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Jari, Jesus challenges us to have child-like faith in him. That is why he held up children as examples. You are correct in saying that children do not strive, but, as spiritual babes-in-Christ grow and mature, their challenge is to follow through in striving to develop the relationship with the Lord that child-like faith in Him plants in their lives.

SLE
 
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The branches need the life flowing into them to produce the fruit. God is love and w/o love everything is done in vain. Love is the (sap) lifeblood, and that is what's evidenced in the believer. Love can't help but give out of love.

Amen, Abigail.

Something Cody said in his first post struck me as being true. There's nothing wrong with young children coming to Christ, and it happens all the time in a sincere, real way. There are, however, instances when a child merely repeats a prayer and does not remember it or it makes no change in the child's life.

Some, like James Dobson, grasp God's love through the Holy Spirit. (James Dobson says he was saved at age 3.)

Amy Carmichael, the passionate missionary to China, was saved at an early age also; I think it was age 4.

These people remember their salvation experience clearly and sensed the Holy Spirit's work in them.

But a child repeating a prayer like an empty echo does not work.

Even my own daughter was saved a year ago and has borne much fruit since then! Initially, I thought she was saved at age 7. But she says she could not remember saying the prayer or why she said it. So at age 14, she surrendered her heart to Jesus:love:

Of course, she did not tell me this until months after receiving Christ. (She is not a trusting, open person and bottles things up inside.) But when she told me, I was greatly elated, but I was not that surprised....because I wondered why after all this time, she was starting to bear the fruits of the spirit (Gal. 5:22).

She was afraid to tell me, because she thought I would be angry with her, because I was the one who led her to Christ when she was seven. I told her that I was not angry; that I was very, very happy!!!
 
I think there are good posts in this thread and I don't disagree with anything. However I'm just concerned how Satan can use this to attack some one's faith. Accusing of us for not having X amount of works.

Rom 10:6-7 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) (7) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

Good to read: (Rom 10:4-13)
 
Thanks for the reply, Jari. I don't think I said anything about having x amount of works in this thread. If that was the case(needing to have x amount of works to get to heaven) I would go straight to hell. We are saved by the blood of Jesus alone and it's nothing we do. I just wanted to point out that we need to live like Christians and if we're not, we need to consider ourselves. God Bless
 
Works are necessary for salvation from the standpoint that works are the evidence of faith. You quoted Ephesians 2:8-9, but you chose to omit verse 10. This verse is important to this discussion because it says, "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works which God prepared in advance for us to do.",

I would also point out James 2:14 - "What good is it, my brothers, if a man has faith and no deeds? Can such a faith save him?" According to my study Bible, the "faith" James refers to in this quote is only an intellectual faith i.e., mere acceptance of certain truths without trust in Christ.

The bottom line is that faith without works is nothing but a mental exercise; it has no power to save.


SLE
 
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Thank you all for the replies. God bless.

James 2 is good to read in concept. It speaks about favoring rich man over poor man or lesser brother (James 2:2-3). And the one type of works it speaks about is giving food and clothes to those brothers you see naked and "destitute of daily food" (James 2:16).
 
reamer,

Your post about your daughter's salvation experience reminds me of my own experience. In grade school I had a horrible time with self esteem. I was quite clumsy and thus suffered a lot of humiliation from my peers. In religion classes I was told that I could go into the church building and visit God anytime I needed to (They kept the church open 24/7 in those days). Its too bad that they didn't tell me i could talk to Him outside the church building, but, that's another topic for another thread.

I came to Christ at age 46. One day during prayer and meditation, I asked God why He had sent His Spirit into my life. Instantly He took me back to a day I had totally forgotten about; a day on which I had stumbled into that church building broken hearted after yet another humiliation and blurted out something like this: "Lord, for whatever it's worth, I give my life to you."Within a couple of days I forgot the incident, but God remembered, and in the fullness of time (30+ years later) He sent His Spirit and rescued me.

I think your daughter's salvation experience at age seven was real because her prayer was sincere.But, like mine, it was kind of like one of those delayed entry military enlistments we hear of today: the deal was sealed for her at age seven, but the time just wasn't right. And when the time was right, He came and got her.

SLE
 
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But she says she could not remember saying the prayer or why she said it.

I think this means her prayer was not sincere. Which I could be wrong, but I know that only we can speak for ourselves. Only we can know if we're saved or not.
 
Amen, Abigail.

Something Cody said in his first post struck me as being true. There's nothing wrong with young children coming to Christ, and it happens all the time in a sincere, real way. There are, however, instances when a child merely repeats a prayer and does not remember it or it makes no change in the child's life.

Some, like James Dobson, grasp God's love through the Holy Spirit. (James Dobson says he was saved at age 3.)

Amy Carmichael, the passionate missionary to China, was saved at an early age also; I think it was age 4.

These people remember their salvation experience clearly and sensed the Holy Spirit's work in them.

But a child repeating a prayer like an empty echo does not work.

Even my own daughter was saved a year ago and has borne much fruit since then! Initially, I thought she was saved at age 7. But she says she could not remember saying the prayer or why she said it. So at age 14, she surrendered her heart to Jesus:love:

Of course, she did not tell me this until months after receiving Christ. (She is not a trusting, open person and bottles things up inside.) But when she told me, I was greatly elated, but I was not that surprised....because I wondered why after all this time, she was starting to bear the fruits of the spirit (Gal. 5:22).

She was afraid to tell me, because she thought I would be angry with her, because I was the one who led her to Christ when she was seven. I told her that I was not angry; that I was very, very happy!!!

I think I was saved at a very young age too, just in the fact that I was aware that Jesus was truly alive and there for me. Yet my life continued to teach me some very hard lessons that I needed to learn. (I don't think a sinners prayer recited by someone else does much more than put a notch in someone's belt) Fruit bearing is like a cluster of grapes that shows the sweetness of it's wine when it's squeezed.
That's lovely that you and your daughter share that. Glory to God and pray that the both of you have sweet fellowship in Him.
 
I think we need to be very careful about telling folks if they simply said a prayer at some point in the past they are saved. The bible is clear that if you have Christ in your hear you will have fruits in your life.
Faith without works is dead!!!
I am not a big fan of alter calls because it uses emotion to get someone to go down an aisle - they pray a prayer and many times there is no follow for discipling! This would be like putting a plant in the ground and sticking a box over it so it doesnt get light or rain. It soon dies!

Sola Gloria Deo
 
i totally agree with u. i know plenty of ppl who think because they believe or was christianed that they are saved.

lou xxx
 
Only God can know if a person is truly saved because only He knows where that person's heart truly was at the moment the prayer was said and where it will be in the future. In my opinion,to be a true salvation prayer, calling on the name of the Lord (see Ro 10:13) has to be done with a depth of sincerity that only God and the person (if they are truly honest) can judge.

SLE
 
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Amen, brother SLE. God knows our hearts.

1 Samual 16:7
"But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for [the LORD seeth] not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." KJV
 
This is true but the bible also says we will be known by our fruits- do we produce good fruit do they see the fruits of the spirit in us alive and thriving. Do we reproduce (make new christians)?
 
Works and fruit.I wonder what the Hebrew definition is for that word.We should make a list of what works and fruits mean to us all in this thread.
To me right off hand,works and fruit would mean,souls,signs and wonders following,giving to the widows,orphans,lame,sick,like Jesus said.Lifting up Jesus to all we come in contact with.Being a good example for Jesus.And our reasonable sacrifice is presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice.
 
According to the Apostle Paul...

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.​
Galatians 5.22

And from 1 John 2.4
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.​
 
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