FOR ALL WHO THINK THERE IS ONLY ONE CHURCH

[DougE]

At what point did Jesus Christ become the Head of the Church?

Before the body of Christ Jesus was said to be the head of the corner ******** [Mark 12:10 KJV] "And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:"

Only Paul calls Christ the head of his body the church

 

[DougE]

You should be asking yourself. Were they believers in Jesus Christ in the Church located in Jerusalem?
You should also have your answer already and know they were. If believers in Christ Jesus who is the head of the Church, then they are part of the Body of Christ which is who comprises the church.

Those before Paul were in the church in Jerusalem and were in Christ before Paul and the body of Christ was formed. They couldnt be in the body because it wasnt formed yet
[Romans 16:7 KJV] "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me."

 

[Christ4Ever]

Before the body of Christ Jesus was said to be the head of the corner ******** [Mark 12:10 KJV] "And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:"

Only Paul calls Christ the head of his body the church

Again, my question, because all you provided was a point forward that He would be, not when be came so. So, again my question is: At what point did Jesus become the Head of the Church?

Oh, please stop grasping at straws with that last comment and the following one you posted. The Body of Christ could not exist before Jesus became the Head of the Church. Just answer the question before you wind up diminishing the very thing you want to believe is true and right concerning Scripture.

You should be asking yourself. Were they believers in Jesus Christ in the Church located in Jerusalem?
You should also have your answer already and know they were. If believers in Christ Jesus who is the head of the Church, then they are part of the Body of Christ which is who comprises the church.

Those before Paul were in the church in Jerusalem and were in Christ before Paul and the body of Christ was formed. They couldnt be in the body because it wasnt formed yet
[Romans 16:7 KJV] "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me."

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/

 

[DougE]

At what point did Jesus become the Head of the Church?

We know Christ is head of the body by reading it in Paul's epistles which was when Christ revealed he was

 

[RRLeath]

There is one church today the body of Christ
There was the church in Jerusalem before that
They overlapped in Acts

What Scriptures show there was a "church" in Jerusalem before the actual body of Christ "Church" kicked off at Pentecost? What scriptures show they overlapped?

 

[Christ4Ever]

At what point did Jesus become the Head of the Church?

We know Christ is head of the body by reading it in Paul's epistles which was when Christ revealed he was

So, you don't know. Which is fine, because it's not something many think about. We've probably all have seen the verses but have never really considered them in this light. They accept it as fact, that He is the Head of the Church, which is true, but don't give the time that it happened much consideration because it must precede all else in order to establish the church. I'm sure as you start to read this, that you're getting an inkling of what I'm pointing to, and in the Spirit an eye-opening understanding, of the when! I don't usually think upon this, but it must have been Glorious indeed!

For it's really not as difficult nor as mysterious as one would think. For when you consider Jesus as the focal point, and not all the externals of what is involved in a church it can be readily clear. It's not about us/believers, Apostles, but all about Jesus, our Lord and Savior. The Head of the Church.

[Col 1:18 KJV] 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

[Eph 1:20-23 KJV] 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places], 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

When our Lord Ascended into Heaven and sat at the right hand of the Father! He was returning to heaven, having completed His earthly ministry.

[Psa 110:1 KJV] 1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

[Mar 16:19 KJV] 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

[Jhn 6:62 KJV] 62 [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

[Jhn 20:17 KJV] 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

[Luk 24:51 KJV] 51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

[Act 1:9 KJV] 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Repeated: [Col 1:18 KJV] 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

Repeated: [Eph 1:20-23 KJV] 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places], 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

\o/

There is no division in Christ Jesus brother. Only man creates a division that in truth there cannot be in Jesus! Rejoice that it is so! \o/
That is why regardless of what anyone says, when you meet someone, be it brother or sister in Christ, even if the language is a barrier to complete understanding, there is joy in the meeting! You are bonded by Him, by His Blood! Isn't that wonderful?!!!

Sorry got carried away there. lol

I hope you see it, and how wonderful it really is! I hope you receive this with the love in which it’s intended.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/

 

[DougE]

What Scriptures show there was a "church" in Jerusalem before the actual body of Christ "Church" kicked off at Pentecost? What scriptures show they overlapped?

Good question
You realize there isnt going to be a verse that says "there was a church before the body of Christ'
I cant prove anything, its up to you to make of what you will
Its also not a matter of salvation unless you reject Paul's gospel

[Acts 11:22 KJV] "Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch." ******** scripture says there was a church in Jerusalem

[Acts 8:1 KJV] "And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles." ******* Paul persecuted the church before he was converted

[Acts 15:4 KJV] "And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and [of] the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them." ********* Paul was received by the Jerusalem church

[Acts 1:8 KJV] "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." ********** There was no church formed at Pentecost. At Pentecost the existing church at Jerusalem received the Holy Ghost. Pentecost was a fulfillment of Joel unto Israel ********* [Acts 2:16 KJV] "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"

 

[DougE]

So, you don't know. Which is fine, because it's not something many think about. We've probably all have seen the verses but have never really considered them in this light. They accept it as fact, that He is the Head of the Church, which is true, but don't give the time that it happened much consideration because it must precede all else in order to establish the church. I'm sure as you start to read this, that you're getting an inkling of what I'm pointing to, and in the Spirit an eye-opening understanding, of the when! I don't usually think upon this, but it must have been Glorious indeed!

For it's really not as difficult nor as mysterious as one would think. For when you consider Jesus as the focal point, and not all the externals of what is involved in a church it can be readily clear. It's not about us/believers, Apostles, but all about Jesus, our Lord and Savior. The Head of the Church.

[Col 1:18 KJV] 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

[Eph 1:20-23 KJV] 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places], 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

When our Lord Ascended into Heaven and sat at the right hand of the Father! He was returning to heaven, having completed His earthly ministry.

[Psa 110:1 KJV] 1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

[Mar 16:19 KJV] 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

[Jhn 6:62 KJV] 62 [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

[Jhn 20:17 KJV] 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

[Luk 24:51 KJV] 51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

[Act 1:9 KJV] 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Repeated: [Col 1:18 KJV] 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

Repeated: [Eph 1:20-23 KJV] 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places], 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

\o/

There is no division in Christ Jesus brother. Only man creates a division that in truth there cannot be in Jesus! Rejoice that it is so! \o/
That is why regardless of what anyone says, when you meet someone, be it brother or sister in Christ, even if the language is a barrier to complete understanding, there is joy in the meeting! You are bonded by Him, by His Blood! Isn't that wonderful?!!!

Sorry got carried away there. lol

I hope you see it, and how wonderful it really is! I hope you receive this with the love in which it’s intended.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/

Hey Nick

[Ephesians 1:3 KJV] "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:"
[Ephesians 1:4 KJV] "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

Christ chose us to be reconciled in Christ before the world was created and I would go so far as to say he determined to be the head of the church, the body, as well. So yes, when was Christ made our head? Before the world was even made

Yes there is a special bond with other believers
[Galatians 6:10 KJV] "As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all [men], especially unto them who are of the household of faith."
[John 13:34 KJV] "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another."
[Ephesians 4:2 KJV] "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;"

 

[RRLeath]

Good question
You realize there isnt going to be a verse that says "there was a church before the body of Christ'
I cant prove anything, its up to you to make of what you will
Its also not a matter of salvation unless you reject Paul's gospel

[Acts 11:22 KJV] "Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch." ******** scripture says there was a church in Jerusalem

[Acts 8:1 KJV] "And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles." ******* Paul persecuted the church before he was converted

[Acts 15:4 KJV] "And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and [of] the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them." ********* Paul was received by the Jerusalem church

[Acts 1:8 KJV] "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." ********** There was no church formed at Pentecost. At Pentecost the existing church at Jerusalem received the Holy Ghost. Pentecost was a fulfillment of Joel unto Israel ********* [Acts 2:16 KJV] "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"

What are you teaching? Scripture backs up Scripture all the way back to Genesis in types, foreshadowings and emblems.
Before the "Church" and current Church Age, the law abiding Jews went to the synagogue or temple....laws and sacrifices. Christ as the final sacrifice fulfilled the law and he was the last sacrifice. There was no other "Church" before the death of Christ.

 

[DougE]

So, you don't know. Which is fine, because it's not something many think about. We've probably all have seen the verses but have never really considered them in this light. They accept it as fact, that He is the Head of the Church, which is true, but don't give the time that it happened much consideration because it must precede all else in order to establish the church. I'm sure as you start to read this, that you're getting an inkling of what I'm pointing to, and in the Spirit an eye-opening understanding, of the when! I don't usually think upon this, but it must have been Glorious indeed!

For it's really not as difficult nor as mysterious as one would think. For when you consider Jesus as the focal point, and not all the externals of what is involved in a church it can be readily clear. It's not about us/believers, Apostles, but all about Jesus, our Lord and Savior. The Head of the Church.

[Col 1:18 KJV] 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

[Eph 1:20-23 KJV] 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places], 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

When our Lord Ascended into Heaven and sat at the right hand of the Father! He was returning to heaven, having completed His earthly ministry.

[Psa 110:1 KJV] 1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

[Mar 16:19 KJV] 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

[Jhn 6:62 KJV] 62 [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

[Jhn 20:17 KJV] 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

[Luk 24:51 KJV] 51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

[Act 1:9 KJV] 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Repeated: [Col 1:18 KJV] 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

Repeated: [Eph 1:20-23 KJV] 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places], 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

\o/

There is no division in Christ Jesus brother. Only man creates a division that in truth there cannot be in Jesus! Rejoice that it is so! \o/
That is why regardless of what anyone says, when you meet someone, be it brother or sister in Christ, even if the language is a barrier to complete understanding, there is joy in the meeting! You are bonded by Him, by His Blood! Isn't that wonderful?!!!

Sorry got carried away there. lol

I hope you see it, and how wonderful it really is! I hope you receive this with the love in which it’s intended.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/

Hey Bro

I was thinking more about Christ before the foundation of the world

It was determined by the counsel of God to redeem Israel before the foundation of the world and reveal it by his prophets since the world began ***********
[Luke 1:68 KJV] "Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,"
[Luke 1:69 KJV] "And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;"
[Luke 1:70 KJV] "As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:"
[Luke 1:71 KJV] "That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;"
[1 Peter 1:20 KJV] "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"

It was also determined to save us before the foundation of the world ***********
[Ephesians 1:4 KJV] "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

Before the foundation of the world he determined to reconcile earth thru Israel and heaven by the body ********
[Colossians 1:20 KJV] "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven."

What was hid in God was his purpose to gather Israel and the earth and the body and heaven together in Christ ********
[Ephesians 1:9 KJV] "Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:"
[Ephesians 1:10 KJV] "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:"

 

[DougE]

What are you teaching? Scripture backs up Scripture all the way back to Genesis in types, foreshadowings and emblems.
Before the "Church" and current Church Age, the law abiding Jews went to the synagogue or temple....laws and sacrifices. Christ as the final sacrifice fulfilled the law and he was the last sacrifice. There was no other "Church" before the death of Christ.

Are you saying there wasn't a church in the old testament?
Are you saying there wasn't a church during his earthly ministry?

 

[RRLeath]

Are you saying there wasn't a church in the old testament?
Are you saying there wasn't a church during his earthly ministry?

No church before Christ died. There were temples and synogues to go listen to the law, theprophets, perform rituals and sacrifice. Christ taught and employed his apostles to start building His church. They preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ died for sinners. Jesus nullified the law and sacrifices. Remember his sermon on the mount? Prople had never heard teaching like that before.

 

[DougE]

No church before Christ died. There were temples and synogues to go listen to the law, theprophets, perform rituals and sacrifice. Christ taught and employed his apostles to start building His church. They preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ died for sinners. Jesus nullified the law and sacrifices. Remember his sermon on the mount? Prople had never heard teaching like that before.

There was a church in the old testament. A congregation is an assembly ******* [Exodus 12:6 KJV] "And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening." ******** it was called a church ****** [Acts 7:38 KJV] "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:"

Show me where his apostles preached that Christ died for all

 

[Christ4Ever]

Hey Nick

[Ephesians 1:3 KJV] "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:"
[Ephesians 1:4 KJV] "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

Christ chose us to be reconciled in Christ before the world was created and I would go so far as to say he determined to be the head of the church, the body, as well. So yes, when was Christ made our head? Before the world was even made

Yes there is a special bond with other believers
[Galatians 6:10 KJV] "As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all [men], especially unto them who are of the household of faith."
[John 13:34 KJV] "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another."
[Ephesians 4:2 KJV] "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;"

I was thinking more about Christ before the foundation of the world

Yes, but until He became fully man, and manifested Himself as man, it could not happen.

Similarity to what prophetic scripture is about before it happens. Until it happens, it hasn't happened and remains prophetic, though we know that it will happen though not the when.

Time shapes how we perceive reality, but it doesn’t apply to God. I believe He exists outside of time, fully in the “Now,” where past, present, and future all happen at once for Him. That’s why nothing ever surprises Him. The only exception was when He entered time as Jesus during His earthly ministry.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/

 

[DougE]

Yes, but until He became fully man, and manifested Himself as man, it could not happen.

Hey bro
Do you think it was more that it couldnt be manifested until his resurrection?

 

[Christ4Ever]

Hey bro
Do you think it was more that it couldnt be manifested until his resurrection?

Of course! You can't have one without the other.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/