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Financial Believing

Word of faith

james g

You are confused about this movement.......and judging others is not a good thing..

My own son had cancer, and in the hospital... He was suppose to be dead the next morning...

Faith does not dictate how God does things, and nobody is opposed to going to the Doctor.

Looking at what others receive and don't receive is not keeping focused on the Word... Fred Price himself for example said he would not get treated at a doctor... He wrote in his book Faith, foolishness and presumption that he has no right to put what he believed even on his wife, and his wife is doing fine by the way..

Ken Hagin, Oral Roberts lived long lives, and all the glory goes to God.

You also forget to mention the victories that God has given men of faith as Ken Hagin was suppose to be dead at 16, but you did not mention that... Kennth Copeland still fly's a jet at the age of 74.. you missed that also... 'and Copeland only missed one meeting in 30 years because of a back issue that He missed God on... pretty amazing .......

Perhaps you need to examine some things here.

Jesus Is Lord.
 
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You also forget to mention the...
...Kennth Copeland still fly's a jet at the age of 74.. you missed that also...

you're giving him accolades for that?

Yes...Kenneth Copeland (heretic) owns, in fact, 3 planes. But, his church has a small fleet of planes, including a Cessna Citation X, worth just under $20 million! And, of course, a full time pilot is on the church payroll too!

They were getting a tax-writeoff on all these planes because they claimed they used them for disaster relief, prison outreach, worldwide conventions, and church meetings...but our legal system called their bluff on that, so they aren't tax deductable anymore.

What a scam'ster!!!!

Of course to him, it's all "blessings from the lawd ah'lmighty!!" [please call our 1-800 number and give us more money, please?? Please?? C'mon...put your faith in Christ, and give us that "seed gift" already!!!]

The guy should be put in prison.
 
amazing

My hope is that you fully comprehend someday the fullness of God blessing you, and 20 million is nothing since our Father in Heaven lives on streets made of Gold.. (1,100 per troy ounce on earth)

Don't think small.......... we have a job to do still..

Jesus Is Lord.
 
you're giving him accolades for that?

Yes...Kenneth Copeland (heretic) owns, in fact, 3 planes. But, his church has a small fleet of planes, including a Cessna Citation X, worth just under $20 million! And, of course, a full time pilot is on the church payroll too!

They were getting a tax-writeoff on all these planes because they claimed they used them for disaster relief, prison outreach, worldwide conventions, and church meetings...but our legal system called their bluff on that, so they aren't tax deductable anymore.

What a scam'ster!!!!

Of course to him, it's all "blessings from the lawd ah'lmighty!!" [please call our 1-800 number and give us more money, please?? Please?? C'mon...put your faith in Christ, and give us that "seed gift" already!!!]

The guy should be put in prison.

If God is giving it to him what would you say?
 
If God is giving it to him what would you say?
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

But that's Jesus,I would say "what part of pick up your cross and follow Jesus don't you understand".

Of course that's not required....unless one desires to be perfect.
Let Kenny have his planes,that's as close to perfect as he may get.

20 million is nothing unless your trying to raise a family of 5 on $11.00 an hour in America.Then it seems like a lot.
there are retires trying to live on $600.00
That's probably Kenny's pool cleaning bill.

Do it in the name of Jesus,YOU can justify it in the end.
 
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Others prosperity.

Well, Brother Copeland had the means to give me books and Tapes while I was in prison... Stood on his obedience to teach faith and believed God without doubting that my son would live through cancer though he was suppose to be dead the next morning.

He taught me through the Word how to hear the Holy Spirit, Hearing the Spirit of the Lord concerning one of my children who had several blood infections and the doctors could not figure out why.. God gave me the answer, and I told them, God saving my son once again.

There are men on TV that I don't listen to, and certainly don't agree with lots of stuff out there. Certainly don't agree with lots of more traditional teaching that God just may want you sick..

But one thing I have learned... I don't despise anyone that is more blessed than me, and we are to follow those who through faith and patience inherited the promises...

I have learned not to put my mouth on other ministers, for they have a Lord to answer to (Even Brother Hinn)

I have laid hands and prayed for those that have died anyway, I have seen God move in awesome ways through people's finances where they homes were going to be lost... I can only go by what the Word says, and not what I see..

I have given our last money for food, and hotel rent as we had no place to stay, not sure how to feed my family tomorrow but God came through and tripled what I gave in a weeks time.

It's to late to tell me, God will let anyone down, wants anyone broke, does not want to show his mighty works in the lives of his children...

Those that will stop making excuses, put God first with everything, even above their family and will not doubt..... That is the person that will always have the victory, because it's our faith in the Word that overcomes anything this World can bring.....

Jesus Is Lord.
 
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

But that's Jesus,I would say "what part of pick up your cross and follow Jesus don't you understand".

Of course that's not required....unless one desires to be perfect.
Let Kenny have his planes,that's as close to perfect as he may get.

20 million is nothing unless your trying to raise a family of 5 on $11.00 an hour in America.Then it seems like a lot.
there are retires trying to live on $600.00
That's probably Kenny's pool cleaning bill.

Do it in the name of Jesus,YOU can justify it in the end.

pick up your cross is regarding sin not money.

and your first one d oesn't say whether or not God provide3s money
 
Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God."'If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for him who believes."If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true--even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.And who can win this battle against the world? Only those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God.Who wins the victory over the world? Isn't it the person who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
 
Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God."'If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for him who believes."If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true--even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.And who can win this battle against the world? Only those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God.Who wins the victory over the world? Isn't it the person who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

is this for or against?
 
If God is giving it to him what would you say?

God didn't give it to him Quenton. Wake up. Widows and orphans, and other such ordinary people have financed his lavish lifestyle. No different than Mr. Benny Hinn (another heretic). I don't understand why these guys don't go to prison, but if they find a guy like Bernie Madoff, he goes to prison. It's scam'ster-ism of the first degree by both parties...but somehow, these guys hide behind the veil of religiosity, so it gets a bit of a "hall-pass". Except when it becomes flagrant enough, as it has with Mr Hinn...and as it has more recently with Mr Copeland and all his planes & jets.

God didn't give it to him. The people God came to save - the marginalized, the poor, those in actual financial need: they gave it to him.

So, the question really should be to you: what would you say if Mr. Copeland has gotten such wealth through scam'ster-ism, and if he's done it by ripping off those who shouldn't have afforded to give to him in the first place...but they did, because he 'promised' them something, and they have that vapor or hope within them, so they wrote a check to pay for 3 miles of jet-fuel for his Citation X (which, apparently, some of you think that he NEEDS that for his ministry). Yeah....I can just imagine Jesus today, jet-setting across the globe for His Father. ('scuze me while I puke)


Well, Brother Copeland had the means to give me books and Tapes while I was in prison... Stood on his obedience

What a lie. What deceit. Look man - I'm glad you got something out of his books while you were in the slammer...I really am...but God can use ANYONE to speak to you. Even those that aren't working for the Kingdom. If you don't believe that, then YOU are thinking small here. OF COURSE "Brother" Copeland had the means. He defrauded people to get said means! ...and his followers believe he is doing his work "out of obedience". That tells me he will continue to accumulate vast amount of more wealth in the future. He can, apparently, DO NO WRONG in the eyes of his followers. Great for him. He's REALLY REALLY GOOD at selling snake oil. And he's smart enough to know there are buyers. Benny Hinn operated on the exact same business model.


But one thing I have learned... I don't despise anyone that is more blessed than me, and we are to follow those who through faith and patience inherited the promises...

Yeah, nor do I BM. Nor do I. THIS ISN'T ABOUT THAT. You think my attitude towards these scam'sters is because I'm somehow jealous of their material wealth?

I'll tell you what: I wouldn't trade places with them on my worst day! I cant afford the debt they'll need to repay in the afterlife. Nor can you. Nor can they...but who can speak into their lives???


I have learned not to put my mouth on other ministers, for they have a Lord to answer to (Even Brother Hinn)

Brother Hinn? Really? You put him in a camp, such that you refer to him as a "Brother"?

Anyways: what of discernment, hmm? No one is saying these guys should be bad-mouthed...but what of discernment? What of speaking the TRUTH of their heresy? Didn't Jesus Himself speak the raw truth to the Pharisees? That wasn't bad-mouthing...that was Him using discernment, and then bringing out the sword, in the form of speaking the truth of their lying evil ways. That was an offer of GRACE on His part, as He helped out those who might otherwise have listened to the Pharisees evil and misguided teachings.

YOU SHOULD speak out against false teachings. The problem here is that you have been deceived by them. And you carry the same torch, much to the dismay of those who hear it, who don't know better.


It's to late to tell me, God will let anyone down, wants anyone broke, does not want to show his mighty works in the lives of his children...

Again, it's not about whether God WANTS or DOESN'T WANT someone "broke" or "rich", it's about WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR SITUATION no matter what it may look like, in terms of WHAT YOU DO WITH GOD in your life. IT'S ABOUT TRUST, BM. Trust, no matter what.

And sometimes, God may cause you to deal with that by having a big balance sheet, or, for others, God may cause you to deal with that by having no balance sheet. But, IT AINT ABOUT THE BALANCE SHEET!

That is a lie, and is deceit.

And yes, JESUS IS LORD! ABOVE ALL!
 
i said what if..

however I know for a fact that it's not the Devil who gives us them oney because i personally ask God to provide to increase my relationship. So who is giving me the money?
 
umph.....

S.I.E

I am starting to think we are not going to see eye to eye here on this..

The whole topic was..

Is it Ok to believe God for money...

Of course it is, He said He will supply all of our needs.. and we need to believe what is written. Phil 4:19

How we got into this false Doctrine stuff, and denominational belief's is beyond me... I will take blame.

The thing is.... I know lots of Baptist, and over people of the more traditional belief systems. I know Baptist that even Pray in tongues and never mention and thing about it when the preach in their Church.

I know some, I don't even mention tongues to.... or the prosperity gospel as it's called.

but, we all do agree that Jesus Is Lord.. We agree that allowing Homosexual pastor's to take the pulpit is wrong, or anyone in immoral acts is wrong... We agree Jesus is the only way to God, and salvation.

and if you want to look at what is corrupt... look at the sin issue in the Churches...

Presbyterians, Methodist, and Lutheran's all voted for Gay ministers, and have openly gay minsters preaching in their churches..

That is 16 million people now following the wrong denomination by name..

to me.. that is troubling..

Jesus Is Lord.
 
The whole topic was..

Is it Ok to believe God for money...

Of course it is, He said He will supply all of our needs.. and we need to believe what is written. Phil 4:19
Now that is solid doctrine
If I find myself in need I want to refer to that verse.
If I find myself in prosperity I want to remember that verse.
Once my needs are fulfilled I have the choice to build more barns to hold my ever increasing stuff or use worldly wealth to gain friends so that when it is gone,I will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.
 
i said what if..

however I know for a fact that it's not the Devil who gives us them oney because i personally ask God to provide to increase my relationship. So who is giving me the money?

...and this is exactly why the Devil has chosen to use the issue of money as a point of deceit. Because, money, in and of itself, isn't bad or good...it's just a thing. Happens to be a thing that we all need to live our lives. And, it's generally a helpful/useful thing (at least, in all of our human minds) to have more rather than less.

So, it's a matter of degree, when it comes to ones belief system on this stuff...which is why I so vehemently disagree with the whole Benny Hinn / Kenneth Copeland / WoF false-doctrines.

Quenton - of course I can't say who is giving you the money. It's probably not the devil, nor God. You work for somebody, or you have your own business, or whatever...so, the good and services you work with have value to somebody else, and they pay you for it. That's how you have money. Whatever the case for you, it is either in God's perfect will for your life, or it is in his permissive will for your life. Same with the likes of Benny Hinn. All our goals should be to live in His perfect will. Why are fraudulent guys like Benny Hinn / Kenny boy Copeland allowed to rip off the poor and needy so they can jet-set around the world? They live in God's permissive will. He permits it, because He is not going to mess with choice. Our choice. Benny Hinn's choice.

And so, it is Benny Hinn who has to answer to God. And answer, he will. As will I. I would just prefer to answer for my life, then having to answer for Benny Hinn's life...or Kenny Copelands life. And you, or course, have to answer for yours. It sounds like you, Quenton, have conviction that your financial life is being steered by God, and God is the one providing. It sounds like you are believing you are living in and through His perfect will, at least regarding finances. Who am I to challenge that. Well done.

The whole topic was..

Is it Ok to believe God for money...

Of course it is, He said He will supply all of our needs.. and we need to believe what is written. Phil 4:19

well...as I said to Quenton above...it's a matter of degree, and how far you want to take this message. What you state above, I totally agree with. Wholeheartedly. But, again, that's NOT where it stops with prosperity doctrine folks, like yourself. That where it starts. And from there, it's not long before folks believe that God is willing for them to have a $20 million Citation X jet plane. (For God's Kingdom...of course)

Or, Lamborghini's...as the case may be.

I get why it's a popular message...don't get me wrong. It's the same kind of message that caused the Jews to miss the Messiah (they are still looking for Him to this day) --- because they were looking for a guy to come in victoriously, kick some donkey's-behind, and bring them back to a place of prosperity and the good-life. They were looking for a guy who would do the things you're assuming Jesus can do (and, will do) for you.

And if you read your Biblical History, that's simply not what Jesus came to do. It wasn't His intent. He didn't give them an easier/better life, as you say He will do for you. He didn't do much of anything to alleviate their suffering and hardship. Men are slaves to the soil then, and men are slaves to the soil today.

It's just how life is, BM...and it's that way, because that's how God designed this part of our eternal lives to be.

The faster you accept that, and the more you get out of denial about it, the more life-filled and love-filled you will become.

And you can take THAT to the bank, my friend. But, it won't be green-backs you'll be depositing...it will be much better.

My problem isn't with Phil 4:19. My problem is that's just the starting point for the Kenneth Copeland's of the world. Of course when you state the starting premise of the prosperity gospel, most Christians will agree wholeheartedly with it. That doesn't excuse the heresy of where the doctrine goes from that point forward. And it is nothing less than a heresy.


and if you want to look at what is corrupt... look at the sin issue in the Churches...

Presbyterians, Methodist, and Lutheran's all voted for Gay ministers, and have openly gay minsters preaching in their churches..

That is 16 million people now following the wrong denomination by name..

to me.. that is troubling..

Jesus Is Lord.


Hey BM...if it comforts you to close out this conversation by focusing on someone else's log-in-the-eye, I'm sorry for you bro. I'm not sure why you're bringing this up at this point. We went from talking apples, to you talking pineapples.

We can certainly talk about this subject if you like...but I might suggest another thread. Also, it may be a bit presumptuous on your part to assume that everyone you're talking to here, including myself, would necessarily agree with you on this point that you now bring up. I suppose it's an attempt to find common ground as we close this out?

Peace and life to you, BM. I don't know why, but you seem to be training me to close the way you do...so I will: Jesus Is Lord. :-)
 
pick up your cross is regarding sin not money.

and your first one d oesn't say whether or not God provide3s money

We are to give every aspect of our life to Jesus. Not just sin, but
finances, relationships, work, hobbies, everything. We can not
hold anything from Jesus. So yes, it applies to EVERYTHING,
not just 'sin'. Cain held back in his sacrafice, and because of that,
God was not pleased. Abel gave God the first of his flock.
In our lives today, we must give God the first of our time,
our finances, and our energy. If we can't follow God and let
Him be Lord over our finances, then our entire life isn't
given to the Lord. He wants all of us, not a part.
 
The Blessings..

dannibear:
we must give God the first of our time,
our finances, and our energy

The Key's to the Blessings. Honor God, and he said he would honor you. To put other things first like you own bills, time and energy, you will be lightly esteemed..

Jesus Is Lord.

 
I actually don't have a job..so I'm not working for anyone but God..and God provides
 
dannibear:


The Key's to the Blessings. Honor God, and he said he would honor you. To put other things first like you own bills, time and energy, you will be lightly esteemed..

Jesus Is Lord.

I am not saying to honor bills and time and energy.
My post was saying the opposite.
I am confused by your comment. lol
 
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