GOD Money Taxes

[seanpatrick]

Hi I am new here was concerned as a christian with the amount of ministries that became super ministries what's your take on these ministries and the fact of the abuse of power and money. Should these ministries be held accountable and my other debate on this how do you feel about them selling god to make profits books etc.

 

[amadeus2]

First a question in need of an answer is, who determines which ministries are "super ministries"?

And then should any Christian or Christian group pay taxes to a secular entity or government? Who determines who are Christians and who are not? Consider this conversation between Simon Peter and Jesus:

Mat 17:25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
Mat 17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

Who are the "children" and who are "strangers"?

 

[seanpatrick]

Here is a example that a few of these people have shown a abuse of power Cashing In On Church: The Richest Mega Pastors in America - trendchaser

 

[seanpatrick]

Just like banks that are to big to fail I believe that a church should be held accountable I mean come on look at Calvary chapel as a example that's considered a super ministry when it becomes a monopoly and pastors are making more then a million a year something is wrong or even less. You making profits off people on a large scale for your own personal gain no taxes that's the biggest ponzi scheme. When is the greed gonna end that money should be going to people that need it. yes a big fancy church is nice but that's not needed and fellowship is needed without money poisoning gods works.

1 Tim 6:10; For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

 

[seanpatrick]

Acts 8:18; Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,
Acts 8:19; saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
Acts 8:20; But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!
Acts 8:21; "You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.
Acts 8:22; "Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Brother @seanpatrick

Lately I've wondered this as well, however in a wider scope when looking at the paying of taxes. It reminded me of the conversation between Jesus and the Pharisees.

"Tell us, therefore, what do You think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?" 18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, "Why do you test Me, [you] hypocrites? 19 "Show Me the tax money." So they brought Him a denarius. 20 And He said to them, "Whose image and inscription [is] this?" 21 They said to Him, "Caesar's." And He said to them, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." Matthew 22:17-21

So, is it lawful that churches, in this case super ministries be taxed? The law allows exceptions for the churches. Should the church accept this?

Paul speaks on a view that we should keep in consideration when looking at others. Just a quick look at some of these folks has our hackles up. Especially as we see the opulence of those who are called (?) to lead God's Flock. I've highlighted the area I think is particularly pertinent.

Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 In this case, moreover, it is required of stewards that one be found trustworthy. 3 But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself. 4 For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord. 5 Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God. 1 Corinthians 4:1-5

However, the reverse will come to those that you see readily in Matthew 23 that are misguided in the belief that they are doing all these things for Christ while their hearts are impure with the lusts of wealth. The resulting actions can easily be equated with their end also mentioned in the Gospel of Matthew.

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' Matthew 7:21-23

It's difficult to see what many would consider abuses of leadership in today's church, but do not let it deter you from praying heavenward for those who so abuse!!! The cost is greater in the hereafter then many realize. Do we want them punished or changed?

Either way it is rightfully in God's hands and not our own. Sometimes we are preoccupied with the temporal, which is temporary/transitory, while the things that are Eternal/Spiritual we neglect. Don't let this be the case!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
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Oh, by the way..........WELCOME TO TALK JESUS!!!!!

 

[B-A-C]

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's. Give to God what is God's. Jesus didn't tell anyone to dodge taxes.
My church is eligible for 501c3. But we don't take advantage of it. Oh I'm sure many of the congregation uses tithing as a tax write off,
but the church itself does not want to be tied to government rules. Also there are rumors of those rules getting tighter (same sex weddings, etc..)
to qualify for those exemptions.

 

[Curtis]

Just like banks that are to big to fail I believe that a church should be held accountable I mean come on look at Calvary chapel as a example that's considered a super ministry when it becomes a monopoly and pastors are making more then a million a year something is wrong or even less. You making profits off people on a large scale for your own personal gain no taxes that's the biggest ponzi scheme. When is the greed gonna end that money should be going to people that need it. yes a big fancy church is nice but that's not needed and fellowship is needed without money poisoning gods works.

1 Tim 6:10; For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

I am reminded of something Jesus once said......

Luke 6:26 "Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.

You would think if every one is speaking "well" of you, then you are doing a good job. Jesus was speaking this to the religious leaders of his day. They were very well off in riches, and things. It is not hard to grow a rather large Church if all you say to it's members is good things that make them feel warm, and fuzzy inside. Nobody taught the Word of God better, and with more an anointing than Jesus Christ, yet many people hated him. Many would come to hear his Words, and sometimes the many people all left never to return because of what he said.

Sometimes the pastor, teacher hast to step on the toes of the sheep because they are not doing what is right, and many times the sheep leave never to return because of it. People are more willing to give money into a ministry that makes them feel warm, and good about themselves. If the pastor teacher brings any kind of rebuke, in which they are in need of, they leave. The truth is not found with the majority, it is found with the few.

 

[Brad Huber]

They are already being held accountable by the Great Judge. Allowing corrupt secular governments to be the ones to decide how to run a church, opens a door that all Christians would wish had stayed closed.