Forms of Worship

[Hannah Rachelle]

I've been thinking lately ( which is a beautiful thing in itself because the very fact that we never stop thinking - like sharks never stop moving - shows how God doesn't like His creation going stagnant! ). A person recently said something very interesting to me. He said that obedience is the key to worship.

I know that when a person worships something, it is an outward expression of that person's passion. So when we worship, we're outwardly expressing that passion we have for God. But when we don't open up in our worship when we know we should or when we let our mind run off on things when we know we shouldn't in times set for worship, then really, this is a conscience decision to do what we want rather then what we know we should be doing. And when we say yes to one thing, we're really saying no to another and it's the same for when we say no to one thing, we're really saying yes to another. But when we make that conscience decision to say yes to what we want to do and no to what God created us to do, then is this sinning? Since disobeying God is obviously accounted as a sin in His eyes that will be judged, then will we be judged over every time we take our attention off God during worship? I don't know, maybe this is a "beside the point" question, because if this were true then it would create a lot of fear and worry that we may not have given God our all attention during worship.

I'm a reserved person and not at all as open as a lot of Christians are in their worship, so that's why I've been giving this some thought. I believe that worship towards our Creator isn't always in singing and dancing. I kind of feel that we all exalt God ( or worship Him ) through letting Him work through us in the talents and passions He either gave to us at birth or developed in us as we grow in our relationship with Him and then giving Him the glory for it. but I still feel bad about not opening up more in my worship at church and I can't discern whether it's man that is making me feel this way or if it's God. When we lift our hands in worship because everyone else is doing it, all we're doing is appeasing their expectations in us. I don't like that pressure. This could be how "man" can be making me feel like I need to open up more. But as for God, He clearly explains in the Bible that worship is gratefulness because we are loved and we are free. Perhaps He may be trying to get me to open up more because I am loved and I am free.

What do you think?

 

[spirit1st]

I believe it Very important to obeying our Lord and of course How can we if we do not Hear him?

But worshiping Him is really for Who He is and what he done and what He going to do. Worshiping is Not living a perfect life on earth. Be Great if we could.

I have argued with Him and disobeyed Him at times and still He never forsaken or left me.
But I guess it made me worship with more Love though it all. Our worshiping Him is Not based on obeying Him perfectly . I try too now and do not argue with Him now of course. It called growing in the LORD.

We learn obeying HIM is always the very best way and We learn He always knows best and of course we wants the Best just as He does.

 

[james1523]

I know of certain churches that specifically ask their congregation, or even those in leadership, to worship in a certain way, hands raised, eyes open, eyes closed etc. If you don't, you don't "fit in", so to speak. I have also heard sermons where they say a person should not worship in a certain way, and they criticize the way other churches worship.

These are all the outward forms and are not important, these churches have lost the point of worship.
Man looks at the outward things but God sees the heart.

According to Jesus's discussion with the Samaritan woman in John 4, the essence of worship is entirely a matter of spirit and truth:

John 4:24 "God is Spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the spirit and in truth."

Firstly, God is spirit, that is what He is. Because of this, we must worship Him with our spirits. He doesn't care for dancing or shouting or singing if it is just a physical act.
Secondly, we must worship Him in truth. This means we must worship with sincerity of heart (and not with hypocrisy, that is, pretending to be someone or something we are not).

To go a little deeper of what it means to worship in spirit and truth, the bible says Jesus is the truth (John 14:6).
To worship in truth, can also mean to worship "in Christ".
If you believe in Christ then Christ now lives in you (Col 1:27).
You have the perfect worshipper, Christ, living inside you!
But we may not be "in Him". Many times we are "in ourselves". What are we focussing our hearts on when we worship, is it Christ or is it ourselves or other people?
And do we worship the Father out of the realization that Christ is living inside of us, or is it just us trying to reach and please God far far away in the Heavens by our own effort?
Who is our "worship leader"? Is it the person standing on front of the church with the microphone, or is it the Son of God living inside of us?
Only the Son of God living inside of us knows how to worship His Father perfectly.
In ourselves our worship is not perfect.
So when we worship we can turn our hearts to Christ living inside of us, and allow Him to worship through us.
Then we will forget about ourselves and our environment, and be lost in Him.
And this is how to worship in spirit and truth; in a genuine and sincere way, any time of day or night, and in any place.
And if we sing, shout, are silent, or dance, it will be the outward expression of the inward realization of Christ's presence with us.

You have said that worship is the outward expression of the passion we have for God.
I suggest that if worship is the outward expression of the passion that Christ in us has for the Father, our worship will be much higher and purer, and we will forget about ourselves and others, and the less important outward acts.

I am sometimes a reserved person too. But if in silence I touch the living Christ inside of me, then I can be in tears, even shaking, trembling in His presence. Surrounded by many others in church shouting and screaming for "God to come down", who obviously are trying too hard and don't realize He's already inside of them ha ha ha. That's my point , if we worship in spirit and truth then the outward things will take care of themselves and just because another person has their arms raised, eyes closed, and shouting and praising with their mouth, doesn't mean they are worshipping God in spirit and truth. It depends upon whether or not they have truly touched Christ and are expressing what they are feeling through their actions, or whether they are trying to reach God through their self efforts without Christ.
As we know, Christ is the only way to the Father (Jn 14:6). And that doesn't mean just for salvation or after we die, it means for anything - worship, prayer, whatever. If we want to touch the Father through our worship or our prayer, then we must touch the living Christ inside of us first. It's that simple.

 

[Hannah Rachelle]

Thank you for that James!!!

I had never thought of worship as reaching what is already inside of me. I guess I was one of those trying to reach far far in the heavens. My perspective has now been changed.

May God Bless you Sir :smiley:

Hannah

 

[brakelite]

I think we need to be careful with the idea we worship what is 'inside' us. Remember, the Bible is very clear that while we have the 'Spirit' of Christ, Christ Himself is in the heavenly tabernacle or temple and acts as our High Priest before the throne of the Father. This is where we should direct our worship. Let us not risk confusing Christian worship with some new-age mysticism resembling Buddhism or some such where theadherants reach 'inside'selves for the solutions to lifes dilemnas, aryher than to outside of themselves to their Creator.

I see worship not so much as something we do, although that plays a part, but rather as something we are. Not a state of doing, but a state of being, and it is what we are that motivates what we do.
There are secular people in the world who wouldn't dream of breaking God's commandments. While they might not keep them all, there are certainly some who would find utterly repugnant that they should cheat on their wife or husband, nor even consider looking upon any other to lust after them.
There are others who are meticulous in honesty, they would never lie , cheat on their taxes, nor steal form anyone.
There are others who are so content with their lives that covetousness may as well be a foreign language.
And there are still others who may do all of the above and also dote on their parents and love and care for them right up to the grave.
Yet none of this could be construed as worship. Obedience yes, but our righteousness is as filthy rags.

There are church-going people who sing hymns. Yet they then go home and beat their wives and watch pornography on television.
There are still others who 'religiously' attend church every week but live the rest of the week pursuing money, fame, and reputation at the expense of others. There are even some who attend church every week because it benefits them to have the contacts for sales and business. None of this could be considered in any sense worship.
Worship is a surrendered life. Worship is a recognition that God is alone worthy to rule and reign in the life. Worship is a state of being where one is completely submitted to the Holy Spirit. Where the Holy Spirit fills the person to the extent that one's very nature is changed , sometimes radically. Worship is a state of being where one's will becomes one with the will of God. A state of being where one hates the things God hates, and loves the things God loves. A state of being where one is conformed into the image of Jesus Christ, identical in character, identical in motives, identical in hope and faith and love. Then, and only then, everything we do,
even our secular labour, is infused with the love of God, both for Him and others. Everything we do is then an expression of the overflowing love of God and can be used of Him as a vehicle for the sharing of the gospel and for providing for the needs of others.
The concordance in both the Greek and Hebrew reveals the word worship means to prostrate oneself, to crouch down even face down upon the earth before God. That is the outward physical expression of the submission and surrender that is required .... when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:23.

So why do we worship God and not something, or someone else? Because of who He is. The Creator of heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything that is in them is worthy. He who created all things, became a man and died on behalfof mankind is Lord of Lords and deserves the fidelity and love of all His creation. Greater love hath no man than he who lays down his life for a friend. There is a greater love however, and that is the love that motivated Jesus to lay down His life even for His enemies. Laying down our lives for our Creator is the very least we can do.
Romans 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[spirit1st]

The Problem is ? People keep trying too judge by works. Just seems to be no end to it. In other wards they are saying? God going to be against you if you do not live perfect lives ? That a lie. He never leaves or forsakes us. It has nothing to do with you living perfect lives.
We should no doubt try to please Him always and to obey all He says. But I know no one can , no matter how hard we try. That why Paul said ?


Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?


Because He Knew ? No matter how are He tried ? He still was going to sin or fail at times. And there is no Paul here ? He was a great man of GOD and gave His life. He Did not seek the good of life . He worked to support His work in the Lord the best He could. Few of us ever give it all 100% .

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Flesh is never perfect and You can never think your Better than others , even if you do see them fail or not live as you judge perfect?
It only hurting you , it not going to hurt them much , except for there feelings .

Mat_25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat_25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Luk_16:10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.

This scripture reveals How God telling us to judge things in the churches. Those who are looked down on the most. Not those who are counted so high or important.
1Co_6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.


This is like too me? The poor old man or woman who have little or nothing to give. Yet God counting them HIGH. They give what they can ? Maybe prayer or food or whatever to help they can ? Maybe just words to them or comfort to others?

 

[Boanerges]

When I was a young believer I was to shy to even tap my toe in church. Now I close my eyes and I am alone with my Love no matter how many people are there; this allows me freedom of expression towards the One I love most. But, He was pleased with my heart either way.

Just a few random thoughts if I may:
Worship can be singing, dancing, playing an instrument, or almost any deed done in love towards the Master. Let our lives be a song of worship to the King.
Let us not worry about how others are choosing to give their worship to the Lord, but instead focus on giving Him our whole hearts.
Worship then, is like pouring two wines into the same glass, they mingle (His love and ours) and become one. This is intimate and not for others to judge.

 

[brakelite]

Spirit 1st. udging is right and proper. It is condemning that we are not to do.
1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2Ti 3:1 ¶ This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Spirit 1st. There are many other examples of where Paul told His readers to judge others by their behaviour and shun them if they were opposed to Biblical truth, or there bahaviour was immoral or sinful. Even to the point where he recommends such are turfed out of church if they fail to repent. You think Peter was judgemental in his treatment of Ananias and Saphira?

I would like to know why we can't live perfect lives in the flesh? Why we cannot completely overcome sin in our lives? Is God not capable of accomplishing such a thing in us? Is He not able to do excedingly abundantly above all we ask or think? Did not Jesus promise to fill those who hunger and thirst for righteousness?

I am not claiming perfection for myself. But I will never stop believing that its possible for God to accomplish that in me. "I can do all things (including overcoming sin) in Christ Who strengthens me.".

 

[spirit1st]

Amen . I too close my eyes and worship Him as i feel at the time. I do not care who watching or anything else. I sit as far back as I can get against the wall so I will not bother anyone. My worship time there is only between me and mu Lord Jesus

 

[Boanerges]

Amen . I too close my eyes and worship Him as i feel at the time. I do not care who watching or anything else. I sit as far back as I can get against the wall so I will not bother anyone. My worship time there is only between me and mu Lord Jesus

Then you can touch heaven's own heart my friend.

 

[DHC]

Colossians 1
21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you
before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach,
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast.

I stand before Jesus Christ 100% Holy and blameless.

More pure than the driven snow, completely faultless!

This is because the bottom line is what Christ has done for us that is important!

It is not what we can do in the flesh that matters. We have no confidence in our
own flesh. We boast in Christ and not in our own behavior or character.

Rejoice and worship Jesus Christ because He alone is worthy and stop looking
at yourself. Your own righteousness is 'filthy rags', a dreadful distraction.

It is this faith in Jesus Christ that secures the reconciliation.

 

[james1523]

I think we need to be careful with the idea we worship what is 'inside' us. Remember, the Bible is very clear that while we have the 'Spirit' of Christ, Christ Himself is in the heavenly tabernacle or temple and acts as our High Priest before the throne of the Father. This is where we should direct our worship. Let us not risk confusing Christian worship with some new-age mysticism resembling Buddhism or some such where theadherants reach 'inside'selves for the solutions to lifes dilemnas, aryher than to outside of themselves to their Creator.

I see worship not so much as something we do, although that plays a part, but rather as something we are. Not a state of doing, but a state of being, and it is what we are that motivates what we do.
There are secular people in the world who wouldn't dream of breaking God's commandments. While they might not keep them all, there are certainly some who would find utterly repugnant that they should cheat on their wife or husband, nor even consider looking upon any other to lust after them.
There are others who are meticulous in honesty, they would never lie , cheat on their taxes, nor steal form anyone.
There are others who are so content with their lives that covetousness may as well be a foreign language.
And there are still others who may do all of the above and also dote on their parents and love and care for them right up to the grave.
Yet none of this could be construed as worship. Obedience yes, but our righteousness is as filthy rags.

There are church-going people who sing hymns. Yet they then go home and beat their wives and watch pornography on television.
There are still others who 'religiously' attend church every week but live the rest of the week pursuing money, fame, and reputation at the expense of others. There are even some who attend church every week because it benefits them to have the contacts for sales and business. None of this could be considered in any sense worship.
Worship is a surrendered life. Worship is a recognition that God is alone worthy to rule and reign in the life. Worship is a state of being where one is completely submitted to the Holy Spirit. Where the Holy Spirit fills the person to the extent that one's very nature is changed , sometimes radically. Worship is a state of being where one's will becomes one with the will of God. A state of being where one hates the things God hates, and loves the things God loves. A state of being where one is conformed into the image of Jesus Christ, identical in character, identical in motives, identical in hope and faith and love. Then, and only then, everything we do,
even our secular labour, is infused with the love of God, both for Him and others. Everything we do is then an expression of the overflowing love of God and can be used of Him as a vehicle for the sharing of the gospel and for providing for the needs of others.
The concordance in both the Greek and Hebrew reveals the word worship means to prostrate oneself, to crouch down even face down upon the earth before God. That is the outward physical expression of the submission and surrender that is required .... when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:23.

So why do we worship God and not something, or someone else? Because of who He is. The Creator of heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything that is in them is worthy. He who created all things, became a man and died on behalfof mankind is Lord of Lords and deserves the fidelity and love of all His creation. Greater love hath no man than he who lays down his life for a friend. There is a greater love however, and that is the love that motivated Jesus to lay down His life even for His enemies. Laying down our lives for our Creator is the very least we can do.
Romans 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Yes it's important to be clear that we do not seek "God in us", or seek anyone other than Christ.
My point was that our worship is not only an external matter of us seeking God in Heaven from our own efforts.
Rather it is to worship God in Heaven, through, in, by and from the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.
There's a big difference between "God is in you", versus "God is you". New age worship the outside creator also, God in the trees, the earth, etc.
We should only worship from Christ inside of us, not anything or anyone else.
There are dangers to only worship God outside of us too, because it can open ourselves up to a familiar spirit posing as God.
There are evil spirits that like to pretend to be Jesus or the Holy Spirit, but they cannot dwell inside of our spirit like the real Holy Spirit can.
One such example is the 'kundalini spirit', which has infiltrated the pentecostal/charismatic movement, replicating the feelings and experiences of the Holy Spirit.
But this spirit is imparted externally, by others touching your forehead.
Some receive visitations from deceiving angels - again, these are spirit beings outside of us.
But as Christians we know the Spirit dwells inside of us permanently and at salvation, and we do not need to receive the Spirit again by seeking Him outside of us.
The Spirit was poured out at Pentecost, upon Jew and then coming to the Gentile, and we do not need to seek further outpourings.
Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is God. Therefore to reach God in Heaven we can turn to Him inside of us first.
God is omni-present, yet, the bible says to worship God in Spirit , not just "worship God in Heaven". Where is the Spirit now? He is living inside of every believer. We don't really touch heaven unless we first touch the Holy Spirit inside of us. Then our worship becomes more real, God feels closer, and worship is somewhat easier.
All religions worship the creator outside of them, and some even resort to asceticism and self-harm, but Christians have God living inside of them, and so He is closer to us than we think.
If we merely seek God in the heavens, and do not experience God inside of us, then we are no different to the Jew or Muslim, who also seek God in the heavens. And if we only seek God inside of us, then we may fall into mysticism.

 

[spirit1st]

Listen we have HIS Power with us. We Do not worship His power . we worship my LORD JESUS . We do all thing as unto Jesus.
The Holy Ghost ,GOD power does not want is worshiping Him. He turning us toward JESUS always.

The Holy Ghost is GOD power and the Greatest Gift HE could give His children. I LOVE the Holy Ghost and count on Him leading, teaching and guiding and comforting me. But I give all the Glory and Honor to My LORD JESUS

Luk_11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Joh_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

1Th_4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.


Joh_16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

We worship and give the glory to the sender, we only have our lives though JESUS CHRIST.

Col_3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

 

[Boanerges]

I have heard a great guitarist; I have seen and heard a guitarist worship with his instrument; this can be done with music or with our whole lives. There are many "good" people in the world this is true but , we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that makes all the difference. To worship the One who dwells in us is good and right; if you have Him you will no the difference and there can be no mistaking Him for any of our own attributes or workings.