Faith - Perhaps the most mistaught topic

[KingJ]

Faith is defined by Google as:

1. Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
2. Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.

Faith is defined in scripture as:

Heb 1:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Summary:

Faith is a verb. A belief of the unseen being seen. Needs to be in someone or something.
____________________________________________________

Rant: The bible is clear that Christians must live by faith. Today many Christians are running around like headless chickens not sure if they have faith. Not sure what faith they need to have. There are so many scriptures speaking to faith. It is definitely tied at the hip to Christianity. But not many if any explain the different types of faith applicable to each instance.

I do not want to get too technical and speak on pillars of faith, levels of faith, or what not else list some compile.

I want to focus merely on teaching all to consider the exact type of faith scripture is alluding to when it mentions the word 'faith' and to consider the relevance and importance of said faith.

A few types of scripture based faith that come to mind are:

1. Faith in God's existence.
2. Faith in God's power.
3. Faith in God being good.
4. Faith in a man 'called Jesus' doing miracles.
5. Faith in Jesus being the Messiah / Lord of all.

These five are completely unrelated to one another. You can have one and not the other. You cannot say ''I have Christian faith'' if you cannot tick all 5 boxes. You cannot say you have 'saving faith' if you tick 1 and 2 but not 5.

1. Faith in God's existence - 0/10

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that and shudder.

This is hardly an achievement of faith. Your ability to believe God exists is of no value to God.

2. Faith in God's power - 1/10

Matt 17:20 Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you”

The more you read this scripture the more it seems as though Jesus is being a little sarcastic. Wow, well done, you believe God of the universe has the ability to heal you. Congrats. Who would have thought that.

3. Faith in God being good - 10/10.

Now this is real faith. It is in essence faith in God doing what is right. Doing what is necessary. It is a trust and a knowing that God has your back if you are one of His.

We see this most clearly with all the prophets.

Abraham trusted God to the point of sacrificing his son, Isaac. Gen 22.
Paul trusted God to keep him through multiple sufferings. 2 Corinthians 11:16-33.
David trusted God to help him with Goliath. 1 Sam 17.
Job trusted God knew best right up to the point of death. Job 6:12.
Elijah sieged for many days, kept faith in God rescuing him and all other faithful Jews. 2 Kings 6.

This is the faith Paul alludes to in Rom 1:17 The righteous shall live by faith.

This is the A-Z of faith a Christian needs. Faith a Christian lives in.

4. Faith in a man 'called Jesus' doing miracles - 1/10

Matt 13:58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

We hear often that we as Christians are not healed because we lack faith. No. The faith the people at time of Jesus had was 'faith in a man called Jesus' doing miracles. He had a good reputation. Many respected people gave testimonies. Faith was based on this and this alone. For a Christian, someone who knows Jesus as Lord, this is akin to 'faith in God's power'.

5. Faith in Jesus being the Messiah / Lord of all - 10/10.

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
Matt 16:16-17 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven

Every Christian must believe Jesus is Lord. This is a 10/10 essential faith. But, very important for us to grasp the fact that scripture says 'nobody' can call Jesus Lord except they be speaking by the Holy Spirit. IE It is impossible for any person to have faith / belief that a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago is the risen Messiah, God of the universe as per Isa 9:6. This is a faith that is given to us. See here for a further explanation What is a Christian and how do you become one?.
______________________________________________________

Summary:

When we become a Christian, we are given a measure of faith Rom 12:3, we hear God's voice John 10:27, He reaches out to us James 4:8, He makes Himself known to us / the Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are His Rom 8:16, we get a revelation of Jesus being Lord 1 Cor 12:3. The only 'faith' left for Christians to exercise is faith 'in God'.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Faith is defined by Google as:

1. Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
2. Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.

Faith is defined in scripture as:

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Summary:

Faith is a verb. A belief of the unseen being seen. Needs to be in someone or something.
____________________________________________________

Rant: The bible is clear that Christians must live by faith. Today many Christians are running around like headless chickens not sure if they have faith.

Consequently, they DON'T have faith. You have to HOLD ONTO, and defend "belief" (Intellectual assent), but Biblical FAITH Holds onto you. It has SUBSTANCE (Heb 11:1).

Dad Hagin always taught three Foundational scriptures:

What IS FAITH? - Heb 11:1
Where's FAITH come from? - Romans 10:17
WHow is FAITH applied? - Mark 11:22-24

Bottom line: If you don't KNOW that you're moving in FAITH - you're NOT.

Summary:

When we become a Christian, we are given a measure of faith Rom 12:3, we hear God's voice John 10:27, He reaches out to us James 4:8, He makes Himself known to us / the Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are His Rom 8:16, we get a revelation of Jesus being Lord 1 Cor 12:3. The only 'faith' left for Christians to exercise is faith 'in God'.

The PROBLEM with popular "Word of Faith" teachings is that there's no FAITH on the radar. Only truckloads of presumption.

 

[Victor VanHeerden]

Faith is defined by Google as:

1. Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
2. Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.

Faith is defined in scripture as:

Heb 1:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Summary:

Faith is a verb. A belief of the unseen being seen. Needs to be in someone or something.
____________________________________________________

Rant: The bible is clear that Christians must live by faith. Today many Christians are running around like headless chickens not sure if they have faith. Not sure what faith they need to have. There are so many scriptures speaking to faith. It is definitely tied at the hip to Christianity. But not many if any explain the different types of faith applicable to each instance.

I do not want to get too technical and speak on pillars of faith, levels of faith, or what not else list some compile.

I want to focus merely on teaching all to consider the exact type of faith scripture is alluding to when it mentions the word 'faith' and to consider the relevance and importance of said faith.

A few types of scripture based faith that come to mind are:

1. Faith in God's existence.
2. Faith in God's power.
3. Faith in God being good.
4. Faith in a man 'called Jesus' doing miracles.
5. Faith in Jesus being the Messiah / Lord of all.

These five are completely unrelated to one another. You can have one and not the other. You cannot say ''I have Christian faith'' if you cannot tick all 5 boxes. You cannot say you have 'saving faith' if you tick 1 and 2 but not 5.

1. Faith in God's existence - 0/10

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that and shudder.

This is hardly an achievement of faith. Your ability to believe God exists is of no value to God.

2. Faith in God's power - 1/10

Matt 17:20 Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you”

The more you read this scripture the more it seems as though Jesus is being a little sarcastic. Wow, well done, you believe God of the universe has the ability to heal you. Congrats. Who would have thought that.

3. Faith in God being good - 10/10.

Now this is real faith. It is in essence faith in God doing what is right. Doing what is necessary. It is a trust and a knowing that God has your back if you are one of His.

We see this most clearly with all the prophets.

Abraham trusted God to the point of sacrificing his son, Isaac. Gen 22.
Paul trusted God to keep him through multiple sufferings. 2 Corinthians 11:16-33.
David trusted God to help him with Goliath. 1 Sam 17.
Job trusted God knew best right up to the point of death. Job 6:12.
Elijah sieged for many days, kept faith in God rescuing him and all other faithful Jews. 2 Kings 6.

This is the faith Paul alludes to in Rom 1:17 The righteous shall live by faith.

This is the A-Z of faith a Christian needs. Faith a Christian lives in.

4. Faith in a man 'called Jesus' doing miracles - 1/10

Matt 13:58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

We hear often that we as Christians are not healed because we lack faith. No. The faith the people at time of Jesus had was 'faith in a man called Jesus' doing miracles. He had a good reputation. Many respected people gave testimonies. Faith was based on this and this alone. For a Christian, someone who knows Jesus as Lord, this is akin to 'faith in God's power'.

5. Faith in Jesus being the Messiah / Lord of all - 10/10.

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
Matt 16:16-17 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven

Every Christian must believe Jesus is Lord. This is a 10/10 essential faith. But, very important for us to grasp the fact that scripture says 'nobody' can call Jesus Lord except they be speaking by the Holy Spirit. IE It is impossible for any person to have faith / belief that a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago is the risen Messiah, God of the universe as per Isa 9:6. This is a faith that is given to us. See here for a further explanation What is a Christian and how do you become one?.
______________________________________________________

Summary:

When we become a Christian, we are given a measure of faith Rom 12:3, we hear God's voice John 10:27, He reaches out to us James 4:8, He makes Himself known to us / the Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are His Rom 8:16, we get a revelation of Jesus being Lord 1 Cor 12:3. The only 'faith' left for Christians to exercise is faith 'in God'.

The only faith truly relevant to a Christian.

Is faith "IN" God's Salvation plan.

Eph 2:8-9 - 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; 9it is not from works, so no one may boast. 10For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.

Grace Alone. Faith Alone. Grace alone means that God loves, forgives, and saves us not because of who we are or what we do, but because of the work of Christ.
Lose this faith in the Salvation plan and you lose your salvation. You might still have faith in God, in the Bible, in the Church doctrines etc.

But no faith "IN" God's Salvation plan - means Salvation Plan lost to you. You have decided to depart from it. Just like you decided to originally partake of it. God forces no one to believe or dis believe "IN" God's Salvation plan .

Free choice is free choice.

Thus OSAS doctrine is broken.

 

[KingJ]

The only faith truly relevant to a Christian.

Is faith "IN" God's Salvation plan.

Eph 2:8-9 - 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; 9it is not from works, so no one may boast. 10For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.

Grace Alone. Faith Alone. Grace alone means that God loves, forgives, and saves us not because of who we are or what we do, but because of the work of Christ.
Lose this faith in the Salvation plan and you lose your salvation. You might still have faith in God, in the Bible, in the Church doctrines etc.

But no faith "IN" God's Salvation plan - means Salvation Plan lost to you. You have decided to depart from it. Just like you decided to originally partake of it. God forces no one to believe or dis believe "IN" God's Salvation plan .

Free choice is free choice.

Thus OSAS doctrine is broken.

You are misreading the verse. It does not mention we need faith in a 'salvation plan'. It says ''For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God''. Both faith and saved is the gift of God.

Please note how I mentioned in the OP 1 Cor 12:3, nobody, can call Jesus Lord by themselves / their own faith. if they think they can, then Christian / saving faith is like faith in Santa Claus and nobody should be surprised if today we believe and tomorrow we don't.

You have been given many scriptures in the OSAS vs non-OSAS threads which you have not dealt with. Even in the OP, I quoted many verses that talk to our faith in Jesus not being simply a self mustered faith. It seems to be the norm with every other non-OSAS believer here too. You, like them are just repeatedly typing your belief and seemingly closed to correction.

False prophets should be terrified of misrepresenting God to the lost He died for. Undermining the cross and God's wisdom is not a trivial matter.

 

[Victor VanHeerden]

You are misreading the verse. It does not mention we need faith in a 'salvation plan'. It says ''For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God''. Both faith and saved is the gift of God.

Please note how I mentioned in the OP 1 Cor 12:3, nobody, can call Jesus Lord by themselves / their own faith. if they think they can, then Christian / saving faith is like faith in Santa Claus and nobody should be surprised if today we believe and tomorrow we don't.

You have been given many scriptures in the OSAS vs non-OSAS threads which you have not dealt with. Even in the OP, I quoted many verses that talk to our faith in Jesus not being simply a self mustered faith. It seems to be the norm with every other non-OSAS believer here too. You, like them are just repeatedly typing your belief and seemingly closed to correction.

False prophets should be terrified of misrepresenting God to the lost He died for. Undermining the cross and God's wisdom is not a trivial matter.

If you could mention some verses here. Huge walls of verses are easy to miss. However I feel that you are not getting to grips with the fact that salvation is a free gift and we have free will to accept or reject. Even if we accept we can also dump it. Like any gift. It is ours to wreck or cherish. Free will is free will. Born again children of the living God are not robots or machines that run on a software program. We are humans. Not Gods. Not Robots. Not machines. I chose to follow Christ or I choose to not. OSAS proposes that there is no difference or consequence between carnal Christians, baby Christians, weak Christians. Etc. It dumps all in one category and says you're all good and set for Eternal Security no matter your walk with God. It assumes that all Christians need is a legal standing with God and ignores the actual experiential walk that each Christian has. Pilgrims Progress is a good book to read. To broaden the views about the Christian walk.

 

[complete]

Hello @Victor VanHeerden,

You do not appear to be taking into account God's part in our salvation. Salvation is His work.

We hear the word of God concerning His Son, thereby the seed of faith enters, and takes root and grows. With each successive 'hearing' faith grows and grows. For the entrance of His Word brings light. Through the written Word, the Living Word finds entrance and brings light and life. It is The Word of God, both written and Living, which quickens us into life in the spirit. It washes us, tests and tries us, and feeds the faith that has been born in us.

God saves to the uttermost those who come unto Him for salvation, through faith in His Beloved Son, now risen and glorified and sat at His right hand. Christ Jesus our risen Lord, ever lives to interceded for us, as our Advocate with the Father, and the Spirit of God is our Advocate here. We are in good hands, Almighty hands. His workmanship!! The work that He has begun in us, He will continue to do until the day of Christ.

Praise His Holy Name.

 

[KingJ]

If you could mention some verses here. Huge walls of verses are easy to miss. However I feel that you are not getting to grips with the fact that salvation is a free gift and we have free will to accept or reject. Even if we accept we can also dump it. Like any gift. It is ours to wreck or cherish. Free will is free will. Born again children of the living God are not robots or machines that run on a software program. We are humans. Not Gods. Not Robots. Not machines. I chose to follow Christ or I choose to not. OSAS proposes that there is no difference or consequence between carnal Christians, baby Christians, weak Christians. Etc. It dumps all in one category and says you're all good and set for Eternal Security no matter your walk with God. It assumes that all Christians need is a legal standing with God and ignores the actual experiential walk that each Christian has. Pilgrims Progress is a good book to read. To broaden the views about the Christian walk.

When you understand what it takes to become a Christian you will understand that a Christian is someone God will never abandon and forget What is a Christian and how do you become one?.

The problem with your take on Christianity and every other non-OSAS believers is that you think of God being someone with human limitations. God is the only Being able to judge the heart properly Jer 17:9-12.

It is a major error to think God would graft into His family someone who was not sincere. Then it is equally erroneous to teach God would abandon those who met the criteria for salvation, merely because they 'lost their faith' in the 'unseen been seen'.

Non-OSAS believers do simply not 'get' how terrible their belief is. It insinuates the absolute worst of God. No good God would ever forget someone who laid their life down for Him / passed His judgement of their heart.

This is why martyrs in the tribulation get the crown of life Rev 2:10. Please meditate on that fact.