For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

[BCsenior]

The problem with understanding the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms is the church today
(and what it has been taught) is so different than what the NT church believed in.
Satan has been successful in deceiving the church about several things, including
“the baptism with the Holy Spirit” and the 9 spiritual power gifts (1 Corinthians 12).
So, please read the following with an open mind and heart.

Paul said the Holy Spirit is the One who baptizes the new believer:
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body [the church]
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13)
The new believer (a BAC) receives the Holy Spirit INSIDE (John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11,
1 Corinthians 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16).

First … Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to His 11 disciples:
“Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I am sending you.”
Then He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” (John 20:21-22)
And the Holy Spirit baptized them as new believers (see 1 Cor 12:13 above).
Please note … All BACs are given peace by “the Prince of peace” (Isaiah 9:6).
“For Christ Himself has brought peace to us.” (Ephesians 2:14)
“God’s peace exceeds anything we can understand” (Philippians 4:7)

John the Baptist said Jesus is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit
in the following verses: Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33.

Second … Jesus promised them that they would receive the gift of the
baptism of the Holy Spirit, which brings a spiritual anointing and power:
● “Behold, I send the promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of
Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.” (Luke 24:49)
● “Do not leave Jerusalem until the Father sends you the gift He promised,
as I told you before [in Luke 24:49]. John baptized with water,
but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 1:4)
● “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you.
And you will be My witnesses, telling people about Me everywhere …” (Acts 1:8)
The baptism with the Holy Spirit was the gift which had been promised.

Third … Jesus’ 11 disciples witnessed to many others who became BACs:
“During this time, when about 120 believers were together in one place,
Peter stood up and addressed them, “Brothers …” (Acts 1:15, NLT)
These 120 were all new believers (BACs actually) …
and they had received the Holy Spirit INSIDE (see 1 Corinthians 12:13 above).

“While Jesus’ disciples were waiting for the gift of the Holy Spirit, they all joined together
constantly in prayer. It is mainly through prayer that we obtain the power of the Holy Spirit
(Luke 11:13) … In addition to Jesus’ main disciples, there were in Jerusalem at that time
about 120 other believers. Perhaps among them were the 72 believers whom Jesus sent
out ahead of Him to announce the coming of the kingdom of God (Luke 10:1-11) ... Many
Christians say that some time after having put faith in Christ and having received the Holy
Spirit the first time, they then have experienced a new filling of the Spirit. These Christians
call this new experience of the Spirit a “second blessing”, or “the baptism with the Spirit”.
They are filled with the Spirit in a new and deeper way, and they receive a new power and zeal”
(The Applied New Testament Commentary, 1996, Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary)

Fourth … a few days later, the now 12 disciples (and others) experienced the day of Pentecost:
“On the day of Pentecost all the [120] believers were meeting together in one place.
Suddenly, there was a sound from heaven like the roaring of a mighty windstorm,
and it filled the house where they were sitting. Then what looked like flames or
tongues of fire appeared and settled [up] on each of them. And everyone present
was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking with other languages [tongues],
as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability.” (Acts 2:1-4, NLT)
On the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit came UPON the 120 believers. Peter tried to explain …
“And the Father, as He had promised, gave Him [Jesus] the Holy Spirit to pour out upon us,
just as you see and hear today … Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God,
and be [water] baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.
Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 2:33-38)

Other obvious examples of the baptism with the Holy Spirit (where the Spirit comes UPON) are:
Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-16, Acts 19:5-6.

1 ● Jesus' 11 disciples received the Holy Spirit (making them BACs) in John 20:21-22.
This first Spirit baptism is done by the Holy Spirit (see 1 Corinthians 12:13 above).
2 ● Jesus promised His 11 disciples that they would receive the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit
(where the Spirit comes UPON), which brings spiritual power (see Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4, Acts 1:8).
3 ● Prior to the day of Pentecost, the 120 were called believers (see Acts 1:15, NLT).
On the day of Pentecost, before anything happened, the 120 were called believers (see Acts 2:1, NLT).
4 ● Finally, the 120 believers received the baptism with the Holy Spirit …
with the evidence of speaking in tongues (see Acts 2:2-4).
This second Spirit baptism is done by Jesus Christ (see Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33).

 

[regibassman57]

@BCsenior,

Paul said the Holy Spirit is the One who baptizes the new believer:
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body [the church]
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13)
The new believer (a BAC) receives the Holy Spirit INSIDE (John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11,
1 Corinthians 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16).

First … Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to His 11 disciples:
“Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I am sending you.”
Then He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” (John 20:21-22)
And the Holy Spirit baptized them as new believers (see 1 Cor 12:13 above).
Please note … All BACs are given peace by “the Prince of peace” (Isaiah 9:6).
“For Christ Himself has brought peace to us.” (Ephesians 2:14)
“God’s peace exceeds anything we can understand” (Philippians 4:7)

John the Baptist said Jesus is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit
in the following verses: Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33.

Second … Jesus promised them that they would receive the gift of the
baptism of the Holy Spirit, which brings a spiritual anointing and power:
● “Behold, I send the promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of
Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.” (Luke 24:49)
● “Do not leave Jerusalem until the Father sends you the gift He promised,
as I told you before [in Luke 24:49]. John baptized with water,
but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 1:4)
● “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you.
And you will be My witnesses, telling people about Me everywhere …” (Acts 1:8)
The baptism with the Holy Spirit was the gift which had been promised.

I do not see scriptures teach that John 20:22 was a "baptism" of the Holy Ghost, but an anointing to remit or retain sins until the day of Pentecost where all sins were removed. This was a type of power the disciples received, a likeness when Jesus gave them power over devils (Luke 10:19, 20). The promise was not fulfilled until the book of Acts 2. No disciples received the Promise of the Holy Ghost until Acts 2:1-4 which fulfilled the promise of the scriptures below.

Luke 24:49
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Acts 1:4
And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

 

[Bendito]

@BCsenior,


I do not see scriptures teach that John 20:22 was a "baptism" of the Holy Ghost, but an anointing to remit or retain sins until the day of Pentecost where all sins were removed. This was a type of power the disciples received, a likeness when Jesus gave them power over devils (Luke 10:19, 20). The promise was not fulfilled until the book of Acts 2. No disciples received the Promise of the Holy Ghost until Acts 2:1-4 which fulfilled the promise of the scriptures below.

Luke 24:49
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Acts 1:4
And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Baptism also means 'sent', as in anointed...An anointed one is one who is sent.
Where were sin removed? Only when they are confessed and forgiven. 1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[regibassman57]

@Bendito,
I'm not sure about the term "baptism" meaning "sent;" where can I find that understanding? But the comparison made was with the baptism of John the Baptist. So this says to me it's not necessarily talking about "sent" but an immersion in something. I of course believe once a person is baptized with the Spirit, their sins are all removed; past, present and future - starting with confession as 1John 1:9 states.

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito,
I'm not sure about the term "baptism" meaning "sent;" where can I find that understanding? But the comparison made was with the baptism of John the Baptist. So this says to me it's not necessarily talking about "sent" but an immersion in something. I of course believe once a person is baptized with the Spirit, their sins are all removed; past, present and future - starting with confession as 1John 1:9 states.

You're right...It is immersion... immersion, submersion

of calamities and afflictions with which one is quite overwhelmed

of John's baptism, that purification rite by which men on confessing their sins were bound to spiritual reformation, obtained the pardon of their past sins and became qualified for the benefits of the Messiah's kingdom soon to be set up. This was valid Christian baptism, as this was the only baptism the apostles received and it is not recorded anywhere that they were ever rebaptised after Pentecost.
In some baptism ceremonies, oil is also used...That is an anointing witch represents the Holy Spirit.
Then you look into the dictionary and you find that 'baptism' also means 'to christen' and to 'dedicate' both of which mean to point one to a destination or goal...Send.
of Christian baptism; a rite of immersion in water as commanded by Christ, by which one after confessing his sins and professing his faith in Christ, having been born again by the Holy Spirit unto a new life, identifies publicly with the fellowship of Christ and the church.

 

[regibassman57]

@Bendito,

You're right...It is immersion... immersion, submersion of calamities and afflictions with which one is quite overwhelmed
of John's baptism, that purification rite by which men on confessing their sins were bound to spiritual reformation, obtained the pardon of their past sins and became qualified for the benefits of the Messiah's kingdom soon to be set up. This was valid Christian baptism, as this was the only baptism the apostles received and it is not recorded anywhere that they were ever rebaptised after Pentecost.
In some baptism ceremonies, oil is also used...That is an anointing witch represents the Holy Spirit.
Then you look into the dictionary and you find that 'baptism' also means 'to christen' and to 'dedicate' both of which mean to point one to a destination or goal...Send.
of Christian baptism; a rite of immersion in water as commanded by Christ, by which one after confessing his sins and professing his faith in Christ, having been born again by the Holy Spirit unto a new life, identifies publicly with the fellowship of Christ and the church.

That is true about John's baptism and I will research the baptism of "sent;" though I can see your point. But I'm sure scripture only teaches "one" baptism of life - when a person's sins are purged once for all time.

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito,


That is true about John's baptism and I will research the baptism of "sent;" though I can see your point. But I'm sure scripture only teaches "one" baptism of life - when a person's sins are purged once for all time.

LOL It's not two baptisms my friend...Its all the same one.

 

[regibassman57]

@Bendito,
Some ministers teach 3 baptisms. So 2 is another doctrine that's muddies up the waters in confusion.

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito,
Some ministers teach 3 baptisms. So 2 is another doctrine that's muddies up the waters in confusion.

I only know of water baptism, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[regibassman57]

@Bendito,
Lookup Andrew Wommack, He's just one that believes in more than one baptism.
He's a very popular T.V. Evangelist.

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito,
Lookup Andrew Wommack, He's just one that believes in more than one baptism.
He's a very popular T.V. Evangelist.

Yes I know Andrew Wommack

 

[B-A-C]

Some churches teach three baptisms". Almost all Pentecostal churches believe the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit is different from the inital infilling of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19:1; It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Acts 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Acts 19:7; There were in all about twelve men.

Paul runs into some disciples at Ephesus. They were already disciples before he met them.
He asks them if they were baptized. They say they were baptized into "John's baptism" (water/repentance). They were already baptized in water before Paul met them.
But even though they had been baptized n water, they didn't know about the Holy Spirit.
Verse 5 above says "they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus". What does this mean? Some say they were baptized in water again.
Others say this is a separate baptism, not of water.
Finally in verse 6, they receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Keep in mind they had already been believers, disciples, who had been baptized in water an undetermined
amount of ime before this (possibly years, if it was John the Baptist who baptized them personally).

 

[B-A-C]

In Acts 10, we see a Gentile (non-Jew) soldier named Cornelius.

Acts 10:1; Now there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort,
Acts 10:2; a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually.
Acts 10:3; About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, "Cornelius!"
Acts 10:4; And fixing his gaze on him and being much alarmed, he said, "What is it, Lord?" And he said to him, "Your prayers and alms have ascended as a memorial before God.

We see here Cornelius was a devout man, who prayed "continually". ...and yet....

Acts 10:44; While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts 10:45; All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts 10:46; For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts 10:47; "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts 10:48; And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

Once again we see here, someone who is already a believer. But yet he doesn't get baptized with the Holy Spirit until he meets Peter.
This is the first account of a Gentile being baptized with the Holy Spirit. After this, Peter says "no one can refuse them to be baptized in water".
He also "orders" (commands?) them to be baptized "in the name of Jesus" (is that water baptism or something else)?

Just like the disciples at Ephesus in the previous post, they didn't automatically receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit just by virtue of being a believer.

 

[B-A-C]

In Acts 8, we see a former magician (sorcerer) named Simon. He is now a believer. There are also some Samaritans here who are believers.

Acts 8:9; Now there was a man named Simon, who formerly was practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;
Acts 8:10; and they all, from smallest to greatest, were giving attention to him, saying, "This man is what is called the Great Power of God."
Acts 8:11; And they were giving him attention because he had for a long time astonished them with his magic arts.
Acts 8:12; But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.
Acts 8:13; Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.
Acts 8:14; Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,
Acts 8:15; who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:16; For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 8:17; Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

Now Simon sees that the apostles come here, because the Samaritans had "received" the Word of God".
They are believers, but again, just like the previous two posts, they hadn't received the baptism of the Holy Spirit yet. Verse 15 says the apostle are praying for them "that they might receive the Holy Spirit". Verse 17 says they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

In fact Simon wants to be able to do this.

Acts 8:18; Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,
Acts 8:19; saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
Acts 8:20; But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!

Unlike some churches who seem to think the more money you give them makes you more Holy.... or more forgiven.

The thing I notice about all three passages here, the disciples at Ephesus, Cornelius and his family, and the Samaritans who had received the word here.
Even though all of them had been believers for a period of time... none of them received the baptism of the Holy Spirit just because they were believers.
We see this two other places as well. If I have time, we'll cover those today.

 

[B-A-C]

Here is the fourth passage. It's about the upper room and the first day of Pentecost (there were at least two days of Pentecost mentioned in the Bible)

Acts 1:12; Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey away.
Acts 1:13; When they had entered the city, they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James.
Acts 1:14; These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.
Acts 1:15; At this time Peter stood up in the midst of the brethren (a gathering of about one hundred and twenty persons was there together), and said,

Verse 15 says there are about 120 people in this room. Some of the apostles are named here, Mary the mother of Jesus, and Jesus's brothers are here.
These people were all believers, the apostles had been following Jesus for three years. Many (if not all) of them had been baptized by John the baptist.
.. but yet... none of them had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:1; When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
Acts 2:2; And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3; And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
Acts 2:4; And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

This is at least 40 days after Jesus was crucified, He had already ascended back to heaven. This is the first instance of anyone being "baptized" in the Holy Spirit,
but again.. just like all of the previous passages... they had been believer for some period of time (weeks? months? years?) before receiving the baptism of
the Holy Ghost.

.. there is more place this happens... also there were at least two other "day of Pentecost" ( Acts 20:16; and 1 Cor 16:8; ) events.

 

[Dave M]

I have herd a couple of Pentecostal preachers say something along the lines of first we get them saved then we get the filled with the holly spirit. I even herd Derik Prince a great teacher of the word and a Pentecostal, say that speaking in tongues was the seal of the holly spirit. I think speaking of tongues is a beautiful gift from God and do not doubt it for one second but I dont think its a seal

But I think a changed life is a seal of the Holly spirit, once you hate sin, once you start living for God instead of your flesh, when you are convicted for doing wrong that is by the Holly Ghost I would have to think. I always thought tongues was a gift not a seal.

good topic of conversation

 

[B-A-C]

I think this is a very important distinction to make. There are many people who claim to led by the Spirit, or walking in the Spirit, or even filled by the Spirit
who are doing very unspiritual things. Their fruit is the fruit of the flesh. Their deeds are wicked, and their teachings are false.
We have a pastor of a large church right here in this town who is supporting gay/lesbian lifestyles, he is even supporting marriage to pets.
He is doing this because... he says "I am being led by the Holy Spirit" to do so. This is not the Holy Spirit I know.

 

[Dave M]

I think this is a very important distinction to make. There are many people who claim to led by the Spirit, or walking in the Spirit, or even filled by the Spirit
who are doing very unspiritual things. There fruit is the fruit of the flesh. Their deeds are wicked, and their teachings are false.
We have a pastor of a large church right here in this town who is supporting gay/lesbian lifestyles, he is even supporting marriage to pets.
He is doing this because... he says "I am being led by the Holy Spirit" to do so. This is not the Holy Spirit I know.

Many deceiving spirits out there, I recently saw a tv show where part of the congregation was running laps around the alter, and one guy was on all fours running around like a dog, another was slivering around like a snake, and the preacher of one of these shows was acting like a drunk fool on the pulpit. They were all claiming to be led by the Holly ghost

I Have no doubt they were filled with a spirit all right, I doubt that it could of been the Holly spirit when the bible says Godly people are supposed to be of sober mind, and the bible says God is a orderly God.

 

[B-A-C]

I have herd a couple of Pentecostal preachers say something along the lines of first we get them saved then we get the filled with the holly spirit. I even herd Derik Prince a great teacher of the word and a Pentecostal, say that speaking in tongues was the seal of the holly spirit. I think speaking of tongues is a beautiful gift from God and do not doubt it for one second but I dont think its a seal

But I think a changed life is a seal of the Holy spirit, once you hate sin, once you start living for God instead of your flesh, when you are convicted for doing wrong that is by the Holly Ghost I would have to think. I always thought tongues was a gift not a seal.

Ahhh... a subject of great debate even in Pentecostal churches. Is speaking in tongues required?
First all let me say something. Even the churches that do believe this.. don't believe it is required for you to be baptized with the Holy Spirit to be saved.
Their defense for this is the four passages I posted above, in every case these were believers who hadn't received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Does that mean they weren't saved? What if they would have died during the time before they received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Most Pentecostal churches would say they were saved. (even Derek Prince)

Still... to their point... in every single instance of someone being baptized in the Holy Spirit in the Bible... people spoke in tongues.
The argument against this would be....

1 Cor 12:29; All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?
1 Cor 12:30; All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?

 

[Dave M]

the thing I most commonly here about being baptized in the spirit is the super natural experience they receive. I dont doubt it for a second as God our God is a super Natural God. I wonder if anyone on here has had the glorious experience?