Further, go to a jewish site, not messianic or christian faking they are a Jewish site, and look how they interpret isaiah, in particular look how they interpret the servants' songs vs how christians interpret those same text.
Gay : The final sign
- Thread starter Bethel
- Start date
Brother Paul
Active
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2012
- Messages
- 1,046
N
No! It is sodomy (hetero or homo). And all are sinners worthy of condemnation even you. Salvation is by grace and Jesus died for any or all sinners even you lust minded fornicators and self appointed judges. I will bet you have imagined sodomy or even did this.
That is about abiding in Him as His disciples. If a believer sins, they are not abiding in Him as they ought even though He still abides in them, but because they are living in sin, they are grieving the Holy Spirit in them ( Ephesians 4:30 ) for why they should turn to Jesus Christ for help to lay aside that sin and the weights ( provisions for the flesh ) daily in running that race ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ) to be accepted by Him ( 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 ) as that vessel unto honor in His House; 9 2 Timothy 2:19-21 ) otherwise, they will be excommunicated from the Marriage Supper in Heaven ( 1 Corinthians 5:4-11 ) and left on earth to die ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & Revelation 2:18-24 ), but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House.
That is not what John says here. If you abide in him, you do not sin. If you sin, you do not know him. Yet, every Christians I know says that all sin. By this criteria, no one is christian, and no one knows him.
The point being is that if you judge gays to be sinners, then you have done nothing more then point out that they are just like you and you have no advantage in believing that you are a christian when John points out that you cannot be.
The divorce rate of atheists are lower than the divorce rate of evangelicals. Rather than rain hate on people that do not believe like you, we should try and actually be Christans so that we are not shown to be hypocrits. It is our job to show love to all, espeacially to those who do not believe like we believe.
Here are the sins of Sodom.
Ezekiel 16:48 As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters. 49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
Below is why homosexuality is growing in America by how sex appeal & the pride of life is glamorized in the media.
1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Lust of he flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of life is how a sinner and even a believer sows to the flesh in reaping corruption as some will lead into homosexuality.
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
We live in America which I suspect in God's eye, is the most persecuted Christian nation in the world because apostasy abounds and not just pride of vanity in the churches, but now in the media and society as well
Children grow up influence by comic books, barbie dolls, ripped abs muscle bound action figures, media, catalogues, advertisements, and society's expectations of one's appearance in public, as it creates a desire to be accepted, thus a rat race which is done at other people's expense.
2 Corinthians 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? if any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.
1 Peter 3:Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. 3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. 5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. 8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: 9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. 10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: 11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
Here is one for a quick self check with the Lord Jesus Christ for abiding in Him is how we treat the poor or those that do not aspire to society's demands for public acceptance & approval when survival is all that is on their minds.
James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? 7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? 8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
You are taking that verse out of context for the message john is giving.
1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
This is about those who profess Him and yet live in sin as John is guiding believers not to follow after them when you apply verse 7.
That Book of 1 John is about believers whom had believed that sin was no longer sin to them, so that when they sin, they believed they have not sin because sin is no longer sin to them. This is why john points to how we walk as He did.
1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
By running that race daily in looking to Jesus to help us lay aside every weight & sin is how we are abiding in Him by walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son. Note verse 9 below.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
So any sin, that a believer is into that he or she is not looking to Jesus daily to help them not to sin, is a saved believer not abiding in Him as they ought to.
You and even Christians are trying to apply the Book of 1 John as if Christians can never sin, but John did write this;
1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
So couple that with 1 John 1:9, is proof you are not applying His words right in regards to this issue. This is about discerning who is abiding in Him and those that profess Him and yet are not abiding in Him so believcers know to not follow after their deeds. Another example of this warning is below.
2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
So what we show towards is why God is not mocked.
Galatians 6:1Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.... 7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
So if a saved believer sows to the works of the flesh and reap corruption, they are at risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes. They are still saved as former believers are, even though left behind, He still abides in them for why when they die, their spirits will be with the Lord to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation.
2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
God will be judging His House first ( 1 Peter 4:17 ) as Jesus did warn false prophets will come in and lead many astray.
Now since the churches are that bad now, how bad is it for sinners to ever know the truth of their need for Jesus Christ to save them from their sins when society is telling them that homosexuality is not a sin? Very bad indeed.
Hello,
I am not. You are adding words that are not there to derive a spin that is not supported by the words that are there.
There is no words in here to say that it applies to:
It says sin.
Christians say that all sin. It is common to confess that a person sins everyday. Even if your added words to scripture were actually there, sinning everyday is living in sin.
1 John 1:9 & 1 John 2:1-2 proves you are not understanding the message for which the apostle John is giving nor what issues he was really addressing which is about believers living in sin thinking sin is no longer sin if they do it.
He GodB4Us,
I am sorry if this distress you. But you cannot add words to scripture. There is nothing in those two verses that states it only applies to those people who continue in a sin rather than a person who sins, And it is common for Christians to allow themselves the rationalization to sin by stating that everyone sins, everyday. You are only rightous, if you are rightous.
I am not distressed at all.
I just pointed to scripture in that same Book of 1 John. Here they are again; 1 John 1:9 & 1 John 2:1-2 Christians still sin but are to confess them and ask Jesus for help not to do it again.
John is addressing believers who believe sin is not a sin to them any more; like homosexuals that are Christians that believe homosexuality is not a sin at all.
If you are not a believer anyway, how can I take you seriously when you ignore 1 John 1:9 & 1 John 2:1-2? The reference you pointed out was addressing little children to know who to fellowship with that are abiding in Him from those that are not.
I am more than a believer. I do not ignore the contrary message message in 1 John, I just refuse to add my own words to scripture to rationalize it. Like when Paul and David say no one is righteous, yet Jesus and a number of other say there are righteous. I acknowledge the contradiction without putting my words into their mouth.
Seriously? Litteraly, in the Greek the writer/writers of 1 John say "born ones" which connotes John as a father talking to the christians as his children. It is a diminutive expression of affection.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Everyone who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 Everyone who commits sin is a child of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The Son of God was revealed for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Those who have been born of God do not sin, because God’s seed abides in them;[b] they cannot sin, because they have been born of God.
Here is John expressing the idea that you are what you do. If you sin, you are a sinner, not of God. If you do righteous, you are righteous. You do not get to think that you are a Christian and it is still ok to sin-any kind of sin. People gotta stop thinking that they are a christian, yet still sin everyday.
AnneOminous
Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2022
- Messages
- 200
Are you gay?
I am not, nor do I know anyone who declares themselves to be gay.
Who are you anonymous? Bone man? Are you gay?
AnneOminous
Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2022
- Messages
- 200
Yes I am Boneman.... I'm AnneOminous... I'm Allison Wonderland.
No, I'm not gay. Clear enough?
Okay. I apologize for not discerning whether or not you were a believer, but you are still judging yourself if you think about it because not applying 1 John 1:9 & 1 John 2:1-2 to align with what you are applying that other scripture in the Book of 1 John is you adding to his words by misapplying His words.
Now go back over your quoted reference. John is addressing little ones, babes in Christ, to know the difference between a professing believer abiding in Him by how they are doing righteousness and from those that do not. John did not want those who profess Him and yet live in sin to deceive those little ones.
These deceivers were telling others that sin was no longer sin to them when they do it. That is the point of the message of correction & rebuke here below.
1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Now so as t mot misunderstand your reference for how you are applying that to mean no born again believer can ever sin, is contrary to the above reference and the one below where John acknowledges that a believer can still sin.
1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
So how do we align your reference again? By noting how John is instructing the little children not to be deceived by those who profess Him and yet have gone astray by living in unrepentant sinful lifestyle. As there may be sinners lying about being a believer for why they should doubt they are born of God, but yet not to judge them as not born of God when obviously, saved believers can still sin but are to confess it, repent from sin by asking Jesus to help them not to do that again, whereas these deceivers were not confessing nor repenting from their sins because they refuse to acknowledge them as sins to confess & repent of.
That is the message given for why we cannot apply verse 9 as if any believer sins, he is not really a believer, or not a really Christian, but instead, are called to correct them by the scripture and if unrepentant, to excommunicate or withdraw from fellowship until they do repent.
Galatians 6:1Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
1 Corinthias 15:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
So when Jesus excommunicates believers not abiding in Him at the rapture event ( revelation 2:18-25 ), they are given over to Satan whom will wage war on the saints to kill them like in 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 above so their spirit may be saved in that day of Christ. As it is, running that race is not for obtaining salvation but to be accepted by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven. 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 & 2 Timothy 2:19-21
