Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Faith healers

Although love is a fruit of the spirit,if neglected fruit will wither and rot.Fruit must be prperly cultivated and nourished,and fruit takes time to grow.
As believers we are supposed to remind our selves that this Chritian life is a growing process,and learning experience. 2 Peter 3:18.Titus 3:14.

Good stuff, Carlos.


If the Corinthian church had it all together concerning the issue of loving then why does Paul write a legnthy letter teaching them agape? 1Cor 13:3-8.

No one ever said that any church had it all together in any area.

We are always learning, growing, and changing.


Waiting on God is biblical and obsolutely necesesary.We are comanded to wait on God and not let our pride run ahead of Him.Romans 12:7. Psalm 27:14.
Any honest Christian will wait on God and in the quietness of his own heart will examine him self to see if his works are wrougth in agape or in his own selfish love. 2 Cor 13:5

Again, good stuff.

We are told examine ourselves and see if we be in the faith.


Faith healing is a hit and run ministry.
Caring for the sick and dying is a life long commitment.

Here's where I begin to disagree with you, not because you're wrong, but because this isn't the way it should be.

In Scripture, we find that it is right to care for the sick.

What we don't find in Scripture is healing being "a hit and run ministry," any more than we find that preaching the Gospel is hit and run. In Scripture, we find healing and the preaching of the Gospel go hand in hand.

We then find that healing is supposed to be a part of the ministry of the church, according to James 5. But healing is delegated to Wednesday evening, "Please pray for sick Martha," and the prayer mailing list, "Please pray for the following sick people."

In James, the sick are told to call for the elders of the church, and that the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well. Notice, there are no exemptions in this passage.


Bodily healing is temporal.
The preaching of the gospel to receptive hearts is eternal.

Yes, bodily healing is temporal, and salvation of the spirit is eternal. But both are scriptural, and in Scripture, both are given importance throughout the Old and New Testaments.


Our times require an urgent call to preach the gospel of Christ.

You realize, don't you, that whenever Jesus commissioned anyone to preach the Gospel, He also commissioned and commanded them to heal the sick.

We cannot separate the two.
 
In Scripture, we find healing and the preaching of the Gospel go hand in hand.

You realize, don't you, that whenever Jesus commissioned anyone to preach the Gospel, He also commissioned and commanded them to heal the sick.

We cannot separate the two.

Amen and amen.
 
I know you never said the church had it all together,Im just trying to point out how we should search out our own selves to make sure we are in the agape that Paul refers to 1 Cor 13. If God is taking pleasure in using you or any one else to pray for healing well praise His name.
Im in no way trying to say that prayer for healing is wrong.
After all God's will be done.
Simply put what we need is decernment and prayer for God's people that they will not fall prey to counterfit healers.I stressed the impotance of preaching the gospel,becuase once we get it rigth here first then all other gifts will flow through the power of the spirit.

If prayer for healing is one of your gifts,then please pray for me.
 
Last edited:
Simply put what we need is decernment and prayer for God's people that they will not fall prey to counterfit healers.I stressed the impotance of preaching the gospel,becuase once we get it rigth here first then all other gifts will flow through the power of the spirit.

You're right. People do need discernment.

We just can't throw the real out with the counterfeit.

If prayer for healing is one of your gifts,then please pray for me.

If you read what I wrote above, you'll see that I don't believe one needs a gift of healing. All churches should be ministering healing.

If you're sick, obey the Word, and call for the elders of the church. Just make sure they know how to pray the prayer of faith.
 
Throughout the Gospels and Acts, time after time we read, "and they were all healed" or "and they healed them all." That should be the norm in the church today, but we prefer Timothy, Trophimus, and maybe Paul's sicknesses over Christ's healings.

The problem with this belief, as I see it, is that it takes God's sovereign will out of the picture and reduces divine healing to mere formulas.

"And the Lord said, 'I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you (Moses) and I will proclaim my name, THE LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." (Ex 33:19 NIV)

My son died of liver disease in August of 2007. I began to pray and marshal prayer warriors to join me in praying for his salvation and his hrealing in 2002 (when his transplanted liver started to show signs of failing). He got saved about half an hour before God called him home.Why God didn't heal him on earth I don't know. But this I do know: He's healed now and he's in heaven and I'll see him when I get there.

SLE

.
 
The problem with this belief, as I see it, is that it takes God's sovereign will out of the picture and reduces divine healing to mere formulas.

"And the Lord said, 'I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you (Moses) and I will proclaim my name, THE LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." (Ex 33:19 NIV)

My son died of liver disease in August of 2007.

Hi Ed,

I'm sorry to hear about your son. I've also lost relatives and friends, and know a number of others who have lost relatives, including children and spouses, after months of prayer by a large number of people.

But I believe the Bible shows us God's will regarding healing, in the same manner that it shows us His will regarding salvation. I hate to sound callous, especially when I'm truly grieved, but I believe the main reason people don't get healed is that there is so little power within the church.

Let's face it, how many people do you know that get constant, regular answers to prayer. If you know just one person, you're better off than most Christians (unless you're involved in a faith mission or ministry). When we get a direct answer to prayer, it shocks us.

Yet, when someone gets sick, what do we do? We get a bunch of people who don't believe it's God's will to heal all the sick all the time to pray for someone's healing. So we end up with a bunch of, "Oh, Lord, if it be Your will...and if not..." Most folks don't have faith to get a sick person well, so even while praying they put in an escape clause. When the person dies, we just say, "It was God's will!" Who is God supposed to answer? The person that says, "Heal the sick," or the one that says, "Help them die with peace"?

Please, please forgive me for sounding so harsh in light of the loss of your son. I'm not aiming anything toward you or those who prayed for your son. I'm speaking about the church in general, including the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches.

I know that there's been a lot of abuse, and a lot of lies by various camps, but we need to go back to what the Bible says. And the norm throughout Scripture is "...and all were healed." No where in Scripture do we find that was to change at some later date.
 
Hi Ed,

But I believe the Bible shows us God's will regarding healing, in the same manner that it shows us His will regarding salvation. I hate to sound callous, especially when I'm truly grieved, but I believe the main reason people don't get healed is that there is so little power within the church.

Oboy, I think you right, We need to start looking for the answers, by looking and studying the scriptures. It's God's written Word to mankind. I think people/man complicates things too much. We need to get back to the simplicity of God's Written word. Take it, for what's written, instead of adding to it and if we as mankind don't know the answers, we must wait.

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

We need to go back to His Words and His Words only. Let's follow by the examples of Jesus and the apostles and how they taught. We as humans, by our human nature, just love adding the odd word or too, here or there to beef things up and to make things interesting.

At this present time, so many people are getting sick of these awful diseases that pollute our planet.

I have read various opinions of other believers on healing, and I think many factors are involved, to why some people are healed and others are not!

Most importantly is too examine ourselves and to know what God and Jesus has done for us/mankind and believe it. The answers are in God's Words, I just know they are there!

Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

1Co 11:28 With this in mind, individuals must determine whether what they are doing is proper when they eat the bread and drink from the cup.
1Co 11:29 Anyone who eats and drinks is eating and drinking a judgment against himself when he doesn't recognize the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30 This is the reason why many of you are weak and sick and quite a number of you have died.


Are we not recognizing the Lord's body?

I have two articles by different believers, which I will put up in different posts, as they are quite long.
 
Last edited:
What does the Bible really say about healing?
Truth or Tradition

FAQ: I have heard many Christians say that if a sick person has enough faith, God will always heal him, and that if one does not get healed, it is because he didn’t have enough faith. Others I’ve talked to aren’t sure, but seem to think that healing is not available today. And some say that God is the one who sends sickness to make us humble. Personally, I’m sick of the confusion. What does the Bible really say about healing?

The question you have asked is one to which virtually every Christian wants an answer, and, of course, the Word of God is the only place to find answers. This is a huge subject about which many books have been written, and we cannot begin to cover all the pertinent verses in this brief article. We can, however, show you liberating truth from the Bible that should go a long way toward eliminating your current confusion. To handle this subject, it is probably best to break it down into a series of questions.

Where did sickness, disease, and death originate, and were they part of God’s plan?

There are four main arguments for why these are not a part of God’s plan. The first is that the opening three chapters of Genesis clearly show that God’s original intent was for perfect people to live forever on a perfect earth. Everything God made was “very good” (Gen. 1:31), and neither sickness nor death (which is total sickness) was ever meant to be a part of the picture. It came only when Adam sinned. Not only did mankind suffer as a result of Adam’s sin, but also the entire world has since been held in “bondage to decay” (Rom. 8:21).

Rom 8:20-21
(20) Creation was subjected to frustration but not by its own choice. The one who subjected it to frustration did so in the hope
(21) that it would also be set free from slavery to decay in order to share the glorious freedom that the children of God will have.


Even plants and animals get sick and die prematurely.

Second, the Bible says that, “God is love” (1 John 4:16). Think about that. We are all loving at times, but God is love, which means that by His very nature and unchanging character, it is impossible for Him to think, say, or do anything that is not totally loving. Making people sick to humble them is not being loving.

Third, God created the human body with an amazing, even miraculous, ability to heal itself. Why would He do that if He were also the author of sickness and death? Why would He want to make people sick if their bodies would keep healing themselves? He would be working against Himself. There are some difficult verses in the Old Testament that seem to say that God sent diseases, plagues, etc., but we believe that this can be understood as people bringing upon themselves the consequences of their own sin and unbelief. [For a thorough biblical answer to the problem of evil, sin, and suffering, and answers to these questions raised by verses in the Old Testament, we recommend our book, Don’t Blame God: A Biblical Answer to the Problem of Evil, Sin, and Suffering.]

Finally, Jesus always did the will of God, and he never made anyone sick. In fact, he healed “...all that were oppressed of the devil...” (Acts 10:38-KJV). Therefore, God’s will must also be to heal people. Colossians 1:15 says that Jesus is the “…image of the invisible God…,” meaning that Jesus always said and did what his Father wanted him to, and he became the reflection of his Father’s glory. Thus he could say: “…Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father...” (John 14:9), meaning that he flawlessly represented God to the world in a tangible, touchable way.

If sickness and death are not part of God’s plan for mankind, why are they rampant? Isn’t God in control of these things?

No, He isn’t (1 John 5:19).

1Jo 5:19
(19) We know that we are from God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.


First, it is essential to understand that God gave humans complete and genuine free will. Adam chose to sin, and thus brought disease, death, and destruction into the world. That is not God’s fault. The Fall unleashed a host of germs and viruses that were not part of God’s original plan.

Second, human beings have not lived in accordance with God’s laws. He gave many laws to Moses pertaining to cleanliness and healthful practices, which, if followed, ensured the health of the people. Also, God gave them food laws that helped protect them from disease.

Third, modern man has added to food innumerable chemicals, hormones, pesticides, etc., that are essentially toxic to the human body. These chemicals produce illnesses of all kinds. Modern farming techniques have also depleted the soil of substances that the body needs for health, and, unless people take a mineral supplement, they can become malnourished and diseased. Vitamins contained in healthful food are often lost in the process of getting to market, or later on in the cooking process. Vitamin deficiencies are responsible for many illness and unhealthy conditions. Plus, many Western folks eat way too much, bringing on themselves all manner of health problems. [For further study read Nutrition and Healing.]

Fourth, most people are often anxious, afraid, angry, bitter, etc., and such attitudes do bad things to the human body, even as happiness acts like a medicine. People also deliberately ingest things that are not healthy, like drugs, or are the victim of environmental toxins of which they are unaware.

What steps, if any, has God taken to bring about healing for mankind?

First, “He sent his word, and healed them…” (Ps. 107:20-KJV). God’s Word heals when it is received, understood, and believed.

Second, He sent the Living Word, Jesus Christ, in whom is complete healing.

Luke 4:18 and 19 (KJV)
(18) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
(19) To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.


Not only did Jesus heal those who came to him with faith, he also empowered and instructed his disciples to do likewise:

Matthew 10:1
He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.


God anointed Jesus with holy spirit power for his mission on earth, and, since his exaltation as “Lord,” Jesus has anointed each person who believes in him with the same gift of holy spirit. The Lord Jesus is still highly invested in energizing signs, miracles, and wonders, because they are, if you will, part of his advertising campaign. Every Christian now has the same power and authority to heal that Jesus had, and those in the first century Church knew and believed that. For example:

Acts 28:8 and 9 (KJV)
(8) And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.
(9) So when this was done, others also, which had diseases in the island, came, and were healed:


One of the manifestations of the spirit Christians can utilize is “gifts of healing,” and some are gifted to be “workers of miracles,” which we believe includes miraculous healing. Clearly, God has provided for healing in many ways.

Then why don’t we see more healing occurring in the Church today?

The simple answer is usually a lack of faith, but there is a lot more to healing than merely faith. Although we do see some miraculous healings, there are a number of factors that affect faith and healing that we need to explore. One of them is attitude. Too often people approach the subject of healing with an attitude that limits their trust in God.

There is a foundational distinction in the area of healing that we should all understand in order to adopt the right attitude. We know that health and wholeness is God’s will, and that He has empowered us to heal via the holy spirit, but that does not mean that healing is a right, or something that we can demand or “claim,” as some teach. When properly understood, we believe that Scripture reveals that healing is a gift that is received by faith. In the United States we have certain “rights” guaranteed us by our constitution. We have the right to free speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion, and these rights are something we can demand. As sons of God, we also have certain rights. Unlike a right, a gift is not something that one can demand. We see that demonstrated in the Gospels in the ministry of Jesus Christ. No one came to Jesus and demanded to be healed. They asked for Jesus to heal them. A gift is given voluntarily, without payment, and is usually presented to the recipient to show favor. Redemption, salvation, and eternal life are some of the gifts God has given us because of His great mercy and grace. He is merciful because He has withheld from us what we truly deserve for our sins, which is death, and His gifts demonstrate His unmerited favor towards us. Healing is one of those precious gifts. We didn’t earn it and we don’t deserve it. Whenever and wherever healing occurs, it is always because of God’s mercy and grace. Note how David associated healing with God’s mercy.

Psalm 41:3 and 4
(3) The Lord will sustain him on his sickbed and restore him from his bed of illness.
(4) I said, “O Lord, have mercy on me; heal me, for I have sinned against you.”


The Apostle Paul also recognized that healing was a result of God’s mercy.

Philippians 2:26 and 27
(26) For he [Epaphroditus] longs for all of you and is distressed because you heard he was ill.
(27) Indeed he was ill, and almost died. But God had mercy on him, and not on him only but also on me, to spare me sorrow upon sorrow. (See also Matt. 17:14 and 15, 20:30-31; Mark 5:18 and 19, 10:46 and 47; Heb. 4:16-5:1; James 5:11; Isa. 58:6-8.)


What is the importance of understanding healing as a gift and not a right?

It is important first because of the difference between truth and error, and because only truth sets us free (John 8:32). To the degree that we have error we also have bondage, and wrong teaching always produces wrong results. Too much of what passes for “Christian” teaching today comes from tradition and culture rather than from God’s Word.

In America, we tend to think in terms of rights and entitlement, but in the biblical culture people thought in terms of patronage. There were serious limitations of goods and services, and if you were to get what you needed, you often had to depend upon the generosity of a patron, whether a landowner, a wealthy person, or an emperor. Analogous to that cultural paradigm, God is a generous patron to whom we can confidently look for the satisfaction of a need, not by “claiming a right,” but by virtue of His generosity and goodness. We believe this is how the first-century Christians viewed healing. In God and Jesus Christ we have the wonderful provision of physical healing, which was first demonstrated by Jesus and then by his followers. We trust our heavenly Father and our risen Lord for healing, and give them the glory. If it were a right, we could congratulate ourselves for asserting our rights, and that is not true faith/trust.

When we have a right to something, we can, and generally should, assert that right. But asserting or demanding something to which we do not have a right carries with it an element of arrogance, an attitude God resists (Prov. 3:34, 15:25, 21:4). When the Old Testament saints came and offered a sacrifice to God, they had no absolute assurance that God was going to grant their request. On the contrary, the tension of not knowing if your sacrifice was acceptable actually engendered humility, which is something He requires when He gives grace. Though Christ’s atonement did make many things available to us, we receive these by trust and confident expectation in the Generous One, not by asserting our rights. The difference in attitude is subtle, but is the difference between biblical faith and arrogant presumption. “…God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble” (James 4:6).

God desires mercy, not sacrifice (Hosea 6:6). The Israelites were approaching Him with the attitude that they merely had to comply with the outward, sacrificial requirements of the Law. They wrongly focused on the sacrifice and not on the heart, that is, the relationship that God desired to have with them in their coming to Him as He prescribed. Our God is not a vending machine, nor is He one merely transacting business with us. Our Father desires an intimate relationship with each of His children. He gives to us in order to bless us and to engender joy, thanksgiving, and more trust in return on our part. “Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need” (Heb. 4:16-KJV).

From: Truth or Tradition Site
 
I do happen to have an illness That has been prayed for,and I do enjoy praying with my brothers after sevice and before service,and before work day begins ,and through out my work day I quietly meditate on God.I believe God is able to heal me one hundred percent,but it wont happen on your or my time, or any army of faith healers time.All things come in God's time.Genuine faith has nothing to do with having faith in your own faith.True faith is having faith in Jesus and him alone,and then and only then will we be able to boldly say.Though he slay me,yet will I trust in him:Job 13:15.
Genuine faith can not be measured by how much health or wealth our praying has produced.Guenuine faith finds joy ,finds hope not in our cercumstances but in Him that loves us,And he has said he will never leave me nor forsake me ,my eternal assurance in Him is what produces my hope and joy in the holy ghost Philippians 4:11. Hebrews 13:5.

When Approaching the master's table we shouldnt come just because of what is at the table,our focus should be to worship He who is at the head of the table.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1.
For we are saved by hope:but hope that is seen is not hope:for what a man seeth,why doth he yet hope for?
But if we hope for that we see not,then do we with patience wait for it.
Romans 8:24-25.

Faith is enduring and waiting patiently and not just getting every one of our petitions answered.

These all died in faith,not having receaved the promises,but having seen them afar off,and were persuaded of them,and embraced them,and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
And truely if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out,they might have had opportunity to have returned.
But now they desire a better country,that is, a heavenly:wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God:for he hath prepared for them a city.
Hebrews 11:13-16.
Hebrews 11:10.For he looked for a city which hath foundations,whose builder and maker is God.

Just because a person is not healed when prayed for does not mean he has no faith.
That is why faith healing could be potentialy dangerous to those who are hurting because it attacks those who are sick by telling them the reason for their sickness is their lack of faith in faith.

That every one will not be healed of bodily illnesses is evident through out the pages of scripture,and history has proven that some of God's best men and women have died of horrible illness but yet they withstood the test of faith.
 
Last edited:
That is why faith healing could be potentialy dangerous to those who are hurting because it attacks those who are sick by telling them the reason for their sickness is their lack of faith in faith.

No, sir. No, sir. No, sir.

This lie only comes by those who abuse, or use false teaching.

In Scripture, no one to my knowledge was ever healed in their home by their own prayers and faith. The sick ALWAYS went to someone who could get them healed.

On rare occasions, a man who could heal the sick went to the one who was sick, but that was rare.

The majority of the times, the sick went to someone else.

This means that the only faith required of the sick person is to go to such a person, or to call for the elders of the church to come to him. It is then the responsibility of those doing the healing to get the sick person healed.

If you call for the elders of the church to come and anoint you, and you do not get healed, it is not your fault that you remain sick. It is the fault of the elders for not praying the prayer of faith.

I realize that some groups have taught lies, and it has destroyed many who were sick. We need to combat the lies with the truth, and maybe we'll see more people healed.


That every one will not be healed of bodily illnesses is evident through out the pages of scripture,and history has proven that some of God's best men and women have died of horrible illness but yet they withstood the test of faith.

Elisha died with the sickness when he was over 80 years old.

Timothy had frequent illnesses that were helped or healed by drinking wine. Anyone who has ever lived in a country with unsanitary standards has experienced these illnesses.

Paul left Trophimus sick in Miletus. We have no idea if Trophimus was later healed or not.

Paul suffered times of illnesses, but there's no indication that they were permanent, and there seems to be signs pointing to the fact that they were not permanent.

There were others who died of sickness because of God's judgment on their lives.

Some of those who failed to recognize the body of the Lord in the Lord's Supper fell sick and died.

To my knowledge, these are the only people that remained sick in Scripture. The overall teaching of Scripture is that God heals the sick.

This should be our standard. We need the Bible to interpret our experiences, not our experiences to interpret the Bible.

I know that I sound extremely harsh and cruel. Please understand that it is not directed toward you, but directed toward my own life and the Church as a whole.

Praise God that there is a growing army of believers who understand what the Bible teaches about healing, and they are seeing the sick healed.

I pray that I, too, will see more sick healed, and I pray that not only will you be healed, but that you'll be used to heal others.

God bless.
 
If you call for the elders of the church to come and anoint you, and you do not get healed, it is not your fault that you remain sick. It is the fault of the elders for not praying the prayer of faith.

Back this up with Scripture.
 
The earth is cursed and all on it are still under the curse of physical death. This will not change until this world becomes His throne. The evidence for this is the 100% fatality rate of death and the sicknesses that afflict every form of life.

Paul raised the dead yet Timothy had stomach ailments he did not cure. Elijah's bones raised a dead man yet he himself died of infirmity. Jesus healed one man at the pool of Bethesda though many were there.

God heals.
God uses people to heal.

Sometimes there is a miraculous healing.
Sometimes He uses Doctors and or natural methods (which He
created).
Some times He walks with us through our trials and infirmities (as He did with Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:7-9).
Sometimes He takes us home- this is the ultimate healing.

This life is but a vapor and life with Him eternal.
 
Back this up with Scripture.

Sure.

James 5:14 says,

"Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well."

Who does the praying, the sick person or the elders?

The elders are the ones responsible to pray the prayer of faith. If they do not, then they are the ones responsible for not getting the sick person well.

No where in Scripture do we ever find it being the sick person's fault for not getting healed. But there are examples of Jesus rebuking the apostles for not having enough faith to get the sick healed (i.e., the boy with seizures).
 
What does the Bible really say about healing?
Truth or Tradition


Where did sickness, disease, and death originate, and were they part of God’s plan?

There are four main arguments for why these are not a part of God’s plan. The first is that the opening three chapters of Genesis clearly show that God’s original intent was for perfect people to live forever on a perfect earth. Everything God made was “very good” (Gen. 1:31), and neither sickness nor death (which is total sickness) was ever meant to be a part of the picture. It came only when Adam sinned. Not only did mankind suffer as a result of Adam’s sin, but also the entire world has since been held in “bondage to decay” (Rom. 8:21).

After they sinned God made coats of skin (either from a sheep or goat) to clothe Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:21. This was the first physical death to enter the world. So here would be the first bacteria from the body decaying.
 
After they sinned God made coats of skin (either from a sheep or goat) to clothe Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:21. This was the first physical death to enter the world. So here would be the first bacteria from the body decaying.

That was after the Fall, not before. Death actually came at the moment of sin, but at the death of an animal.
 
Does God always heal? equip.org/articles/does-God-always-heal


Carlos,

There are many arguments pro and con regarding God's will to heal, including many others who interpret Isaiah 53 differently than the author you pointed us to.

IMHO, Isaiah 53 doesn't speak of "either...or...," but "both...and..." There is forgiveness of sins because of Christ's substitution, but there is also physical healing because of Christ's substitution.

What the author failed to mention is that when Isaiah is quoted by Peter, the word Peter used is iaomai, which according to Strong's means, "to cure (literally or figuratively): - heal, make whole."

Thayer's adds spiritual healing by saying, "2a) to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one’s) salvation."

The question we need to ask is "What does Scripture teach?"

Iaomai is used 29 times in the New Testament. In every instance except the following, it means physical healing. The three possible exceptions are the following:

Heb 12:13, "And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed."

The analogy, though speaking of spiritual things, is still referring to physical things ("feet....lame...healed").

Mat 13:15, "For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

Gill says, "...or, as in Mark, 'and their sins should be forgiven them'; for healing of diseases, and forgiveness of sins, are, in Scripture language, one and the same thing..." but he and most believe that this passage refers to forgiveness of sins.

If lined up with the rest of Scripture -- Psalm 103:3, Luke 5, Isaiah 53, James 5, etc. -- healing and salvation go hand in hand.

Luke 4:18-19, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord."

Then He immediately relates it physical healing..."Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country."

Even the word used in Isaiah 53, râphâ', it is split nearly 50/50 for physical and spiritual healing.

Your author shows a clear despising of Scripture when he says,

It seems to us that one who needs to conceive of Jesus bearing all the cancer and leprosy in the world in order to understand the extent of His agony has an inadequate appreciation of the infinite weight and horror that was involved in Christ’s taking upon Himself the sins of the world. The concept of a dual work on the cross, Christ’s bearing our sins and sickness, is a serious misapplication of Scripture. Sickness is only one of the many ultimate effects of man’s sin. Jesus took the cause of all of our sufferings, sin, upon Himself at the cross in order to rid us ultimately of all of its effects. It is illogical to affirm that for any or all of the effects to be abolished it would be necessary for Him to bear any one of the effects (such as sickness) along with the cause.

By dealing with the cause (sin) He sufficiently dealt with all of its effects. Jesus took care of the problem of sickness by bearing our sins on the tree. It was not necessary for Him to bear our sicknesses for us to be healed.

Isaiah 53:4 clearly teaches us that Christ did in fact bear our sicknesses:

(NIV) "Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted."

(YLT) "Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, And our pains--he hath carried them..."

(NET) "But he lifted up our illnesses, he carried our pain..."

(LITV) "Surely He has borne our sicknesses, and He carried our pain..."

Matthew then backs this up when quoting Isaiah 53:4, "This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: 'He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases.'"

What your author tries to do is relate it to Christ's earthly ministry. What your author fails to take into account is that the rest of Isaiah 53:4 says, "...yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted." When would we consider Jesus stricken by God, smitten by Him, and afflicted? During His earthly ministry, or when He was beaten and nailed to the cross?

So, instead of using other authors to prove our point, why don't we look at Scripture for ourselves and find out what it means.
 
The earth is cursed and all on it are still under the curse of physical death. This will not change until this world becomes His throne. The evidence for this is the 100% fatality rate of death and the sicknesses that afflict every form of life.

We aren't talking about death and dying. We know that all die.

Nor are we talking about divine HEALTH. The Bible never says anything about perpetual health. It only talks about when we get sick, God can (will?) heal us.


Sometimes He uses Doctors and or natural methods (which He
created).

I'm not saying anything bad about doctors, because when my family gets sick, we also go to doctors, but have you considered what the Bible says about physicians?

2Ch 16:12 In the thirty-ninth year of his reign Asa was afflicted with a disease in his feet. Though his disease was severe, even in his illness he did not seek help from the LORD , but only from the physicians.

Mark 5:26 She had suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had, yet instead of getting better she grew worse.

Sometimes, we just need to turn to God and let Him heal us.


Some times He walks with us through our trials and infirmities (as He did with Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:7-9).

When this is the case, this person should not seek medical treatment, or in anyway seek to be healed, otherwise he will be fighting the will of God.

Scary.
 
To all,

Thank you so much for asking such good questions and making such good points.

It's a joy to be able to discuss the Word of God with each of you.

oboy
 
James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.



Greetings,



O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

This only would I learn of you,

Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Galatians 3:1-9


Bless you ....><>



Br. Bear




Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that He had said before,

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
By a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh;
And having an high priest over the house of God;
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for He is faithful that promised;)
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Hebrews 10:15-25
 
Back
Top