Garbage

[revbrad]

Spiritual prosperity alone does not amout to All sufficiency in all things

No it does not but.......God told Paul "My grace is sufficient"

Sufficient is not abundance, sufficient is what is needed.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Yup HE did. "My grace (empowering presence) is sufficient to meet your need of getting rid of this thorn in the flesh" Ok Now you have a town destroyed by a flood. People wandering around with no homes, food, or water. That takes money to remedy. Is your puny paycheck sufficient to meet the need? Yeah. Neither is mine. But Jehovah Jireh our provider can meet that need easily, but how can HE if we won't believe HIS WORD concerning it?
To say "All I need is just enough to meet my needs...blah blah blah" is the ultimate selfishness. We have the resources to meet any need and we are to self centered and too self righteous to do anything but pass judgement on those who do believe the I Am, and actually do, as well as teach.

I'll tell you this too. Poverty does NOT lead to Godliness. It leads to hopelessness. How can show anybody the glory of GOD if you won't even believe HIS WORD?

 

[farout]

El Hombre viejo: I would appreciate you giving some verses (in context) that salks of people prosper in everything they do. My understanding of prospering is as romans 8:29 says that we are becoming like by suffering. False teachers / preachers that I mentioned have serious financial issues and refuse to be accountable for what they do with the money they get. I have never neglected to file taxes, or to uphold my ministry with integrity and complete openness. The New Covenant you speek of, does it say it's ok to build bigger barns and keep taring down so the ministry can bring in more income? Does a ministry really need air planes, or a minister four mansons? How about income that is over one million dollars?

A ministry that wants to grow fast and bring in the bucks needs only to say they have a healing service, or preaching on how to be prosperious, or preach only on the end of time and how it will come soon, very soon! Just look at some of these health and welfare preachers / teachers and anyone who is gullible, or very desperate with something like cancer, or in desperate financial need, or scared that their salvation requirres then to give so much or work for some ministry. The things I have mentioned I have seen and was so sad that greed was really at the core of some ministries.

if you disagree with me that's fine, you have a perfect right to live as you believe Jesus would have you to live.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

El Hombre viejo: I would appreciate you giving some verses (in context) that salks of people prosper in everything they do. My understanding of prospering is as romans 8:29 says that we are becoming like by suffering. False teachers / preachers that I mentioned have serious financial issues and refuse to be accountable for what they do with the money they get. I have never neglected to file taxes, or to uphold my ministry with integrity and complete openness. The New Covenant you speek of, does it say it's ok to build bigger barns and keep taring down so the ministry can bring in more income? Does a ministry really need air planes, or a minister four mansons? How about income that is over one million dollars?

A ministry that wants to grow fast and bring in the bucks needs only to say they have a healing service, or preaching on how to be prosperious, or preach only on the end of time and how it will come soon, very soon! Just look at some of these health and welfare preachers / teachers and anyone who is gullible, or very desperate with something like cancer, or in desperate financial need, or scared that their salvation requirres then to give so much or work for some ministry. The things I have mentioned I have seen and was so sad that greed was really at the core of some ministries.

if you disagree with me that's fine, you have a perfect right to live as you believe Jesus would have you to live.

I will give you one and only one verse as a place to start. From that point, you do your own studying, (said in love, one learns best when he leans on the HOLY SPIRIT to teach him).
This verse talks of sowing and reaping.

[h=3]2 Corinthians 9:7-9[/h]King James Version (KJV)

7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.



[h=3]2 Corinthians 9:7-9[/h]Amplified Bible (AMP)

7 Let each one [give] as he has made up his own mind and purposed in his heart, not reluctantly or sorrowfully or under compulsion, for God loves (He [a]takes pleasure in, prizes above other things, and is unwilling to abandon or to do without) a cheerful (joyous, “prompt to do it”) giver [whose heart is in his giving].
8 And God is able to make all grace (every favor and [b]earthly blessing) come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need [c]be self-sufficient [possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation].
9 As it is written, He [the benevolent person] scatters abroad; He gives to the poor; His deeds of justice and goodness and kindness and benevolence will go on and endure forever!


[h=3]2 Corinthians 9:7-9[/h]Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

7 Each should give according to what he has decided in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.[a] 8 Moreover, God has the power to provide you with every gracious gift in abundance, so that always in every way you will have all you need yourselves and be able to provide abundantly for every good cause — 9 as the Tanakh says,

“He gave generously to the poor;
his tzedakah lasts forever.”[b]

Normally I don't like the Message version. I find it kind of vulgar, but that could be my own snobbery. LOL In this case though it puts the verse in a very clear light.

[h=3]2 Corinthians 9:7-11[/h]The Message (MSG)

6-7 Remember: A stingy planter gets a stingy crop; a lavish planter gets a lavish crop. I want each of you to take plenty of time to think it over, and make up your own mind what you will give. That will protect you against sob stories and arm-twisting. God loves it when the giver delights in the giving.
8-11 God can pour on the blessings in astonishing ways so that you’re ready for anything and everything, more than just ready to do what needs to be done. As one psalmist puts it,
He throws caution to the winds,
giving to the needy in reckless abandon.
His right-living, right-giving ways
never run out, never wear out.

This most generous God who gives seed to the farmer that becomes bread for your meals is more than extravagant with you. He gives you something you can then give away, which grows into full-formed lives, robust in God, wealthy in every way, so that you can be generous in every way, producing with us great praise to God.

Now read all four versions and take it to the HOLY SPIRIT. Ask HIM about it and then shut up. Just shut up and listen to HIM. HE is just aching to teach you something that will bless your socks off. Then ask HIM to show you more. You can tell HIM that I promised in HIS name that HE will show you.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

I agree that there are ministries out there that are totally unscrupulous and totally betray GODS mandate for us, but, there are many many more that are perfectly honest, legitimate. Don't throw them all out just because of one you may have encountered one of the bad ones.

I know of at least two of the ministries mentioned above, where the preacher named, sent money and food etc to Haiti. His contribution came close to matching what many governments sent. That is out of his own funds, the ministries sent huge amounts too. On their jets or hired ones.

Also many of the ministries mentioned above were charged by one Congressman in the last couple years and were checked out by and through the IRS Totally clean. Any intimation of dishonesty by you or anyone else could lead to a red face.

Look! Farout! If you choose to disbelieve that JESUS has paid for your healing, or any other part of your salvation, I will allow that you have that right, but, your opinion does not make you right. You can disbelieve the law of gravity if you want but if you step off that bridge you will splatter your opinions all over the place. GODS WORD works whether you believe it or not. JESUS paid for your salvation and if you look at it, salvation is more, oh so much more than just getting into heaven. Check it

 

[amadeus2]

Should we want to become a place where the Lord will lay His head?

The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

David was looking for such a place...

"I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids, Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob." Psalm 132:4-5

David was told what and where that habitation was to be:

"For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation. This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it." Psalm 132:13-14

So what is this Zion anyway? Zion is the city of David, which is Jerusalem (II Sam 5:5-7), but Zion is more than that. Zion is a "parched place". This is the place that you and I are, a parched, dry, dark place with no Life in us... until we drink of the "living water" and we never thirst again. When the temple is ready then Jesus, the Lord, will have a place to lay His head:

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" I Cor 3:16

So then are we to focus on the needs of the starving masses of Africa or Haiti, or should we look to what Jesus told us?

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

What are we to seek? Not natural riches or food for ourselves or for the Africans and Haitians, but God's kingdom and God's righteousness. When we do that then "all of these things" are added, but it is not you and I who decide what all of these things are. Our job is seeking the two things Jesus prescribed. Leave the decision as what is or is not needed otherwise to the Holy Ghost, our Leader... if we do not quench the Spirit with our own carnal desires. If the Holy Ghost leads us to the place where Stephen was led then the stones will end the needs of our carnal man. If our carnal man needs to eat, God will provide... but let us not seek the "loaves and the fishes":

Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you..." John 6:26-27

That meat (the flesh of Jesus) is the thing which with the Holy Ghost will make us into a place where the Lord can lay His head... in you and in me, if we will seek always first the things that Jesus did prescribe: the kingdom God and the righteousness of God; not the loaves and the fishes for us or for the Africans or for the Haitians. Help us today Lord to become Thy habitation, the place where You can lay Your head...

 

[ushalk]

Its possible to air your view without attacking a man called of GOD to minister. In talking negative of these people you yourself are in disobedience to the WORD. That puts you in danger of hyp......

You have a right to disagree with the teaching, but that does not make these teachers false prophets or anything else. And you have NO right to judge anybody. JESUS said to judge nothing before the time.

this is in fact another problem. the truth is that God has not placed every man in their positions. Jesus himself stated to beware of false prophets, he did not say they are placed their by "God. so you are putting a many people in danger of listening to anyone that claims to be a minister of the word and never testing the spirit of those doing so. that is misleading to many around the world.