Grace & Obedience

[jari]

it would be strange if id have to remove some parts of my bible to believe what your saying.

All the parts where it says that Jesus died for my sin.

And how grace is free gift. And how God has justfied me without works. And forgiven all the sins just like that.

Amazaing

but I have choise but to believe what the bible says.

- over the things you guys say.

 

[faithfulservant]

Jari, this about what God calls "rightly dividing" His word. There's a reason why He says we need to work hard to "rightly divide" His word, and there's a reason why we should feel ashamed if we don't. This stuff isn't a joke, it's very, very serious:

2 Timothy 2:15
15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

He says we should "rightly divide" His word because these things can be hard to understand. If we don't understand these things, we can easily twist His truth into ideas that are self-destructive (emphasis mine):

2 Peter 3:14-18
14 Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace.
15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

I mean, look at that entire passage. It says it all. Can you spend the next week praying on that passage, meditating on it, and seeking the Lord's truth on it? He will explain it all to you. That passage actually encapsulates the very essence of this question and clearly answers it, if you've got ears and eyes that are open.

You have to understand something, I'M NOT A LEGALIST!!! Seriously, I had to shout that. My name is ByGraceAlone for a reason. It's the truth, His grace is the only way anyone gets saved. It's by His grace alone that I am not a rotten sinner wallowing in wanton sin anymore.

I needed His grace yesterday. I needed His grace today. I will need His grace tomorrow. We aren't going to be free from this sinful flesh until we are resurrected into glorified bodies.

That doesn't mean we mishandle His truth because we don't understand it. Jari, teachers are held to a higher standard. You posed a question, but did you really want answers? It looks to me you want to teach others.

If anyone is unsure about the law and grace, pray for wisdom and understanding and don't waver in faith. He will teach you everything, but you should be steeping yourself in the word if you want to know what His truths are. They don't come by casually reading this word.

We will be rewarded for diligently seeking Him.

 

[faithfulservant]

Oh yes...

Whenever we come across two contradicting ideas in God's word, it's never a matter of contradiction, it's always a matter of man not understanding.

God's word, if you dive in and simply push yourself to deeper waters and strive for deeper understanding, begins to crystalize into the most amazingly complex mosaic of ideas ever conceived because it was literally breathed out by a holy, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, eternal God!

It's the richest text ever laid to paper because it wasn't written by men, it was written through men by a holy God!

So when we come across what we think are contradictions, we need simply trust that He has the truth and that He will reveal it to us. How? Not by interpretation, that's going to lead to error. But by His own word!

God's word explains God's word! You know how the LORD insists that 2 or more witnesses are necessary to establish something? It's the same with His word. Every idea, every doctrine, every thing that God wants to teach us in His word will be backed up by 2 or more witnesses of scripture in the Bible.

It's amazing!

So when we come across anything that seems confusing or contradictory, we must look throughout His word like a Berean considering the "whole counsel" of God. Old Testament and New Testament work together to explain the greatest truths we will ever know.

 

[jari]

2 Timothy 2:15
15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

I was thinking of you all about these scriptures on the other day. But do i come here to call you false teachers? No i wont.

 

[jari]

It would be nice to have conversation about scriptures instead of just reading about your accusations.
If you would have good explanations about the scripture i would without doupt not argue with you. But the things you say are very contradicting to rest of the bible so I just cant agree with you.

 

[brakelite]

Brakelite I have to step in here. Grace is not unmerited favor. Though it certainly is part of it, in that Grace is a thing we did not deserve. Grace is "The empowering PRESENCE of GOD that empowers us to do the things HE wants us to do."
Unmerited favor is "Mercy"
"By GOD's empowering PRESENCE are we saved..."
Because of HIS mercy? Yah!!


Hmmm Ok I guess you said the same thing in a bit more round about way LOL

Let me put it another way.
Grace is receiving what we do not deserve.
Mercy is not receiving what we do deserve.

 

[Kit Carson]

Once upon a time this lady called me to unstop her sewer line and I made an appointment with her.......on a Sunday to come that afternoon and help her out. She was not home, she called me later and asked me when are you coming, I was nice at first and explained to her I did come and left a note on her door. She got nasty and demanded that I come right now.............yea ........well sometimes Kit is kinda ornery, so I told her, you know that little hole in the pipe where you put the cable to clean it out?? How about you just go jump in it. Lol!! Giggle, jump up an down, and grin. Lol!! Was that wrong, yep, I should have shown more patience, am I going to hell for that, nope, I was forgiven before I did this. The lady was wrong in her actions but I was also wrong as I did not listen to Christ and be as gentle as I should have been.

Many of you live in too much fear, you let men bring forward the old law and inscribe this into the simple salvation that Christ gave his life for.

To say that anyone who accepts Christ and is born again can again lose their salvation is saying I deny what Christ tells me and I must maintain my own salvation by my own works. It totally denies the simple design of Grace. Grace is freely given by God through Christ and it was from Gods mercy this was done. I fully accept this and do so with great wonder and amazement and I am very thankful.
I am a man, there is no way I can ever even come close to saving myself.
We are saved by the merits of Christ, not by our own merits. You see we have no merits. As good as we try to be, we are so fallen we cannot face God , so Christ helps us do this. To say otherwise is to say Christs death and sacrifice was not sufficient for our sins be they past, present or future. It is so very simple, we are saved by Grace, and by the wonderful merits of Christ, if we try to stand on our own ways, we will never make it.
Rare for me to say a scripture as I simply state what I feel in my heart, but Titus 3:5 simply again says we are saved by Gods great mercy and washed by the Blood of Christ and by the renewing of the Holy Spirit.

Now is there a way to lose your salvation, yes one and only one. If one denies the Holy Spirit, or as Christ says, anyone who denies my name , I will say I do not know you. To me this is one and the same, but the bible tells us also that it would not be by the power of man this could happen. It would be something allowed by God most likely if a person by free will chooses to be totally bad, curse against God and deliberately challenge God. That is the only way that I see one could fall.

It is very simple, we are saved upon the merits of Christ. We are saved by the mercy shown to us by God. As long as one does not deny the name of Christ and challenge God, all is fine.

At the risk of bringing in the old law into grace I will speak of David and his adultery and murder of the woman's husband he coveted. Did God send him to hell?? Nope, he was very patient and taught him the consequences of sin and David again ran to God and said I am sorry. His spirit was renewed.

Kit

 

[faithfulservant]

I never said someone who follows Him could lose their salvation. I said the scriptures show a very clear warning to people who may stop following Him for one of two reasons:

a) they falter in their faith to the point where they feel they can't be forgiven

b) they follow their flesh so much that they no longer have real relationship with the Lord, thereby walking in wanton sin assuming they can do whatever they please.

I used scriptures which are irrefutable, and quite clear. But I realize these topics are "meat" not "milk." I also realize there are some churches actively teaching against what the LORD's scriptures clearly state.

My advice about getting into His word daily, ministering to the LORD in prayer daily, and submitting to what He wants to do through us for others in servitude and love were most certainly not a command for works; It's the solution to walking in this fallen world!

Plenty of people struggle their way through this Christian life stumbling, in fear, continually feeling defeated. That's not the LORD's will for you.
Victory is available, but it does require a bit of our freewill to manifest.

If someone goes weeks without praying, that's spiritually dangerous. If someone never bothers to read His word, how can they know what God wants them to look like? The word of God is our mirror. We cannot glance in it occaissionally and walk away forgetting what we're supposed to look like.

We are to become transformed, from glory to glory, into the likeness of Jesus as He washes us clean. How does He wash us clean? With His word and His spirit. They work together to supernaturally change us (emphasis mine).

John 13:6-9
6 He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, do you wash my feet?” 7 Jesus answered him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but afterward you will understand.” 8 Peter said to him, “You shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no share with me.” 9 Simon Peter said to him, “Lord, not my feet only but also my hands and my head!”

 

[El Hombre viejo]

I never said someone who follows Him could lose their salvation. I said the scriptures show a very clear warning to people who may stop following Him for one of two reasons:

a) they falter in their faith to the point where they feel they can't be forgiven

b) they follow their flesh so much that they no longer have real relationship with the Lord, thereby walking in wanton sin assuming they can do whatever they please.

I used scriptures which are irrefutable, and quite clear. But I realize these topics are "meat" not "milk." I also realize there are some churches actively teaching against what the LORD's scriptures clearly state.

My advice about getting into His word daily, ministering to the LORD in prayer daily, and submitting to what He wants to do through us for others in servitude and love were most certainly not a command for works; It's the solution to walking in this fallen world!

Plenty of people struggle their way through this Christian life stumbling, in fear, continually feeling defeated. That's not the LORD's will for you.
Victory is available, but it does require a bit of our freewill to manifest.

If someone goes weeks without praying, that's spiritually dangerous. If someone never bothers to read His word, how can they know what God wants them to look like? The word of God is our mirror. We cannot glance in it occaissionally and walk away forgetting what we're supposed to look like.

We are to become transformed, from glory to glory, into the likeness of Jesus as He washes us clean. How does He wash us clean? With His word and His spirit. They work together to supernaturally change us (emphasis mine).

John 13:6-9
6 He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, do you wash my feet?” 7 Jesus answered him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but afterward you will understand.” 8 Peter said to him, “You shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no share with me.” 9 Simon Peter said to him, “Lord, not my feet only but also my hands and my head!”

I know a man who knows a lot of Word. A vast storehouse of knowledge. But his relationship with FATHER is very very shaky. Why?

This man, though very likable, has never had any friends, at least to his knowledge. The reason for that, as far as I can see, is that he never let people into his life. He did not communicate more than was necessary to get what he needed. "Please pass the salt" is not opening up to a relationship. I've seen him reach out to help those in need but pull back as soon as they reached out to get to know him.
He sounds like a man living in fear doesn't he? He really loves people but does not trust them.
He really loves GOD but doesn't trust HIM either. Well to make a long story short this man had an epiphany last week. The WORD only helps him so much to be like FATHER. Now he has to learn to talk to FATHER. To have actual conversations with FATHER. He has to get to know FATHER in intimate relationship. For an old man, that is not an easy thing.

You said "If someone goes weeks without praying, that's spiritually dangerous."

Not only is it spiritually dangerous, but if you don't spend time in intimate conversation with FATHER you will NEVER really get to know HIM, and will end up trying to earn that salvation that is so freely given.

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 (King James Version)


<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29638">16</sup>Rejoice evermore.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29639">17</sup>Pray without ceasing.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29640">18</sup>In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.


Here is the key to developing a relationship with FATHER



Praise,

prayer,
and a gracious heart( an attitude of gratitude)