free will

[Bozrah]

does this look well balanced?

I. Permissive Will - God's Perfect Will

God's exhaustive sovereignty is permissible and permits movement within His will through autonomous humans as moral agents and progressively delegates authority and responsibility to them. God's complete foreknowledge and grace of all events enables man's volition within the boundaries of His overall sovereign plan. God does not pick who will go to heaven or hell.

Romans 1:17 Mark 8:18 Romans 11:32 II Peter 3:9 I Corinthians 13:4 Revelation 3:20 Ezekiel 16:42-43


II. Perpetual Depravity - Man is stuck in Sin

Mankind is totally depraved in extensive corruption, fallen through Adam’s disobedience, marred in the image of God, unable to please God, and cannot seek salvation, unless he responds to the pricking of the Holy Spirit's convictions, and changes his mind to belief through God's faith for repentance, and cries out under God's good and prevenient grace and mercy, with working faith given from the enlightening gospel message delivered unto him by the Holy Spirit.

Genesis 6:5-6, Jeremiah 17:9, Isaiah 64:6, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Matthew 5:43-48, Matthew 13:1-8, John 6:44, Acts 2:37, Romans 2:4 I Peter 1:12 Romans 10:14-21 Jeremiah 5:21 Ezekiel 12:2 Acts 28:27 II Corinthians 4:4 I Samuel 10:19 Luke 10:16 John 3:36 Acts 7:39 I Thessalonians 4:8 I Timothy 1:19 II Timothy 3:8 Exodus 32:8 Psalms 80:14-19 Jeremiah 8:5 Jeremiah 15:6 Jeremiah 17:13-16 Matthew 24:10 II Chronicles 30:8 Ezekiel 18:30


III. Perfect Election - The saved are the elect, through specific faith

God foreknew (foreknows) the number of the elect, but does not determine their salvation decision. God patiently calls upon every man, revealing Himself with the enlightenment of his awareness through specific faith, and accepts man's decision for or against salvation. God alone knows man's final decision for or against Him and acts accordingly.

Matthew 16:17 Luke 2:26 John 12:38 Romans 1:5-17 Romans 2:5 Romans 10:20 I Corinthians 2:10 II Corinthians 4:10 Galatians 3:23 Job 13:1 Job 42:5 Proverbs 20:12 Isaiah 11:3 Isaiah 43:8 Romans 11:2-12 1 John 4:19 Matthew 22:14 Mark 13:20 John 15:19 Acts 1:24 1 Corinthians 1:27-28 Ephesians 1:4-11 (in Him) Colossians 1:27 I Thessalonians 1:4 I Peter 2:4-9 Revelation 17:14 John 12:48 Joshua 24:15-24 Deuteronomy 26:14-9 Acts 5:32 Jeremiah 32:40 II Peter 1:3-11 Romans 4:17 1 Corinthians 16:22


IV. Pertinent Atonement & Sanctification - Offered to all, applied to some

God offers His propitiation (satisfaction) of Jesus' sacrificed blood to every individual and applies the sprinkling of Christ's blood upon the mercy seat only for the elect who repent through God's specific faith in Jesus' blood sacrifice for sin, sets them aside for ministry, and prepares eternal fellowship with them, to inherit and partake in God's kingdom of light. Jesus Christ's payment for sin, through His blood atonement, is sufficient for all but efficient only for those under His cross, personally converted through Christ's direct salvation. (scripture references from KJV)

Leviticus 16:14 Exodus 12:1-13 Isaiah 1:18 Romans 5:9 Romans 11:18 Matthew 7:7 Luke 11:9-13 John 15:4-6 I Corinthians 2:7-8 I Corinthians 5:7 Hebrews 9:13-22 Hebrews 10:19 Hebrews 13:12
Romans 3:21-25 Ephesians 1:7 Ephesians 2:13 Colossians 1:14 I John 1:7-9 I John 5:8 Revelation 1:5 1 Peter 1:18 Revelation 12:11


V. Progressive Grace - General grace given to all, Specific grace applied to some

The Holy Spirit constantly seeks the lost, pursuing and pricking their conscience, through general revelation of nature and the cosmos, providing divine faith with specific revelation through scripture, evangelists, and life's circumstances, reasoning with man's thought process to consider God's redemption for conviction to obtain righteousness, until the Holy Spirit ceases contending with them, giving them over to their depraved minds.Only God knows when a person's conscience is permanently sealed against considering salvation.

Genesis 6:3 Matthew 23:37 Romans 1:19-28 John 1:31 John 2:11 Isaiah 6:8-12 Isaiah 32:3 Isaiah 35:5 Ezekiel 40:4 Matthew 13:15-16 Acts 18:27 Ephesians 2:8 Romans 4:2 Romans 11:18 I Corinthians 1:18-30 I Corinthians 4:7 II Corinthians 1:9-12 Mark 4:3-20 John 3:11 Ephesians 6:24


VI. Permanent Security - Everyone in Christ is eternally secure in salvation

(OSAS - Once Saved Always Saved)

Every regenerated believer is eternally secure, may fall into sin, but recovers as an adopted child of God. Those permanently departing from God never truly experienced the actual redemptive process, but experienced a synthetic or manipulative conversion.

I Peter 1:5 Ephesians 6:18 Ephesians 2:8-9 Ephesians 4:30 Hebrews 12:1 James 1:25 Romans 3:21-24 Romans 8:23-39 John 10:27-30 Philippians 1:6 I Corinthians 3:10-15 II Corinthians 5:17 John 3:14-16 Colossians 3:1-3 I John 1:7-9

 

[judgement]

the LORD JESUS says we can loose our salvation, [revelations 22:19 says. and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, GOD shall take away his part out of the book of LIFE, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.] i could add many more but i thought this would do. may GOD bless you all in your learning of our lord JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Bozrah]

the LORD JESUS says we can loose our salvation, [revelations 22:19 says. and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, GOD shall take away his part out of the book of LIFE, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.] i could add many more but i thought this would do. may GOD bless you all in your learning of our lord JESUS CHRIST.

Is this the general agreement of this board?

 

[Chad]

Is this the general agreement of this board?

How can the 'board' as a whole community have one agreement on something? Each member has their own personal views whether or not they may be biblical is not in my control, nor the mods nor represent the entire community at whole.

On a side note, there is nothing to agree or disagree about if it is stated in the Bible. How can one rightfully disagree or even 'debate' what is in the Word? If the Bible says it, then GOD says so and that's the final Word.

History is clear that believers have interpreted the Word in so many different ways and angles that it ends up in confusion and argumentative debates. Where's the edification in that?

 

[Bozrah]

How can the 'board' as a whole community have one agreement on something? Each member has their own personal views whether or not they may be biblical is not in my control, nor the mods nor represent the entire community at whole.

On a side note, there is nothing to agree or disagree about if it is stated in the Bible. How can one rightfully disagree or even 'debate' what is in the Word? If the Bible says it, then GOD says so and that's the final Word.

History is clear that believers have interpreted the Word in so many different ways and angles that it ends up in confusion and argumentative debates. Where's the edification in that?

I see most boards leaning one way or the other

 

[SpiritLedEd]

the LORD JESUS says we can loose our salvation, [revelations 22:19 says. and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, GOD shall take away his part out of the book of LIFE, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.] i could add many more but i thought this would do. may GOD bless you all in your learning of our lord JESUS CHRIST.

I think that we need to look to Phil 2:12, Mt 7:24-27 and Mt 23:13. Philippians tells us that our salvation is a process and it must be developed as we learn and mature in the faith. The Matthew 7 citation is the parable of the wise/foolish builders and the Mt 23 quote says that the person who perseveres until the end (the wise builder) will be saved.

All these citations show the believer's salvation developing as the believer learns and grows in the faith. You can also look at the Parable of the Sower in Mark 4 (specifically Mk 4:13-20 NIV). Most of this parable is about what happens AFTER people hear the Word and seemingly decide to become followers. Many do not persevere to the end.

SLE

 

[Bozrah]

I think that we need to look to Phil 2:12, Mt 7:24-27 and Mt 23:13. Philippians tells us that our salvation is a process and it must be developed as we learn and mature in the faith. The Matthew 7 citation is the parable of the wise/foolish builders and the Mt 23 quote says that the person who perseveres until the end (the wise builder) will be saved.

All these citations show the believer's salvation developing as the believer learns and grows in the faith. You can also look at the Parable of the Sower in Mark 4 (specifically Mk 4:13-20 NIV). Most of this parable is about what happens AFTER people hear the Word and seemingly decide to become followers. Many do not persevere to the end.

SLE

interesting..........

 

[Br. Bear]

“This do in remembrance of Me.”
1Corinthians 11:24


May I add this little extract from C. Spurgeon?



It seems then, that Christians may forget Christ!

There could be no need for this loving exhortation, if there were not a fearful supposition that our memories might prove treacherous.

Nor is this a bare supposition: it is, alas! too well confirmed in our experience, not as a possibility, but as a lamentable fact.

It appears almost impossible that those who have been redeemed by the blood of the dying Lamb, and loved with an everlasting love by the eternal Son of God, should forget that gracious Saviour; but, if startling to the ear, it is, alas! too apparent to the eye to allow us to deny the crime.

Forget Him Who never forgot us!

Forget Him Who poured His blood forth for our sins!

Forget Him Who loved us even to the death!

Can it be possible?

Yes, it is not only possible, but conscience confesses that it is too sadly a fault with all of us, that we suffer Him to be as a wayfaring man tarrying but for a night.
He whom we should make the abiding tenant of our memories is but a visitor therein.

The cross where one would think that memory would linger, and unmindfulness would be an unknown intruder, is desecrated by the feet of forgetfulness. Does not your conscience say that this is true? Do you not find yourselves forgetful of Jesus?

Some creature steals away your heart, and you are unmindful of Him upon whom your affection ought to be set. Some earthly business engrosses your attention when you should fix your eye steadily upon the cross. It is the incessant turmoil of the world, the constant attraction of earthly things which takes away the soul from Christ. While memory too well preserves a poisonous weed, it suffereth the rose of Sharon to wither.

Let us charge ourselves to bind a heavenly forget-me-not about our hearts for Jesus our Beloved, and, whatever else we let slip, let us hold fast to Him.





Bless you ....><>





Br. Bear

 

[Bozrah]

I believe once we are saved we are sealed and secured

I can't post scripture cuz it says I need 50 posts first (verses are treated as links)

Every regenerated believer is eternally secure, may fall into sin, but recovers as an adopted child of God. Those permanently departing from God never truly experienced the actual redemptive process, but experienced a synthetic or manipulative conversion.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Every regenerated believer is eternally secure, may fall into sin, but recovers as an adopted child of God. Those permanently departing from God never truly experienced the actual redemptive process, but experienced a synthetic or manipulative conversion.

The question, in my opinion, is this - does a believer become regenerated instantly? Or does it take time? The Apostle Paul, soon after his conversion, went to Arabia for an unspecified length of time (see Gal 1:17), then returned to Damascus and began to preach. While he doesn't specify why he went there, it seems logical that this was a regeneration period - a time during which the remnants of his old Pharisaical beliefs were washed away.There is testimony in 1 Corinthians that seems to support the idea of a regeneration period for new believers: "I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are worldly." (1 Cor 3:2-3 NIV).

You speak of the "redemptive process" and people departing from God never having truly experienced it. It appears that we are on the same page because the "redemptive process" and "regeneration" are, in my opinion, one and the same thing.

SLE

 

[StopPolloition]

I find this a bit laughable really of coure we have free will.

Joshua 24:15 choose you this day whome you will serve.

we have choice alright and GOd does not take this away when we come to Him we always have choice.

you know its funny people think that we imperfect beings can not chose to leave God after we have accepted Him. Yet even Satan himself an angel who was made perfect was able to chose to leave God. and many angels with him.

even Adam and Eve who were made perfect chose to leave God by way of disobedience. hmmm

it is ignorance to say that we can not lose salvation after accepting it. we can lose it the same way we got it. free choice.

once saved always saved is a lie. it is conditional on our daily denying of self and carry our cross daily.

Blessings

I always groan whenever I hear the arguments for the perseverance of the saints (osas). To me it seems that far too much inflection is placed upon something that isnt there in scripture; OSAS advocates have their mantra "Grace alone by faith alone" and its the 'alone' part that is so damning. It simply isnt there. So many teachers have spooked people into thinking that everything other than belief is a 'work' that they just do nothing at all. Repeat a few words, live your life, check back with you in the Rapture. No holiness, no sanctification, no effort at all to (dare I say) remain saved. And woe to the person who would dare besmirch this doctrine that has been so richly pontificated about by early 'church' leaders (who, in my opinion, carry more authority for the OSAS than the apostles). You'll soon incur their wrath. How DARE you ADD to the grace of GAWD! Yawn. The danger of OSAS is that it places no onus on the believer. No responsibility whatsoever because no one can snatch them out of the hand of God. That verse in John that they so readily use doesnt mean that they cant ever be lost but that no one other than that person can have an effect once the person has made up their mind to be saved. Not Satan himself will stop a believer from the straight and narrow if he is determined. Not the fatalistic oblivion that too many have found themselves in. Further, to assert that Calvary paid for future sins so they dont matter is reckless at best. The Bible tells us to grieve not the Spirit. If I am saved, for me to remain in unrepented sin not only negates that salvation but has brought the Son of God to open shame. I dont buy the assertion that since Hebrews was written to the Jews that the caution against treading the Son of God underfoot is hypothetical. This is throwing the baby out with the doctrinal bathwater.

 

[Bozrah]

Consider the parable of the sower.

The seed sown on the path, their understanding was taken from them by the evil one. The one in the rocky ground receives it with joy, but his circumstances later on make it die out. The one in the thorns has circumstances already that prevent it from being fruitful. The good soil had nothing hindering the growth.

Does the parable here rely on God's giving of faith? No, it relies on the circumstances of individuals. In some, their paths are leading them to destruction and the evil one steals their ability to understand the truth. In the other two, their circumstances prevent them from salvation.

The choices they make lead them in the direction where they can eventually be receptive to the Gospel message. And when the time is right, and the seed is sown, and the power of God is present, they might choose God. But it's always their choice.

Romans 4:18-22, "Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, 'So shall your offspring be.' Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead-since he was about a hundred years old-and that Sarah's womb was a tomb. Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness."

Notice that Abraham believed in hope. It was because of his hope that he believed. He also was strengthened in his faith because he believed God had the power to do what He had promised. And this is what was credited to Him as righteousness. The reasons for his belief and faith were outlined directly in those Scriptures. Now can Abraham boast?

1 John 3:23, "And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us."

Belief is a command, just as love is. It's a choice we make, just as we make a choice to love others. To dispute the idea that belief is a choice is to dispute the idea that all the things we do are choices, sending us back to robots that are programmed to act in a certain way. We choose to obey or disobey, and belief is no different.

John 6:29, "Jesus answered, 'The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.' "

The work of God we are supposed to do is belief. Belief is not a work, it's not something we can do that we deserve a wage. Rather, here Jesus is expressing the idea that we are commanded to believe, just as we are commanded to do other things for God.

Romans 3:27-38, "Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law."

And this is what Abraham did, what we are commanded to do.

Belief and Faith in God is a gift from God we can accept or reject.

The "_____alone"s are in contrast to works and can only be understood within their context.