Guess there's no need to continue on both of our opinions have been stated, it's all there in black and white, we simply disagree.
Financial Believing
- Thread starter Quenton
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Guess there's no need to continue on both of our opinions have been stated, it's all there in black and white, we simply disagree.
no surprise here either
jiggyfly -- as this thread has turned unilateral of late...it caused me to revisit some of your early thoughts / advice...below:
and I'm coming back just this one more time (yes, I know, Quenton will call foul, the fact that I'm posting on his thread after I've said I'm leaving this thread) to say this:
I've just mentally upgraded these Talk Jesus forums because of the wisdom that I can now witness among their crew of Moderators. AND...I'll apologize to you jiggyfly, for my early pushback to allow this discussion to continue, when you were giving clearer and more direct guidance to the contrary.
You were right, early on...and I was naive in this regard.
Good on you jiggy.
and I'm coming back just this one more time (yes, I know, Quenton will call foul, the fact that I'm posting on his thread after I've said I'm leaving this thread) to say this:
I've just mentally upgraded these Talk Jesus forums because of the wisdom that I can now witness among their crew of Moderators. AND...I'll apologize to you jiggyfly, for my early pushback to allow this discussion to continue, when you were giving clearer and more direct guidance to the contrary.
You were right, early on...and I was naive in this regard.
Good on you jiggy.
I'm just saying let your yes be yes and your no be no....because it's lying otherwise....
i don't want you to leave
SIE, it's really not necessary for apologies, I wasn't offended. I know you had good intentions of helping some to mature and avoid some of the dangers of the wof agenda. I appreciate your posts in this thread. Please don't be frustrated from this thread, continue to post on the forum and give insight often as you can.
Thanks for the confidence.
your the one speaking immaturity sir...so quit saying i lack maturity just because you don't want to admit to truth.. that is showing immaturity
Brother Mike
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WOF
Come to the light side... not let your anger overtake you....
Jesus Is Lord.
Come to the light side... not let your anger overtake you....
Jesus Is Lord.
Thiscrosshurts
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I posted this previously but got no response.
The churches in the book of Acts held everything in common.
It was,dare I say "a Communist community".
There were no rich or poor.
I am led to believe that this was the design of the Holy Spirit.
I am being asked to believe that God is a capitalist?
What would someone in a communist country like Cuba do?
Paul said a married man has to concern himself with the things of this world,how he may please his wife.
A rich man has to please many in order to maintain and grow.Will this
allow him to serve the Lord more?
The actual question wasoes anyone believe in believing for your finance?
My answer is if finances are a need(depends on your society) then "yes"
I'm not sure how this got to becoming rich at all.
The churches in the book of Acts held everything in common.
It was,dare I say "a Communist community".
There were no rich or poor.
I am led to believe that this was the design of the Holy Spirit.
I am being asked to believe that God is a capitalist?
What would someone in a communist country like Cuba do?
Paul said a married man has to concern himself with the things of this world,how he may please his wife.
A rich man has to please many in order to maintain and grow.Will this
allow him to serve the Lord more?
The actual question was
oes anyone believe in believing for your finance?My answer is if finances are a need(depends on your society) then "yes"
I'm not sure how this got to becoming rich at all.
Brother Mike
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Is God a capitalist.
I
Look at the story of the talents (pounds Kjv)......
Listening to some, one might think God would have said something like this..
Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
The first that came had taken that pound and made 10.
The second that came had invested to make their pound into 5
but the third man.. what did he do with the money?? He hid it away in fear of loosing it.
What did God say??
Oh, you were scared so you buried my talent just to make sure you did not loose it... How thoughtful of you. Now, now, I know you were scared to loose that one pound, so go ahead and keep it, everything will be alright..... and you boys that made money with what I gave you, go ahead and give this man some of yours... You can't be to greedy you know...
What really happened.........
Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
Luk 19:23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
Luk 19:24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
God took what he gave that man, and gave it to the man that produced the most money...... His servants even questioned him about this as Most Christians think the rich should be responsible for the unfaithful in what they do have..
Luk 19:25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
Luk 19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
Luk 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
---------------------------------------
Rich young ruler.............Mark 10...
Had he not left sad..... He would have heard Jesus tell him this....
Mar 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
Mar 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Jesus was not trying to make the man broke... Jesus was trying to get him to rely on God's system and become 100 times more rich...
Is God a capitalist...... ?? who knows... but those God gives increase to, do something with their money for the Kingdom, and it get's blessed.. those that hold on, and are not givers, even what they have is taken..
Jesus Is Lord.
I
Look at the story of the talents (pounds Kjv)......
Listening to some, one might think God would have said something like this..
Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
The first that came had taken that pound and made 10.
The second that came had invested to make their pound into 5
but the third man.. what did he do with the money?? He hid it away in fear of loosing it.
What did God say??
Oh, you were scared so you buried my talent just to make sure you did not loose it... How thoughtful of you. Now, now, I know you were scared to loose that one pound, so go ahead and keep it, everything will be alright..... and you boys that made money with what I gave you, go ahead and give this man some of yours... You can't be to greedy you know...
What really happened.........
Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
Luk 19:23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
Luk 19:24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
God took what he gave that man, and gave it to the man that produced the most money...... His servants even questioned him about this as Most Christians think the rich should be responsible for the unfaithful in what they do have..
Luk 19:25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
Luk 19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
Luk 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
---------------------------------------
Rich young ruler.............Mark 10...
Had he not left sad..... He would have heard Jesus tell him this....
Mar 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
Mar 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Jesus was not trying to make the man broke... Jesus was trying to get him to rely on God's system and become 100 times more rich...
Is God a capitalist...... ?? who knows... but those God gives increase to, do something with their money for the Kingdom, and it get's blessed.. those that hold on, and are not givers, even what they have is taken..
Jesus Is Lord.
Thiscrosshurts
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Do you suppose that this means we should abandon our family and obligations?No,of course you don't(right?)
Are these absolute formulas that we can rely on without exception?
There are no qualifiers and no possible variables like the kind of society you live in or whether war has destroyed your nation or perhaps your righteousness attracts powerful enemies?
This sounds like Dianetics w/Jesus stripes adding a nitro boost.
Are you saying that poverty is a sign that you don't love God or does God require the right ritual in the right order like electronics?
What did a Christian in Cuba do wrong to deserve the crushing poverty?
Oddly enough I never considered this to be about money.
However I do see manifold applications,faith being the main one but I suppose it could apply to actual money.
I do agree with your premise about the kingdom being increased(in all blessings) by applying faith principles and all you have presented does back that up.Also that it would include wealth in a capitalist society ,all things being equal.However all things are not equal.
I just think there are multiple variables to the formula.
Brother Mike
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Money $$
Your love for God is not based on being poor... and God loves the poor.
And for every person crushed by sickness, run over by a car, killed in a plane crash, or even poor. We have to stick with what the word says and have no idea what someone else really believed about God, the word, sin in there life, obedience and the list goes on... So say someone is rich because they gave, or someone is poor because they did not have faith is dangerous, and speculation.... God only knows, and we don't unless he shows us that person or people..
Oddly enough I never considered this to be about money.
However I do see manifold applications,faith being the main one but I suppose it could apply to actual money.
The Parable is about Money..... but comparing other scriptures and the love of money being the Root of all evil, with Jesus comparing being faithful in material to receive "True Riches (Not money)" It seems to be a standard test of where someone is with God, and how they feel about God.. What you value most, dictates how you feel about God..
But if you read into more......
Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
It's clear the Lord knew these men were instructed in trading and increasing the money. He expected as much when he returned. It's something they knew about, and had access to, yet one did not step out and take that chance or use what was given him...
That........ could mean other things besides just money...
Jesus Is Lord.
Your love for God is not based on being poor... and God loves the poor.
And for every person crushed by sickness, run over by a car, killed in a plane crash, or even poor. We have to stick with what the word says and have no idea what someone else really believed about God, the word, sin in there life, obedience and the list goes on... So say someone is rich because they gave, or someone is poor because they did not have faith is dangerous, and speculation.... God only knows, and we don't unless he shows us that person or people..
Oddly enough I never considered this to be about money.
However I do see manifold applications,faith being the main one but I suppose it could apply to actual money.
The Parable is about Money..... but comparing other scriptures and the love of money being the Root of all evil, with Jesus comparing being faithful in material to receive "True Riches (Not money)" It seems to be a standard test of where someone is with God, and how they feel about God.. What you value most, dictates how you feel about God..
But if you read into more......
Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
It's clear the Lord knew these men were instructed in trading and increasing the money. He expected as much when he returned. It's something they knew about, and had access to, yet one did not step out and take that chance or use what was given him...
That........ could mean other things besides just money...
Jesus Is Lord.
Thiscrosshurts
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It's not about money anyway,I was expecting someone to say that in a communist country they would increase by position,power and status.
The reason I mention the early church having all things in common meant that there was no difference between them.
Why do I need to live above my neighbor,if I really loved others as myself I would not be able to see my neighbor in need while I live sumptuously.
So I would have to move to a nicer neighborhood so I can't see the poverty from my house.That's the American way right.
You really don't need God to get rich.Just ambition and a good proven formula.Personally I like to be able to help people so having enough money to do that is a blessing to me and them.But if I for some reason lose everything I'm not going to go seeking where I missed a ritual.
The reason I mention the early church having all things in common meant that there was no difference between them.
Why do I need to live above my neighbor,if I really loved others as myself I would not be able to see my neighbor in need while I live sumptuously.
So I would have to move to a nicer neighborhood so I can't see the poverty from my house.That's the American way right.
You really don't need God to get rich.Just ambition and a good proven formula.Personally I like to be able to help people so having enough money to do that is a blessing to me and them.But if I for some reason lose everything I'm not going to go seeking where I missed a ritual.
I live in Africa where on an economic scale there is great poverty. Hunger is definitely real for some people. But once their bellies are filled, or for those who don't experience hunger so much, there is a world of wealth that they could offer to those of us used to a life of luxury. We have gotten used to thinking we have to have so much in order to be happy, but in many ways I think it works the other way. I believe happiness comes from contentment. When you're happy with next to nothing, you can really appreciate something so simple as a piece of fruit or something to put on your feet, or even just spending time with friends and family.
In our western way of thinking we think we can make the "poor" happy by giving them things. I do think giving is good, but we can also come across as arrogant if we don't realise that there is a lot we can learn from them about real happiness. Perhaps that is what Jesus meant when he said blessed are the poor, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
I think somewhere on this thread someone questioned whether wealth or prospering must be talking about money. Thank you for doing that.
In our western way of thinking we think we can make the "poor" happy by giving them things. I do think giving is good, but we can also come across as arrogant if we don't realise that there is a lot we can learn from them about real happiness. Perhaps that is what Jesus meant when he said blessed are the poor, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
I think somewhere on this thread someone questioned whether wealth or prospering must be talking about money. Thank you for doing that.
Brother Mike
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The topic...
Let's stick with the Topic....
This is not about being poor or content.
We have already discussed that "Money" is not a measure of wealth.
Friend: do you believe it's OK to believe God for actual finances??
Jesus Is Lord.
Let's stick with the Topic....
Do we believe God for money??
This is not about being poor or content.
We have already discussed that "Money" is not a measure of wealth.
Friend: do you believe it's OK to believe God for actual finances??
Jesus Is Lord.
Last edited:
I'm new to this forum so went over several pages of this thread, and felt my comment was relevant to what others were discussing. Some people were suggesting that saying that God will provide is somehow putting down the poor as if their poverty is a result of their sin. I was responding to that thought.
Yes, thank you. I appreciated that.
Yes, I do. I have no fixed income but have been managing okay trusting God to provide. The issue of poverty also fits into this topic, in that I think a fear of poverty is probably the biggest hindrance to taking a chance financially for God. From my experience, if you expect God to give you a whole bunch of luxuries while trusting in him financially, you're probably going to be disappointed. But if you expect to have almost nothing, then you really appreciate all the little things He does provide.
Love and peace.
Brother Mike
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Good answer.
Welcome!!! I did not mean going out of topic was bad... just your view on the topic being your first post to the thread.....
Just some questions to consider....something to think about.
Fear certainly hold us back from anything...........
A pair of shoes to walk in, to get places.
A bicycle, or animal, to get places.
A junk car to get to places.
A OK car to get to places.
A fairly expensive Car to get to places.
A very exotic car, to get to places. (Lamborghini, Ferrari, .....)
What would be considered a Luxury place to live?
A shack made of boards, tin and some cardboard. (no water or electricity)
A one room semi sturdy built house with water near by.
A flat or apartment, with working utilities.
A house of your own. and utilities.
A very nice house, better than what most have around you.
A multi-million dollar mansion, with swimming pool, and court yards.
What would be considered a Luxury Watch?
Sundial.
cheap 2.00 watch.
decent watch for about 20.00
expensive watch, 100.00 or more.
exotic watch, encrusted with real diamonds... 100,000 or more.
Who determines what is expensive, and what is considered to be a luxury?
Is it better for Christians to...............
A) To be poor and humble, just thanking God for their needs meet.
B) Try to do well in this worlds economic system and help when they can.
C) Believe God for extreme wealth, give and it shall be given, operating the things of God, with means to do so.
Pro 11:10 When it goeth well with the righteous, the city rejoiceth: and when the wicked perish, there is shouting.
Pro 29:2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.
Deu 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
Jesus Is Lord...
Welcome!!! I did not mean going out of topic was bad... just your view on the topic being your first post to the thread.....
Just some questions to consider....something to think about.
Fear certainly hold us back from anything...........
What would be considered a Luxury Transportation?
A pair of shoes to walk in, to get places.
A bicycle, or animal, to get places.
A junk car to get to places.
A OK car to get to places.
A fairly expensive Car to get to places.
A very exotic car, to get to places. (Lamborghini, Ferrari, .....)
What would be considered a Luxury place to live?
A shack made of boards, tin and some cardboard. (no water or electricity)
A one room semi sturdy built house with water near by.
A flat or apartment, with working utilities.
A house of your own. and utilities.
A very nice house, better than what most have around you.
A multi-million dollar mansion, with swimming pool, and court yards.
What would be considered a Luxury Watch?
Sundial.
cheap 2.00 watch.
decent watch for about 20.00
expensive watch, 100.00 or more.
exotic watch, encrusted with real diamonds... 100,000 or more.
Who determines what is expensive, and what is considered to be a luxury?
Is it better for Christians to...............
A) To be poor and humble, just thanking God for their needs meet.
B) Try to do well in this worlds economic system and help when they can.
C) Believe God for extreme wealth, give and it shall be given, operating the things of God, with means to do so.
Pro 11:10 When it goeth well with the righteous, the city rejoiceth: and when the wicked perish, there is shouting.
Pro 29:2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.
Deu 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
Jesus Is Lord...
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do you mean is gain godliness? or should we be greedy? not sure what you mean
I posted this previously but got no response.
The churches in the book of Acts held everything in common.
It was,dare I say "a Communist community".
There were no rich or poor.
I am led to believe that this was the design of the Holy Spirit.
I am being asked to believe that God is a capitalist?
What would someone in a communist country like Cuba do?
Paul said a married man has to concern himself with the things of this world,how he may please his wife.
A rich man has to please many in order to maintain and grow.Will this
allow him to serve the Lord more?
The actual question was
My answer is if finances are a need(depends on your society) then "yes"
I'm not sure how this got to becoming rich at all.
Are you wanting me to explain Acts, Paul, or that you do believe in financial believing?
Welcome!!! I did not mean going out of topic was bad... just your view on the topic being your first post to the thread.....
Just some questions to consider....something to think about.
Fear certainly hold us back from anything...........
What would be considered a Luxury Transportation?
...
Mike, thanks for your welcome and your thoughts. Sorry I took so long to respond. I was actually not sure how to respond for a while. I think that is because I am more of a doer than a theoriser. I don't think you have to have all the details worked out in advance, you just get on with the work of trusting God and acting according to his will in your life and let Him do the rest. In John 7:17 Jesus says the person who does what He teaches will know whether those teachings are really from God or not. That's why I'm more a doer. I've found it works in my life and I believe it can work for others too as long as your expectations for what God must do for you are not too high.
Let me finish with a thought from Philipians 4 (the same chapter that says God will supply our needs according to his riches in glory).
"..for I have learnt to be satisfied with what I have. I know what it is to be in need and what it is to have more than enough. I have learnt this secret, so that anywhere, at any time, I am content, whether I am full or hungry, whether I have too much or too little. I have the strength to face all conditions by the power that Christ gives me." (Phil 4:11-13)
Love and blessings.
