in miracles, prayer or a personal god.

I am transhumanist atheist now. You might say I'm a hedonist. Basically this means I favor using science, reason and technology to end all human suffering. I think suffering is why people turn to religion in the first place.

Please ask me any question you have about why I am not a believer and why I am a humanist.
P.S. I find inspiration in the song Imagine by John Lennon:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

 

[kyval82]

I am new here so I may be a bit wrong, but this forum is for christains and for those who are seeking the Lord, and obviously, this is not the case with you. I find it disrespectful to post those lyrics here on a christain site, if you are seeking the Lord, this is a great place, if not, there are many other sites for non believers.

 

[Boanerges]

Welcome to TJ you wild and crazy guy! Some religious doctrines do not make any sense. Once one gets to know Jesus the truth comes to life and miracles are quite normal. I hope we can help you end that craziness!:shade:

 

[Chad]

You're inspired by a dead "legend" John Lennon.

We're inspired by the LIVING WORD and filled with the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ.

Infinite difference. You quote a dead man. We quote the living Savior.

You come to a Christian forum to promote your disbelief. Sad. Nothing else to do with your spare time? No friends perhaps? What is it? Just bored? Hateful? You like to bother people?

Typical atheist.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

TheEndOfCrazy. I welcome you to TalkJesus. This site is not just for Christians; it is for all who come with open minds seeking spiritual truth. While you're apparently older than college students, you may find some answers to questions/objections you may have on this link:

Ask Questions about Life and God

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[TheEndofCrazy]

I find it strange that people who believe:

"The truth will set you free."

Would be so insulted by people presenting what they think. I am open minded and I will believe in the Christian god when you present me with sufficient evidence.

In the bible, Paul debated with Greeks in the town forums. They were non-believers and skeptics. So he convinced some he didn't. Why are are you taking such as negative view toward non-believers? At the final judgement, can't I just say "I wrote what I honestly thought and I was insulted and told my ideas were not welcome. I didn't see any love, compassion or honesty, just anger from Christians."

Don't we all just want to find the truth or not? How can we do that if you isolate yourselves from people that think differently? Or is all you want to do is preach to the choir and never have your beliefs challenged?

 

[Spoy]

Hey "TheEndofCrazy" it's nice to meet you. Thanks for being so open and honest here. That's quite brave of you to be upfront with everyone here!

Hopefully this can be a place for us all to learn from each other and share. I'd love to hear what you think of suffering as an Atheist and if you believe there is even objective morals, or if all of life is meaningless.

(and sorry some of the others seem to have a harsh and rude attitude)

 

[kyval82]

I find it strange that people who believe:

"The truth will set you free."

Would be so insulted by people presenting what they think. I am open minded and I will believe in the Christian god when you present me with sufficient evidence.

In the bible, Paul debated with Greeks in the town forums. They were non-believers and skeptics. So he convinced some he didn't. Why are are you taking such as negative view toward non-believers? At the final judgement, can't I just say "I wrote what I honestly thought and I was insulted and told my ideas were not welcome. I didn't see any love, compassion or honesty, just anger from Christians."

Don't we all just want to find the truth or not? How can we do that if you isolate yourselves from people that think differently? Or is all you want to do is preach to the choir and never have your beliefs challenged?

If you are open minded about Jesus then I can understand why you are here, this is a great place to be if you want to know the truth about God, but why do athiests always assume that christains need to have their belief in God challanged? We as christains have that everyday, your welcome here just as everyone else is my freind, Hopefully to find the lord and to understand the truth. Blessings

 

[TheEndofCrazy]

If you are open minded about Jesus then I can understand why you are here, this is a great place to be if you want to know the truth about God, but why do atheists always assume that christians need to have their belief in God challenged? We as christians have that everyday, your welcome here just as everyone else is my friend, Hopefully to find the lord and to understand the truth. Blessings

It says in the bible you should have an answer to all who ask. But no one ever challenged me when I was in church before. So I ended up going to a bunch a different churches all with a different standard for what I could morally do or not do.

Why not go to Westboro Baptist church?
Why not Pentacostal or Mormon?
Why not a Universalist church that accepts atheists and has some atheist pastors?

Seems like if you never have your beliefs challenged, how could you ever be sure?

I like the idea of the Universal Unitarian church because they accept everyone no matter their belief or non-belief. What is wrong with that?

 

[capriham]

Sure you could go to different churches that suit your needs. But the problem is that some churches teach what people want to hear and won't teach the true biblical message. If you are sincere in seeking God, you need to go to a bible speaking church. Many churches preach the bible but few preach what it says verbatim. The scriptures are quit clear on what direction is right and wrong. You need to open it up and read it. There is only one true message and it's in the scriptures of the True God and Savior Jesus Christ. If you read the Bible with the intent of finding the truth, then the truth will set you free. Be trusting in the Holy Bible not always in the word of man!!

 

[holdingon2hope]

Greetings from a Transhumanist Atheist

Hello Crazy,

I am very happy to meet you though I may disappoint you in that I am not able to debate Atheism v Christianity. However, I welcome you here.

I believe that many who do not know God in any personal way look to reason, science and the physical for answers and evidence of His existence. There are also many who sit in church every week for years on end and still do not know God although they may profess to do so. I was guilty of that arrogance for a long time and eventually left the church when things didnt add up the way I expected them to.

I think that you are right in as much as many come to know Christ through suffering. However, which ever way they come, they come through need of some kind, even if it just to find the truth of life, be it intelligence, science, existence or God. It transpired that for me I came to a place of inner darkness, the circumstances too complicated to explain here, but nevertheless, a strong capable woman such as I actually came to a place of knowing that suicide was a real possiblity, not just a thought.

In that place and time I met a man called Andrew who told me about Jesus. When he first began to talk to me I thought "I have heard all this before." However, I listened, there was nowhere else to go in my spirit, only an unspeakable alternative. I wanted all that he said I could have in Jesus, but there was something of my life that I deemed unforgiveable. The world would condemn it, I surely did. I am not one for baring my soul or great confessions, but I could not get past this. I confessed it to him and waited for the reaction I was sure would come. Instead, it was met with complete love. As he continued to speak words of love and not condemnation I had a vision,,,, there was a wide stretch of water, Jesus stood on the other side of it and the words of love that I was hearing was the sunlight dancing off that water. All I had to do was step in. I drowned in it. This experience was what I call Divine Intervention,,,, deep calling to deep,,,, spirit to spirit. Very different from religious rules, hell and damnation, guilt trips, or sanctimonius Sunday faces that I had lived with for years. This was the Holy Spirit speaking through the heart of a true man of God, a demonstration of who He is when the spirit of Christ lives IN you.

In Matthew 7 verse 16 it says there "Ye shall know them by their fruits."

The fruits of the spirit as told in Galations 5 are love, joy,peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance.

It was these elements of the living God, the actual demonstration of His Love through a willing servant that showed me who He is and who I am in Christ. From there began a fascinating journey and I have never looked back.

Blessings to you my friend, and may you find what you are seeking.

Yvonne

 

[rjones]

I came to know the Christian bible quite well.

What do you mean by this?

 

[Veracity]

I find it strange that people who believe:

"The truth will set you free."

At the final judgement, can't I just say "I wrote what I honestly thought and I was insulted and told my ideas were not welcome. I didn't see any love, compassion or honesty, just anger from Christians."

Well, I am not sure if the Lord will find it necessary to let us make excuses, but the fact that you speak of the final judgment tells me that somewhere inside, you know that day will come. There are a lot of Chirstians who will be at that same judgment you speak of, and they too will be turned away like any non believer.

If this were biblical times, Jesus would come to your home and sit and speak with you, so I don't know why these people you have encountered have treated you with any less love than the Lord has for you. However, His spirit is obviously speaking to you and dealing with you on a daily basis, what do you think He would have to do to convince your Thomas spirit? Is there a situation where your hope and faith would turn to Him?

I would not dare say I know all the answers because God is too awesome for any of us to dissect and lay out on a table to run tests on Him, Jesus is the image of the invisible God, and while our flesh will age and die, it is the spirit He gave us that is forever, either in eternal life, or eternal death.

I am pleased to know that you know the bible well, I pray the Lord will do whatever it takes for you to become the blind, the lame and the deaf, that He will heal. (spiritual) He loves you, but I think you know that, He just hasn't come to you and shown you flesh and bones.

Thanks for posting here, it is actually a good thing for you to be here, that way everyone gets a reality check!!

 

[kyval82]

It says in the bible you should have an answer to all who ask. But no one ever challenged me when I was in church before. So I ended up going to a bunch a different churches all with a different standard for what I could morally do or not do.

Why not go to Westboro Baptist church?
Why not Pentacostal or Mormon?
Why not a Universalist church that accepts atheists and has some atheist pastors?

Seems like if you never have your beliefs challenged, how could you ever be sure?

I like the idea of the Universal Unitarian church because they accept everyone no matter their belief or non-belief. What is wrong with that?

As i said, in being in a christain, our beliefs are challanged daily. I was simply saying i thought this was a site for those who seek the Lord and or are christain.

Do you seek the Lord?
If so welcome here friend..

But I ask because i can't seem to clearly get that here.. Do you seek the Lord?

 

[SpiritLedEd]

It says in the bible you should have an answer to all who ask. But no one ever challenged me when I was in church before. So I ended up going to a bunch a different churches all with a different standard for what I could morally do or not do,

When you say "answer", are you referriing to a quick fix? Or do you mean a response that can point you toward the information you seek? As I'm sure you know from your academic experience, there's usually no such thing as a one-stop shop resource for answers to detailed questions.

Seems like if you never have your beliefs challenged, how could you ever be sure?

Good point. As Solomon wisely observed, "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." (Prv 27:17 NIV)

SLE

 

[TheEndofCrazy]

I'd love to hear what you think of suffering as an Atheist and if you believe there is even objective morals, or if all of life is meaningless.

(and sorry some of the others seem to have a harsh and rude attitude)

I'm currently a hedonist, so the meaning of life is get as much pleasure as possible while minimizing pain. I also think the meaning of life is what one makes it to be. To me, I devote myself to the end of human suffering here on earth. I don't believe the world should wait on Jesus to show up someday or not at all. Abolish human suffering ASAP.

Isn't the meaning of life for you to gain as much pleasure as possible and avoid pain? The only difference is you would say "through Christ". I would say through science and reason. So I don't want to convert you if you really enjoy being a Christian, that would be quite hypocritical.

People only ask what the meaning of life is because of suffering. Religion promises an end to suffering someday. If there is a heaven, you won't be going around all day asking what is the meaning of this existence, you would be to busy enjoying the experience.

All Christian are also hedonists, but you're in it for the long haul(if there is an afterlife). Science tells us that people are only capable of self-interest actions. Attaining heaven and avoiding hell is self-serving if one believes they could exist.

Should Christians join with humanists to abolish human suffering through science and reason? Or should Christians just pray for an reduction of suffering and hope Jesus comes back soon? Which is a more moral position to take if one "loves thy neighbor"?

 

[TheEndofCrazy]

a strong capable woman such as I actually came to a place of knowing that suicide was a real possiblity, not just a thought.


Yvonne

Yvonne,

Have you ever examined why you were so depressed you considered suicide? Could it be that science and reason has never applied to end human suffering? We have great technology now, that there is no reason someone should continually suffer from depression.

Humanity has had religion around for a long time, yet there is still great suffering in the world. Humans still largely compete and fight with each other rather than cooperate. I'm not saying give up your religion if it relieves some your pain. Please work with science and reason to end suffering and not fight it as so many religious people do.

 

[SaviorNChrist]

Welcome to TalkJesus. I will be honest, I didn't particulary like your opening comments but it appears that you are reaching out, even if it's a little, by joining this site. I do not want to be hateful or mean, but want to show the love of Christ through any means possible without arguing (2 Tim 2:23-26).

First, let me say that science is helping to prove that there is a God (or Creator). There is simply no way all these phsyical laws can just come to be out of nowhere without causing mass chaos; such order could never come from random chaos. Also, can one truly understand how the eye is made up? Have you looked into the complexity of the human eye? Or how about a single strand of human DNA? How is it that the closer in detail you look in the DNA chain, the more complex it gets??? These are just a few different areas that science has helped prove their is a Creator (although this proof is no where needed).

1 Peter 3:15 "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

You are correct, as true-Christians, we should be able to give reason to the hope we hold. That reason is simply proof and evidence of the fulfilled Word of God. I can prove to you that there is a Creator (look all around, this didn't come out of nothing), but you could never prove to me that there isn't one. More evidence is the drastic change that a spirit-led believer goes through once committing their life to Christ. Yes, there are spiritual battles and carnal battles (we are still human), but we have faith in our LORD to help us perserve through those trying times. Additionally, are all the fulfilled prophecies and those that are working on being fulfilled; look at what's going on in Israel today...just amazes me how prophets centuries ago would be able to predict this information if it wasn't the inerrant Word of God. There are so many other reasons for my hope, but I don't have the space to fill them all in.

I do feel sorry for you that you had to witness some of the things that you say you've seen in church from so-called believers. There are MANY (and I mean MANY) corrupt & false churches, pastors/preachers/ministers, followers, etc. Also, there is a huge difference between Christianity and any other world religion. All other "religions" build man up; man can gain entrance to heaven (or whatever spiritual high place there is for them) by what he does, whereas in Christianity, man cannot do anything for himself, but it's from the finished work of Christ that we have the oppurtunity to place our faith in Christ, ultimately leading to our salvation and assurance in heaven with a relationship with God.

Ultimately, the belief and faith in Christ will come down to one person and one person only, YOU. All we can do is share the Gospel and deliver the good news. God promises to make Himself known to those who truly seek Him. You have to choose the path you want to follow, I pray it's the right one. But hey, don't take my word for it, seek out the truth for your own.

I'd be glad to discuss this some more with you, if you would be interested with an open mind and not let a few BAD experiences ruin your eternity. PM me anytime bro.

I'll leave you with one final thought. "One day it will be too late, but it could never be too soon."

God Bless

 

[kyval82]

I'm currently a hedonist, so the meaning of life is get as much pleasure as possible while minimizing pain. I also think the meaning of life is what one makes it to be. To me, I devote myself to the end of human suffering here on earth. I don't believe the world should wait on Jesus to show up someday or not at all. Abolish human suffering ASAP.

Isn't the meaning of life for you to gain as much pleasure as possible and avoid pain? The only difference is you would say "through Christ". I would say through science and reason. So I don't want to convert you if you really enjoy being a Christian, that would be quite hypocritical.

People only ask what the meaning of life is because of suffering. Religion promises an end to suffering someday. If there is a heaven, you won't be going around all day asking what is the meaning of this existence, you would be to busy enjoying the experience.

All Christian are also hedonists, but you're in it for the long haul(if there is an afterlife). Science tells us that people are only capable of self-interest actions. Attaining heaven and avoiding hell is self-serving if one believes they could exist.

Should Christians join with humanists to abolish human suffering through science and reason? Or should Christians just pray for an reduction of suffering and hope Jesus comes back soon? Which is a more moral position to take if one "loves thy neighbor"?

How would it ever be possible to end all pain, suffering, heartache, cancer, sickness, disease, old age, bad hearts, etc.?

There is no way of ending human suffering here on earth, it is absolutly impossible. Jesus said that we would suffer, not only physically but emotionally and spiritually. Suffering is part of being a human as much as breathing and dying are.

The only way that suffering will stop, is when you enter in to the kingdom of God.. He promises us no suffering, any longer.

How would anyone here be able to stop any of the suffering we face on earth???

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Humanity has had religion around for a long time, yet there is still great suffering in the world. Humans still largely compete and fight with each other rather than cooperate. I'm not saying give up your religion if it relieves some your pain. Please work with science and reason to end suffering and not fight it as so many religious people do.

You insinuate that "religious" people do nothing to help those less fortunate than themselves. Whether that is true or not depends on how you define "religious". If you define religion as perfunctory observance of rules and rituals et cetera, I agree. I grew up in such an environment myself. But, there is a concise but powerful description of true Christianity in Jas 1:27 - "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." And there are many churches and Christian organizations that work diligantly toward those ends. This is the true Christian religion - driven by true love, a power that science and reason cannot generate.

SLE