God's Truth to Give Gospel Presentation

[GodB4Us]

There are some Protestants that I can only debate them on the gospel by only what Paul says, because they think he preached a different gospel.

People misunderstand Paul they think when he says 'not of works' that he is saying we don't have to do anything but believe.
Paul was a Pharisee and enforced the old law which was based on the works of the law to where a person had to be clean to enter the temple to be near God's Spirit. Paul explains a lot about how it is not of those works anymore and how Jesus cleans us by our having faith that his blood does.
I have debated many who say flat out that we are not to go by what Jesus says but only Paul.

How do you apply Paul's words here at the beginning of verse 5 if repenting from all sins which is a work you insist sinners are to do before getting saved by Jesus Christ?

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

And how do you apply this reference below where God justifies the ungodly that worketh not but believes in Him for how a sinner is saved without works in verse 5?

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Yet Titus 3:8 would have us do good works, but not for obtaining salvation, but it is profitable unto saved believers to do as we are His workmanship to walk in Him as once again, nothing we did to earn that salvation below.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Paul is not referring to any purifications works either when he specified that it was nothing you did in order for you to be saved by Jesus Christ other than believing in Him which in all respect our believing in Him is a work done by the Father.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

How can there be any rest for you at the beginning if you did not even believe His invitation to surrender from all your religious striving & trust Him to deliver you from your bondage to sin ad to death by just believing in Him?

Do not go off to any other scripture because these scripture reproves how you are applying what those other scripture to mean thus you are misapplying those other scripture since scripture cannot go against scripture.

You either align these scripture here with your belief or you can't, and you need to listen to Him & His words on how you are really saved and born again of the Spirit by simply believing in Him. Then discipleship comes in running that race.

 

[God's Truth]

How do you apply Paul's words here at the beginning of verse 5 if repenting from all sins which is a work you insist sinners are to do before getting saved by Jesus Christ?

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

And how do you apply this reference below where God justifies the ungodly that worketh not but believes in Him for how a sinner is saved without works in verse 5?

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Paul is speaking about circumcision.
Circumcision is the sign that a person did all of the purification works.
The purification works were righteous works and they justified the people before God.
The people people had to do these works themselves.

Yet Titus 3:8 would have us do good works, but not for obtaining salvation, but it is profitable unto saved believers to do as we are His workmanship to walk in Him as once again, nothing we did to earn that salvation below.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Paul is not referring to any purifications works either when he specified that it was nothing you did in order for you to be saved by Jesus Christ other than believing in Him which in all respect our believing in Him is a work done by the Father.

Every time Paul says not of works , it is about the purification works.
The pharisees used to brag about how many foreskins they got signifying a conversion.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

You don't understand the scriptures and you refuse to listen to what I post in reply to you.
I have already explained that scripture to you more than once.
You will have to decide if you want God's Truth or man's truth.
That scripture you don't understand was used by false teachers for centuries.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

How can there be any rest for you at the beginning if you did not even believe His invitation to surrender from all your religious striving & trust Him to deliver you from your bondage to sin ad to death by just believing in Him?

The Jews had to do the purification works and it is the works that kept the Gentiles away, they didn't want to do those works.
It is power to obey Jesus' beautiful words.
It is Spirit and life.
You don't see the love and joy in obeying Jesus' commands.
You need to wonder more about that.

Do not go off to any other scripture because these scripture reproves how you are applying what those other scripture to mean thus you are misapplying those other scripture since scripture cannot go against scripture.

You either align these scripture here with your belief or you can't, and you need to listen to Him & His words on how you are really saved and born again of the Spirit by simply believing in Him. Then discipleship comes in running that race.

You don't listen. You just copy/paste what your false teachers taught you.

 

[GodB4Us]

Paul is speaking about circumcision.

Obviously you keep telling yourself that but glossing over how we are saved by believing in Jesus Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

Obviously you keep telling yourself that but glossing over how we are saved by believing in Jesus Christ.

Paul is speaking about circumcision, and the scriptures say so.

PAUL IS SPEAKING ABOUT CIRCUMCISION.

See all these scriptures where he SAYS it is about the works of the law WHICH IS ABOUT CIRCUMCISION and the other purification works.


Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

Galatians 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Galatians 5:11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished.

Galatians 6:11 Not Circumcision but the New Creation
See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.

Galatians 6:15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.


Nowhere anywhere has Paul said it is not by repenting of sins. He is speaking against the purification works of the law.

You also brought up Titus to try to prove you only have to have faith---but look at these scriptures, it shows us it is about not doing the works of circumcision.


Titus 1:10

Rebuking Those Who Fail to Do Good

For there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception, especially those of the circumcision group.

Galatians 2:3 Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek.


You also brought up Romans to try to prove we only have to have faith and nothing else, but look at these scriptures, they PROVE the not of works is about the purification works such as CIRCUMCISION:

Romans 2:25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.

Romans 2:27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

Romans 2:28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.

Romans 2:29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God

.Romans 3:1 [ God’s Faithfulness ] What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?

Romans 4:11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.

 

[GodB4Us]

Paul is speaking about circumcision, and the scriptures say so.

PAUL IS SPEAKING ABOUT CIRCUMCISION.

See all these scriptures where he SAYS it is about the works of the law WHICH IS ABOUT CIRCUMCISION and the other purification works.


Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

Galatians 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Galatians 5:11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished.

Galatians 6:11 Not Circumcision but the New Creation
See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.

Galatians 6:15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.


Nowhere anywhere has Paul said it is not by repenting of sins. He is speaking against the purification works of the law.

You also brought up Titus to try to prove you only have to have faith---but look at these scriptures, it shows us it is about not doing the works of circumcision.


Titus 1:10

Rebuking Those Who Fail to Do Good

For there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception, especially those of the circumcision group.

Galatians 2:3 Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek.


You also brought up Romans to try to prove we only have to have faith and nothing else, but look at these scriptures, they PROVE the not of works is about the purification works such as CIRCUMCISION:

Romans 2:25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.

Romans 2:27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

Romans 2:28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.

Romans 2:29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God

.Romans 3:1 [ God’s Faithfulness ] What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?

Romans 4:11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.

As important as some believers make about water baptism as if necessary for the remission of sins and salvation, when believing in Him is how we get the remission of sins, you seem to be in that mental disposition that a sinner has to do something other than believe in Him to get that remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost as in born again of the Spirit and thus salvation obtained and by the grace of God too. That free gift of eternal life cannot be earned, now can it?

But somehow all your preaching doesn't really convey God's grace at all let alone how you can still call to a free gift.