God is in Control

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Brothers, @PloughBoy @Admon Mikha'el
Please keep away from the personal attacks. Unnecessary, and uncomely for those in Christ Jesus. If the need is still there after prayer, then maybe a Private Message to the other person (PM). No one else need be involved in you alls tit-for-tat.

I ask this as a Brother in Christ, but also as a Moderator.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Dear Brothers, @PloughBoy @Admon Mikha'el
Please keep away from the personal attacks. Unnecessary, and uncomely for those in Christ Jesus. If the need is still there after prayer, then maybe a Private Message to the other person (PM). No one else need be involved in you alls tit-for-tat.

I ask this as a Brother in Christ, but also as a Moderator.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

I'm sorry...Agression is one of the symptoms of this disease I'm fighting...I cannot control that, so if it gets too bad, please ban me.

 

[Gregoryp]

1Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

If God desires all men to be saved, why aren't they?

they arent saved because there hearts, eyes and ears are closed They are firmly embedded in the world and there fleshy desires. Of course God would prefer that none shall perish, but sadly the majority will, including false christians.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I'm sorry...Agression is one of the symptoms of this disease I'm fighting...I cannot control that, so if it gets too bad, please ban me.

To name a few symptoms:

• Severe dementia
• Aggressive behavior
• Depression
• Increased risk of falling and injury
• Worsening of parkinsonian signs and symptoms, such as tremors
• Death, on average about seven to eight years after symptoms start

 

[Samson2020]

If I may?

God started the whole thing in order to have children that are the spitting image of Himself. He had even appointed Jesus to be the One through whom He would reconcile the world
back unto Himself. Now in order to reconcile, one must let go of all that are to be reconciled.

We understand that God had condemned ALL men because of what Adam did. Rom 5:18 This was the decree or act that let go of all men unto bondage of sin and death. Thus it was planned.

After all did not God create the serpent? Could God have not kept Eve from the serpent? Did not God put the tree in the garden? Did not God have Adam elsewhere in the garden while Eve
was being deceived? Does God know the end from the beginning? Why didn't He stop it from happening?

He knew exactly what was to happen for it was set up by Him to occur. This should be quite obvious.

Now when they had partaken from the tree of good and evil did not God say "the man has become as one of us"? Now remove the tree of life lest he should partake and live forever.

So then, remembering that Gods plan was to have children, they needed the knowledge of good and evil in order to "be like Him" as He said. This knowledge has been forced upon man
since the one original sin so that all are partakers of that knowledge. The creature was subject to vanity, not willingly but by reason of Him who subjected the same in hope. Rom 8:20

Now the one man that was just as Adam, in that He was born outside of a carnal mind, was Jesus. After Jesus completed His perfecting process, according to Gods will, He then became a
life giving Spirit, thus completing the very first of Gods New Creation. Rev 3:14 A Son who became a God. Jesus partook of both good and evil, though He sinned not, but partook of the knowledge of that fruit. He eventually took upon himself a carnal mind in the garden of Gethsemane prior to crucifixion along with the sin of the world, all by design of the Father.

Now that He has been resurrected, those whom the Father has chosen to be the first fruits unto Himself and the Lamb, are being perfected according to the same process.

Since it was and is Gods plan, and He had it layed out before the foundation of the world, how is it even remotely possible that God would allow
any man, made lower than the angels, to change His mind or counsel Him as to why He should do anything different than that that was layed out by Him eons ago?

He works all things according to the counsel of His own will. Ephesians 1:11 And we are all here at this time according to His will.

Lastly as an analogy, If my goal was to drive say from Miami to Seattle, would it matter what route I took as long as I arrived in Seattle at the appointed time?
In the same way as Gods intent is to create a son like Him your arrival at that point is already decided by Him and according to His time line, though you may think you have
control over what you do or say etc... it's almost irrelevant because He has already decided when and where you are to arrive at His destination for you.

Now lets not anyone say that I'm promoting sin, as I am not, but to whom much is forgiven the same loveth much, and to whom little is forgiven the same loveth litte.

Your will could be summed up by the words of James who said:

James 4:13-16 " Go to now, ye that say, To day or To morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell and get gain: Whereas ye know not what shall
be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, then vanisheth away. FOR THAT YE OUGHT TO SAY, IF THE LORD WILL, WE SHALL LIVE, AND
DO THIS, OR THAT. But now ye rejoice in your boastings : ALL SUCH REJOICING IS EVIL."

Mans will is the result of a carnal mind that is at odds with God. Do we really think that mind is actually in control of anything????

 

[Christ4Ever]

Did not God have Adam elsewhere in the garden while Eve
was being deceived?

Dear Brother,
The answer to this question would be "No". I believe the implication of the following verse is that Adam was there with her. Sadly, I almost think that Adam wanted to see if what God had told him would happen and is why he didn't stop her. Here is the verse I look at that makes me believe that Adam was present with Eve during the deception.

Gen 3:6 KJV - And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Enjoyed the read. Thanks for sharing.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Samson2020]

I would agree with you that when read that verse appears to be saying they were together at the time she partook of the tree. However, it was the woman that was deceived, not Adam,
and it was Eve that was beguiled by the serpent, so if they were together then Adam would have heard what Eve heard, but it never says that Adam was the one that was deceived. So he never heard the lie, so he could not have been with her.
Conclusion: Adam was not there at the time Eve was deceived, she partook, then gave also to her husband at a later time. They were both in the garden just a matter of how close together when it happened. Maybe 100 yards? maybe 1/2 mile who knows.
Needless to say Adam never heard what the serpent had said, he only disobeyed Gods direct command which Eve had never heard directly from God, she had only been told by Adam.

 

[Samson2020]

That said this thread is really over free will??????

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I would agree with you that when read that verse appears to be saying they were together at the time she partook of the tree. However, it was the woman that was deceived, not Adam,
and it was Eve that was beguiled by the serpent, so if they were together then Adam would have heard what Eve heard, but it never says that Adam was the one that was deceived. So he never heard the lie, so he could not have been with her.
Conclusion: Adam was not there at the time Eve was deceived, she partook, then gave also to her husband at a later time. They were both in the garden just a matter of how close together when it happened. Maybe 100 yards? maybe 1/2 mile who knows.
Needless to say Adam never heard what the serpent had said, he only disobeyed Gods direct command which Eve had never heard directly from God, she had only been told by Adam.

I do get a kick out of how Christians like to tell about how Eve was deceived....What about how Adam CHOSE to disobey God...The bible does not refer to this event as the sin of Eve, but the sin of Adam.....It was ADAM not Eve who let us all down... If Eve had not been beguiled then Satan would have found a way around it and would have gotten Adam to sin. He didn't need Eve but women are trusting souls and much easier to trick than men are...Men tend to think with hormones where women are cnncerned and that make Adam beguiled as well....And then like a coward....Adam blames his wife for the fall instead of being a man and taking responsibility.

 

[Samson2020]

I do get a kick out of how Christians like to tell about how Eve was deceived....What about how Adam CHOSE to disobey God...The bible does not refer to this event as the sin of Eve, but the sin of Adam.....It was ADAM not Eve who let us all down... If Eve had not been beguiled then Satan would have found a way around it and would have gotten Adam to sin. He didn't need Eve but women are trusting souls and much easier to trick than men are...Men tend to think with hormones where women are cnncerned and that make Adam beguiled as well....And then like a coward....Adam blames his wife for the fall instead of being a man and taking responsibility.

However, it was the woman that was deceived, not Adam,

Needless to say Adam never heard what the serpent had said, he only disobeyed Gods direct command

Both points are in the post.

Romans 5:18 specifically points out that all men were condemned because of what Adam did. Doesn't say anything about Eve being at fault.

But as I mentioned earlier the thread has turned into a free will, or not, thread and that was my intention was showing what God was up to and that man was just the means to an end so to speak.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Both points are in the post.

Romans 5:18 specifically points out that all men were condemned because of what Adam did. Doesn't say anything about Eve being at fault.

But as I mentioned earlier the thread has turned into a free will, or not, thread and that was my intention was showing what God was up to and that man was just the means to an end so to speak.

So it was the woman who was deceived.... It was ADAM who sinned....She did not make Adam sin...Adam chose....Satan made it easy, that's what he does, but ADAM chose to sin.

You're assuming that Adam did not hear Satan talking to Eve...You're assuming Adam was in the other part of the garden....Your entire stance on this is assumption....What does the Word say?

 

[PloughBoy]

So it was the woman who was deceived.... It was ADAM who sinned....She did not make Adam sin...Adam chose....Satan made it easy, that's what he does, but ADAM chose to sin.

You're assuming that Adam did not hear Satan talking to Eve...You're assuming Adam was in the other part of the garden....Your entire stance on this is assumption....What does the Word say?

To be men, how are you missing it.
1, Adam was alone,So GOD made him a mate
2. She was "fine" from Head to toe. She commented the wind, when she walked. as her hair swayed from side to side, she was "Perfect" and ADAM senses, was at its best heights. for he was a "ALPHA" and The way she turn her head to look at him. I betcha he did't want to go fishing And it was not over with yet.
3. Every where she went, he followed. He watching her, while she scopes out the garden." This a new creature created for him'. Walking around stiff, like a iron rod naked. She grab his hand, and look down and ask him what is that?

4. I do not know what he name it, But he might have told her, what the animals had been doing, So she, said lets try it He said ok. GAME OVER!
5. And when he did, The 1st, "Almond JOY" the 1st PERFECT, that Launch on Planet EARTH by a "man" and she followed right behind HIM, He most likely passed out. And when he woke up, She had that "Fruit" from that Tree in Her hand. While he was sleep, and by the time he woke up, that devil had gone. And she look at him, and put her hand on his chest, and laid her leg across his, and put one those grapes across his lips, No questions ask, "He ATE"! "You would too"! She was fine and every thing about her was "Top DOG" Every thing about her was "PERFECT"
6. another time.
7.The LORD said; Have you eaten from that tree that I told you, that the day you eat from it, you shall surely die?.......ADAM said: "THAT WOMEN "YOU gave me, she gave me the fruit of the tree and I ATE! "in other words, you did this to me" God you knew how i was going to act. That pretty slow moving creature, that nothing on the land can sway like this creature here. "stolen waters are sweet" and her lips drips like honey. her words are so smooth like oil. For she was "perfect". In describing her here, she was a 100% more, when she walked in the garden the birds stop there singing, and gave her a look for the second time.

and. ADAM is saying; you knew what kind of affect that she was going to have on him, That women, so "Heighten" his senses, her smell, and the way she move, he had feelings he has never felt, the way she look at him. And Oh boy, when she put her arms around him, and his body grew into full Mating mode. And Oh boy, and then "Almond JOY" hit him, He passed out He passed out!, You would have too! And the devil got busy talking to EVE, Adam right there with her and he sleep He was out for the count.

Eve was something else. and she was perfect, and when she move, game over! Her legs and toes, and those "Pomegranates" she had. Made ADAM forget that there was A "GOD"! Even if it was a GOD. "if Loving you is wrong, i do Not want to do Right" THE WAY SHE MADE HIM FEEL. SHE most likely blew in his ear. There is nothing like a women into you, and the way she touches you. That is why the Bible tells a young man, RUN, FLEE, because if do not Run, when she slap those "Spiritual Handcuffs"on you, you feet cannot move. In a corrupted world let alone a perfect.

What is wrong with you men. You know what happen to "ADAM" and GOD made sure ADAM was going fill up the earth! And He gave him the desirers and the equipment to do it with. and the "Motivation" as well.

All of this, is in your Bible, Explicitly and Implicitly, pertaining to the effects, that women have on men. And the out come has been ,so "ordain" By "GOD" for his purposes and not ours. All to the GLORY of GOD.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

To be men, how are you missing it.
1, Adam was alone,So GOD made him a mate
2. She was "fine" from Head to toe. She commented the wind, when she walked. as her hair swayed from side to side, she was "Perfect" and ADAM senses, was at its best heights. for he was a "ALPHA" and The way she turn her head to look at him. I betcha he did't want to go fishing And it was not over with yet.
3. Every where she went, he followed. He watching her, while she scopes out the garden." This a new creature created for him'. Walking around stiff, like a iron rod naked. She grab his hand, and look down and ask him what is that?

4. I do not know what he name it, But he might have told her, what the animals had been doing, So she, said lets try it He said ok. GAME OVER!
5. And when he did, The 1st, "Almond JOY" the 1st PERFECT, that Launch on Planet EARTH by a "man" and she followed right behind HIM, He most likely passed out. And when he woke up, She had that "Fruit" from that Tree in Her hand. While he was sleep, and by the time he woke up, that devil had gone. And she look at him, and put her hand on his chest, and laid her leg across his, and put one those grapes across his lips, No questions ask, "He ATE"! "You would too"! She was fine and every thing about her was "Top DOG" Every thing about her was "PERFECT"
6. another time.
7.The LORD said; Have you eaten from that tree that I told you, that the day you eat from it, you shall surely die?.......ADAM said: "THAT WOMEN "YOU gave me, she gave me the fruit of the tree and I ATE! "in other words, you did this to me" God you knew how i was going to act. That pretty slow moving creature, that nothing on the land can sway like this creature here. "stolen waters are sweet" and her lips drips like honey. her words are so smooth like oil. For she was "perfect". In describing her here, she was a 100% more, when she walked in the garden the birds stop there singing, and gave her a look for the second time.

and. ADAM is saying; you knew what kind of affect that she was going to have on him, That women, so "Heighten" his senses, her smell, and the way she move, he had feelings he has never felt, the way she look at him. And Oh boy, when she put her arms around him, and his body grew into full Mating mode. And Oh boy, and then "Almond JOY" hit him, He passed out He passed out!, You would have too! And the devil got busy talking to EVE, Adam right there with her and he sleep He was out for the count.

Eve was something else. and she was perfect, and when she move, game over! Her legs and toes, and those "Pomegranates" she had. Made ADAM forget that there was A "GOD"! Even if it was a GOD. "if Loving you is wrong, i do Not want to do Right" THE WAY SHE MADE HIM FEEL. SHE most likely blew in his ear. There is nothing like a women into you, and the way she touches you. That is why the Bible tells a young man, RUN, FLEE, because if do not Run, when she slap those "Spiritual Handcuffs"on you, you feet cannot move. In a corrupted world let alone a perfect.

What is wrong with you men. You know what happen to "ADAM" and GOD made sure ADAM was going fill up the earth! And He gave him the desirers and the equipment to do it with. and the "Motivation" as well.

All of this, is in your Bible, Explicitly and Implicitly, pertaining to the effects, that women have on men. And the out come has been ,so "ordain" By "GOD" for his purposes and not ours. All to the GLORY of GOD.

So you're saying that it was Eve's fault that Adam chose to disobey God....And you fictionalize the rest of the bible too?

 

[PloughBoy]

So you're saying that it was Eve's fault that Adam chose to disobey God....And you fictionalize the rest of the bible too?

The Language is called Biblical "Hyperbole"

I don't speak for the Bible, for how can a mere worm as i, even attempt to do so, for the bible speaks for it self.. For He is "The Lion of the Tribe of Judah", The "Ancient of Days" needs no one. For He is GOD all by HIMSELF. I am nothing, but i piece of dirt, a mist of vapor, blowing away in The wind. GOD speaks for Himself. And "The lion has come up from his thicket, And the destroyer of nations is on his way"

PS.... IN Ghetto vernacular, with no animosity, but a culture "idiom" may i say this: "if you cannot hang with The big Dogs, don't get off the Porch"

you warming up yet?

 

[Christ4Ever]

I would agree with you that when read that verse appears to be saying they were together at the time she partook of the tree. However, it was the woman that was deceived, not Adam,
and it was Eve that was beguiled by the serpent, so if they were together then Adam would have heard what Eve heard, but it never says that Adam was the one that was deceived. So he never heard the lie, so he could not have been with her.
Conclusion: Adam was not there at the time Eve was deceived, she partook, then gave also to her husband at a later time. They were both in the garden just a matter of how close together when it happened. Maybe 100 yards? maybe 1/2 mile who knows.
Needless to say Adam never heard what the serpent had said, he only disobeyed Gods direct command which Eve had never heard directly from God, she had only been told by Adam.

Dear Brother,
I can not say he was not there, when the implication that I get from reading the verse provided is that he was. Which you would agree with. I would agree with you also, that the deception was Eve's, but fault as seen in Scripture is not assigned to her, but to Adam. So, I have to take Scripture at face value since in the same verse it also implies that they ate of it together, otherwise one could easily surmise that Adam did not know what fruit he was eating, since no word is shown that a conversation took place between Eve & Adam to the effect to what she was giving him. Also, if it was at different times that the fruit was eaten by both of them as you suggest, then why did Eve's eyes not open immediately after she ate it, but had to wait until Adam partook of said fruit as well?

Looking at it that way, one might imply that it was necessary for Adam to partake in order for what God had said to occur, so that if Adam had not eaten of the fruit given to him by Eve, then nothing would have happened to Eve as the result of her eating of the forbidden fruit. At least that is how I would analyze it if I would to conclude as you have the event in question taking place at different times.

With all that being said, one can extrapolate easily from what one reads in Scripture to a point that is not there. Which from what I've seen over the years happens way to often. Usually the simplest answer is the one that is most obvious from what is written. In this case, Adam was present for the Eve & Serpent exchange, but choose not to intervene, and since Eve ate first and nothing happened, he was willing to partake of the fruit as well, thereby falling for the Serpents lies as well. See how easily one can surmise events that are not necessarily clearly written into evidence?

I guess one day we will know for sure!
Thanks for the exchange.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Samson2020]

Dear Brother,
I can not say he was not there, when the implication that I get from reading the verse provided is that he was. Which you would agree with. I would agree with you also, that the deception was Eve's, but fault as seen in Scripture is not assigned to her, but to Adam. So, I have to take Scripture at face value since in the same verse it also implies that they ate of it together, otherwise one could easily surmise that Adam did not know what fruit he was eating, since no word is shown that a conversation took place between Eve & Adam to the effect to what she was giving him. Also, if it was at different times that the fruit was eaten by both of them as you suggest, then why did Eve's eyes not open immediately after she ate it, but had to wait until Adam partook of said fruit as well?

Looking at it that way, one might imply that it was necessary for Adam to partake in order for what God had said to occur, so that if Adam had not eaten of the fruit given to him by Eve, then nothing would have happened to Eve as the result of her eating of the forbidden fruit. At least that is how I would analyze it if I would to conclude as you have the event in question taking place at different times.

With all that being said, one can extrapolate easily from what one reads in Scripture to a point that is not there. Which from what I've seen over the years happens way to often. Usually the simplest answer is the one that is most obvious from what is written. In this case, Adam was present for the Eve & Serpent exchange, but choose not to intervene, and since Eve ate first and nothing happened, he was willing to partake of the fruit as well, thereby falling for the Serpents lies as well. See how easily one can surmise events that are not necessarily clearly written into evidence?

I guess one day we will know for sure!
Thanks for the exchange.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

I agree there are 2 camps of assumption on the subject in question. And yes someday we will know the specifics, like who was Cains wife.

I would also apologize for even including it in my post #45 for that is the least thing in the post as far as spiritual insight was concerned.

I used to be somewhat amazed at how a single line in a post was blown up to change a thread into what it was not intended to be.

But now I have concluded that most cannot see the forest for the trees. The deeper things are never discussed for we get to involved in examining tree bark, and arguing over the exact color
of and or texture, missing the beauty of the forest completely.

After all did not God create the serpent? Could God have not kept Eve from the serpent? Did not God put the tree in the garden? Did not God have Adam elsewhere in the garden while Eve
was being deceived? Does God know the end from the beginning? Why didn't He stop it from happening?

My original first few questions, and as you can see from the above postings there was only the one most irrelevant thing that was even discussed. Sad.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

The Language is called Biblical "Hyperbole"

I don't speak for the Bible, for how can a mere worm as i, even attempt to do so, for the bible speaks for it self.. For He is "The Lion of the Tribe of Judah", The "Ancient of Days" needs no one. For He is GOD all by HIMSELF. I am nothing, but i piece of dirt, a mist of vapor, blowing away in The wind. GOD speaks for Himself. And "The lion has come up from his thicket, And the destroyer of nations is on his way"

PS.... IN Ghetto vernacular, with no animosity, but a culture "idiom" may i say this: "if you cannot hang with The big Dogs, don't get off the Porch"

you warming up yet?

The Language is called Biblical "Hyperbole"

I don't speak for the Bible, for how can a mere worm as i, even attempt to do so, for the bible speaks for it self.. For He is "The Lion of the Tribe of Judah", The "Ancient of Days" needs no one. For He is GOD all by HIMSELF. I am nothing, but i piece of dirt, a mist of vapor, blowing away in The wind. GOD speaks for Himself. And "The lion has come up from his thicket, And the destroyer of nations is on his way"

PS.... IN Ghetto vernacular, with no animosity, but a culture "idiom" may i say this: "if you cannot hang with The big Dogs, don't get off the Porch"

you warming up yet?

The Language is called Biblical "Hyperbole"

I don't speak for the Bible, for how can a mere worm as i, even attempt to do so, for the bible speaks for it self.. For He is "The Lion of the Tribe of Judah", The "Ancient of Days" needs no one. For He is GOD all by HIMSELF. I am nothing, but i piece of dirt, a mist of vapor, blowing away in The wind. GOD speaks for Himself. And "The lion has come up from his thicket, And the destroyer of nations is on his way"

PS.... IN Ghetto vernacular, with no animosity, but a culture "idiom" may i say this: "if you cannot hang with The big Dogs, don't get off the Porch"

you warming up yet?

Well, that was good for a giggle...You're a funny man PB

 

[Br. Bear]

you warming up yet?

what to?

 

[Christ4Ever]

After all did not God create the serpent? Could God have not kept Eve from the serpent? Did not God put the tree in the garden? Did not God have Adam elsewhere in the garden while Eve
was being deceived? Does God know the end from the beginning? Why didn't He stop it from happening?

He knew exactly what was to happen for it was set up by Him to occur. This should be quite obvious.

My original first few questions, and as you can see from the above postings there was only the one most irrelevant thing that was even discussed. Sad.

Dear Brother,
I chose the one that was questionable, as seen by Scripture. Instead of the ones that moved one mostly into the realm of conjecture on what God's Motivation/Reasoning is. Doing so reminds me of what God says in Isaiah 55:8.
"For My thoughts [are] not your thoughts, Nor [are] your ways My ways," says the LORD.

I also believe I chose rightly, especially considering your last line in the first quoted post.

When I was younger, I often would contemplate on the "Why's", but now as I've grown older I no longer allow them to weigh me down as they used to.
I have sufficient occurrences in my daily life in general to live with without adding to them.

With all that being said.
God bless, and I pray that you have a wonderful day that the Lord has made!
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

what to?

PB was just being snide at me...