God gives to whom He pleases, just and unjust.
Financial Believing
- Thread starter Quenton
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God gives to whom He pleases, just and unjust.
the cross is for sin...more than self...
does God give just to give?
Brother Mike
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God gives........
Jiggyfly:
Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Mar 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Job 36:11 If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.
Mat 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Jesus Is Lord
Jiggyfly:
Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Mar 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Job 36:11 If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.
Mat 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Jesus Is Lord
I thought the reference was to the individual's cross and Jesus' instruction to pick it up and follow Him, which has nothing to do with sin but rather self. Seems you are talking about the cross of Christ, my apologies.
Failing to see your point BM, are you arguing that God does not give to whom He pleases?
Went back and checked and it seems I was right it was referring to the individual's cross and Christ's instruction to pick it up and follow Him, so you should try a study of the context and get a better/deeper understanding of the scripture.This cross has nothing to do with sin and everything to do with denying self.
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Quenton: say what you will, my friend...but all I did was reflect back to you what you said. If you don't like hearing what I said, then that might tell you something about your belief system. And yes, it needs repair. As does mine. As does everybody's.
And no. You're wrong. God does not give just to those whose heart is for the ministry. Wealth is distributed, it appears - at least to us, from our human perspective - relatively randomly. And no, wealth is not more concentrated among those "whose heart is for the ministry".
It's just simply not the case. And BM's Bible verses don't support that belief system either. Just take - as one example - the two wealthiest guys in America: Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. You think God has blessed those guys because their hearts are "for the ministry"?
You think God gave all the wealth needed for Hitler and Stalin to attempt to hijack the world, Quenton?
I'm saying your belief system is flawed. I understand you don't like hearing it.
Brother Mike
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Prosperity, is it what we think??
Jiggyfly:
The point is that Mans Actions are conclusive and in relationship to what we receive from God. God choosing to give what "God" wants to give is not a more sure thing as faith and obedience to the Word, and keeping in line with What God had already said. For many, they are without God, and without hope in this World...
S.I.E
Even without scriptures............
Job 36:11 If they obey and serve Him, they shall spend their days in prosperity and their years in pleasantness and joy.
Isa 1:19 If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land;
Deu 28:11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee. (Are we not the Seed of Abraham??)
There are many things we do, and choose to do in natural things that bring in little or bring in much. I know many that confess and try to believe that God is going to make them wealthy, yet choose not to do something different.. Any material wealth must come though the Worlds system... and if we study the Word.. it's the Wisdom of God that brings understanding.
In other words.. if you continue to do what you have always done, you will continue to get what you have always gotten.
God blesses the Work of our hands.... We have to find something that our hands can do, besides what we are doing now that has brought poverty.
Sure, God has given me several hundreds of dollars through others and have met my needs, but unless I change my thinking and what I am doing. Unless I find something to step out in, and put my hands to. Then I am going to stay about the same..
If you study the most successful, you will find something in common with them... They never give up, and failure is not a sign to quit........
Jesus Is Lord.
Jiggyfly:
The point is that Mans Actions are conclusive and in relationship to what we receive from God. God choosing to give what "God" wants to give is not a more sure thing as faith and obedience to the Word, and keeping in line with What God had already said. For many, they are without God, and without hope in this World...
S.I.E
Even without scriptures............
Job 36:11 If they obey and serve Him, they shall spend their days in prosperity and their years in pleasantness and joy.
Isa 1:19 If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land;
Deu 28:11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee. (Are we not the Seed of Abraham??)
There are many things we do, and choose to do in natural things that bring in little or bring in much. I know many that confess and try to believe that God is going to make them wealthy, yet choose not to do something different.. Any material wealth must come though the Worlds system... and if we study the Word.. it's the Wisdom of God that brings understanding.
In other words.. if you continue to do what you have always done, you will continue to get what you have always gotten.
God blesses the Work of our hands.... We have to find something that our hands can do, besides what we are doing now that has brought poverty.
Sure, God has given me several hundreds of dollars through others and have met my needs, but unless I change my thinking and what I am doing. Unless I find something to step out in, and put my hands to. Then I am going to stay about the same..
If you study the most successful, you will find something in common with them... They never give up, and failure is not a sign to quit........
Jesus Is Lord.
uhh...yeah. Not so much, BM. Genesis 3 is fairly clear, and extremely broad-sweeping...
<SUP id=en-NIV-73 class=versenum>17</SUP> To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
<SUP id=en-NIV-74 class=versenum>18</SUP> It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
<SUP id=en-NIV-75 class=versenum>19</SUP> By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”
Are you Stephen Covey, or Brother Mike? Are you trying to emulate Bill Gates, or are you trying to emulate Jesus?
This has been exactly my point all along. WoF followers (as a category -- I realize there are some few exceptions at the personal level) seem to often focus on the "7 habits of highly successful people" kind of stuff, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
AND THE TWO ARE NOT THE SAME.
It's not that the Joel Olsteen's of the world don't have some good / interesting things to say...it's jus that it is NOT THE GOSPEL, and people take it as such.
And that, is the lie of it.
So, BM...you want to study the rich, for business purposes or whatever...go ahead. Makes all the sense. But if and when you want to somehow mix this into your "religion", and consider it "Gospel", you are on a very slippery slope.
Yes, you're right "they never give up", etc. But, the question is, WHO CARES? And remind yourself that no one was wealthier than Solomon. Many consider that he was the wealthiest person who ever lived, even on an inflation-adjusted basis. So, remind yourself of that, and then ask yourself if it mattered, or what it did for him.
Solomon talked of...
- the folly of human wisdom 1:12-18
- the weariness of repetition 1:4-11
- laughter and relaxation is madness and vanity when out of balance 2:3
- he hates life "under the sun" 2:12-17
- all work done "under the sun" is "striving after the wind"
- vanity, vanity...all is vanity
and in today's dollars, he was probably 3 or 4 times richer than the richest man on this earth today. And he spoke unabashedly about his existence.
What a jewel of text.
And consider what Jesus said about Solomon here:
Matthew 6:28-29
New International Version (NIV)
<SUP id=en-NIV-23311 class=versenum>28</SUP> “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. <SUP id=en-NIV-23312 class=versenum>29</SUP> Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.
Hence, my wondering why we would study such people who "never give up" (i.e., toiling under the sun). I mean, there is a lot I admire about success stories too, BM...but given the chance, wouldn't you rather be a flower in the field who doesn't labor or spin.
If I could become such a flower, I would consider that a great success.
do you not turn from sin to deny yourself? yourself is flesh..flesh is what allows sin
so in other words your saying that things just happen God doesn't get involved....that is very ungodly
no the Devil did maybe you should start paying attention and quit asking stupid questions like that. I alread ysaid God gives to those who are in the ministry. But also the Devil gives to those who are of the world so they don't come to Christ. God doesn't use Hitler until Hitler gets saved. God gives to His own that ask of Him. Did Christ heal the sick that didn't come to Him no he did not they ahd to come first.
yours is flawed in this area for sure since you think things just happen and God doesn't get involved.
Brother Mike
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Refocus
Is it OK to believe God for financial prosperity?? This is not just getting your needs met.
If it is not OK, then why would one feel that way..??
A) afraid money would destroy them.
B) God does not bother with that kind of nonsense.
C) I am happy the way I am now.
D) We should not mix Worldly money and the things of God together.
E) We don't want to get people's Hopes up.
If it is OK to ask God for wealth, Why would one feel that way..??
A) To be a greater blessing to others when it comes to money.
B) To further the gospel.
C) I hate work, and would rather have money to do what I want.
There are reasons why people believe the way they do.
It's when we want to keep our money and not put God first.
It's when we want money for selfish Gain.
It's when we made a few attempts to get ahead, and failed so we blame God for not wanting everyone to have money. (Pride)
that is when it's a issue...
Trying to prove each other right or wrong with scripture will go on forever if the heart is not examined...
Jesus Is Lord.
Questions are good!!! We much each understand that all of us is looking at scripture through a doctrinal belief system. Let's refocus!!
Is it OK to believe God for financial prosperity?? This is not just getting your needs met.
If it is not OK, then why would one feel that way..??
A) afraid money would destroy them.
B) God does not bother with that kind of nonsense.
C) I am happy the way I am now.
D) We should not mix Worldly money and the things of God together.
E) We don't want to get people's Hopes up.
If it is OK to ask God for wealth, Why would one feel that way..??
A) To be a greater blessing to others when it comes to money.
B) To further the gospel.
C) I hate work, and would rather have money to do what I want.
There are reasons why people believe the way they do.
It's when we want to keep our money and not put God first.
It's when we want money for selfish Gain.
It's when we made a few attempts to get ahead, and failed so we blame God for not wanting everyone to have money. (Pride)
that is when it's a issue...
Trying to prove each other right or wrong with scripture will go on forever if the heart is not examined...
Jesus Is Lord.
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Quention - I'm sure you won't mind hearing that I'm going to now choose to bow out of this.
You have God in a box...and far be it from me to upset what you've been content to have contained. You think you know what is "godly" and what is not "godly". Ok then. If that's what you're content to do, then I suggest you just continue to look at your box, and make sure you don't look into the real world to see what actually happens, and how wealthy distributes itself. That would certainly challenge your box-view. Something which appears to threaten you.
The fact that you attempt to "make sense" of wealth distribution by attributing it all back to God, in and of itself, tells me that you believe money is a faith-thing. Perhaps you want to go on that journey with BM that I recommended, and inform all those billions of poor people in the world that they simply don't have faith in God, or perhaps enough faith in God, that they are going to hell.
I can't help you see any further that you are dealing with logical fallacy. And now, calling me stupid, you are caught up using Ad Hominem arguments...so, reasoning is now gone, as am I...
you already said you was leaving once i believe...i don't want anyone to leave the convo but you didnt persent a arguement that went anywhere.
false logic is yours as my faith works it manifest it doesn't just happen when it happens. And i can't tell people to believe God...do you ask God for your money no you don't so your not using any faith.
i did not say you was stupid so i now don't think you competley read what I say
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I thought SIE did a pretty good job presenting an argument but you seem to be avoiding it.
So do you believe that in order to get anything from God you must ask for it???
Wow then I guess a mute hasn't a chance to receive anything from God.
Simply ludicrous.
give me scripture that says a mute did...Wow then I guess a mute hasn't a chance to receive anything from God.
Simply ludicrous.
